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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Ackwell View Post
    What is the Sannins Genjutsu defense like?

    Well, the Databook states that Orochimaru is good in Genjutsu.
    In fact, when Itachi imobilized him, Orochimaru was already in the middle of doing a "Kai", which would cancel the Genjutsu, that is before Itachi sliced off his hand.

    Immediately after the slicing of the hand, it grew back by the way, that was shown off pannel. Cause Orochimaru can regrow limbs.

    Jiraiya on the other hand... Said specifically that he wasn't great at Genjutsu.
    The toad song is something ma and pa can only do, so in a sense, it's a summoning Genjutsu. One in which Jiraiya has to wait for them to Harmonize before doing any damage to an opponent.

    But... What about his Genjutsu defense?

    Growing up and being in the Sannin team, I think its safe to assume he didn't get any "special" anti Sharingan genjutsu training. I'm talking about BASE Sharingan Genjutsu, no Mangekyou techniques.

    So I still don't understand where people get the notion that Jiraiya would be able to pwn Itachi. It just DOESN'T make sense.

    Itachi is the God of Genjutsu.

    He has you in a Genjutsu before you even know.
    The thing with Itachis genjutsu... He doesn't make anything seem out of the ordinary. Much like Sasuke was beginning to do. He doesn't make it obvious that you're in a Genjutsu.

    Sasuke on the other hand, since he had a Sharingan, could see through it, but Jiraiya didn't have the Sharingan.
    Nor did Orochimaru.
    Nor did Deidara.

    Hence why they were defeated so easily.
    BASE Sharingan Genjutsu defeated Orochimaru and Deidara.

    So again I ask you... What was it about Jiraiya that would deem him "Different" than Orochimaru and Deidara in terms of Genjutsu defense?

    The answer is nothing.

    There is nothing about Jiraiya that would allow him to defend against it.
    Same shit would happen.

    The fact that Jiraiya couldn't even defeat Orochimaru and bring him back to the village, suggests that Jiraiya couldn't defeat his old friend. This is cannon. Nowhere does it state who is stronger. Instead, Kish pits Orochimaru up against the king of Genjutsu, and overall the best Uchiha in my opinion, and this gives fans of Jiraiya a boner because they view Orochimaru as being weak. Weak because he was defeated by UCHIHA ITACHI of all people.

    Who wouldn't lose to this guy?

    Fuck. He didn't even wanna kill his brother.
    I don't think the guy ever even ONCE, took a punch or kick to the body.

    So I ask you.... Using simple logic.

    If Jiraiya couldn't defeat Orochimaru....

    And Orochimaru was easily defeated with Base Sharingan Genjutsu....As well as Deidara....

    What makes Jiraiya so special that he would be any different? Especially when he can't even beat Orochimaru?

    Jiraiya is a self proclaimed failure.
    He admits how sad his life has been. How HE never ammounted to much.
    Didn't finish Senjutsu.
    Gave up on his friend.
    Wasn't there for his student.
    Wasn't there for his teacher.
    Couldn't suck on Tsunades Titties.
    Walked away from the Rinnegan and failed the orphans.

    Jesus....

    Yet.... Out of all those failures and mistakes....

    People believe he could beat Itachi.

    I just don't fucking get it.

    Itachi was a runnaway Shinobi of Konoha, surely if they wanted to track him down and find him, they could of sent Jiraiya no?

    Well they didn't. Do you wanna know why?

    Cause Jiraiya wouldn't have a fucking chance in hell.
    He'd be in a Sharingan Genjutsu before he even got a look at Itachi.

    That's just the fuckin end of it.

    To top it off, Itachis POTENTIAL was insurmountable. Inpassable.
    If he took his brothers eyes, he would make Jiraiya look like a Genin.

    That's just absolute fact.
    As where, Jiraiya had already reached his peak. Failed at Senjutsu, and was only getting older. And as we know... Aging = Weakness.

    Something Orochimaru took care of already.
    Aging is pointless.
    Jiraiya would only get weaker and weaker as time went by.

    Itachi > Jiraiya without a shadow of a doubt.
    the one about jiraiya not have base of genjutsu counter training, i think u are wrong about that if he didn't knw the basics how was he able to teach naruto about how to break out of genjutsu even though it didn't work in naruto's case but am sure if jiraiya did that he will def break out of itachi's genjutsu, besides i don't really think he failed at senjutsu, the main point of that training is to learn how to gather natural energy around you to fight sure he turned into a toad a bit but still he got the main deal right, third just because one opponent is good at genjutsu doesn't really determine the outcome of the battle and because u think he couldn't bring back orochimaru or defeat him means he couldn't defeat itachi or stay on par with him that was a long time ago and jiraiya is stronger now, u are really mistaken mate, even itachi said that he couldn't defeat him in one of the mangas i forgot which one, also using that genjutsu so much and stuff is itachi's weakness because it drains his chakra, and jiraiya's got all the natural energy around him which is limitless compared to itachi and another thing if jiraiya went all senjutsu on itachi the genjutsu could damage itachi greatly. so am going with either itach=jiraiya or jiraiya>itachi thats my story and am sticking with it


    Know his name: Jiraiya Sama of the legendary Sannin
    May he rest in peace and he will be sorely missed, the strongest out of all the three

  2. #82
    ^^ very true, I mean if not being able to bring back a lost comrade makes you weak then the First Hokage was a real weakling because he couldn't bring back Madara...right?
    I am an artist, and my medium is death. I'm about to create my masterpiece :s



    Fan of the Rasengan Doujutsu theory, even though it's dead. Although, he does have the special Uzumaki clan blood.

    Quote Originally Posted by thorofasgard13 View Post
    Because he's the hero the shinobi world deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. Naruto.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Ackwell View Post
    Why did he retreat?

    Same reason he slayed the Clan....

    To keep Konoha and the Will of Fire Alive and Strong.

    It was PROVED by Madara, that Itachi was actually a Hero of Konoha.
    Betrayed his own clan to protect Konoha and avoid a war.
    Wanted Sasuke to be viewed as a Hero.

    Thus... If you truly analyze the character and the guy Itachi really was, it proves he would NEVER want to harm Jiraiya, since that would only hurt Konoha, the very village he sacrificed his life for.

    Makes no sense. Battling Jiraiya would only give Kisame a boner, and Kisame would attack Konoha with waves of destruction.

    Why would Itachi want that?

    So, he lied to Kisame, and made Jiraiya seem FAR STRONGER than he really was. Kisame listened to Itachi, and believed him.

    By retreating, Itachi was actually SAVING Jiraiya, and Konoha as well, without making it seem like he was a good guy.

    Tricky Guy.

    If Itachi wanted to, he could of Amaterasu'd the entire village, but you heard him, they didn't go to Konoha to start a war.

    Itachi was there because of Sasuke.

    So this running away bullshit is seriously pathetic.
    i don't get the post but i don't really think its about saving jiraya, if u really think about it knowing senjutsu at the time jiraiya could take on kisame, sure he has a huge chakra but as he uses it, his chakra goes down all jiraya has to go is gather natural energy


    Know his name: Jiraiya Sama of the legendary Sannin
    May he rest in peace and he will be sorely missed, the strongest out of all the three

  4. #84
    Heroes Don't Hav Red Eyes Immortal-JyNxX's Avatar
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    To say Genjutsu = victory over J-Man is to say Kureni can beat'em!

  5. #85
    Mind f*cked beyond repair Stev3child's Avatar
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    I think Genjutsu is really overratted. But in the case of Tsuki... which is arguably the ultimate Genjutsu is a different matter.

    But Tsukiyomi has not been explored deep enough to actually analize its properties to draw the conclusion that there is no way of escaping it. We can only go on what was displayed by Itachi.

  6. #86
    Heroes Don't Hav Red Eyes Immortal-JyNxX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve3child View Post
    I think Genjutsu is really overratted. But in the case of Tsuki... which is arguably the ultimate Genjutsu is a different matter.

    But Tsukiyomi has not been explored deep enough to actually analize its properties to draw the conclusion that there is no way of escaping it. We can only go on what was displayed by Itachi.
    Its been beaten before. And I say the Toad Song was much better than Tsuki...

  7. #87
    C'mon Son! OrochiKakaRiya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal-JyNxX View Post
    Its been beaten before. And I say the Toad Song was much better than Tsuki...
    hmmm thats a tough one, both are ultimate forms of genjutsu, but I'd have to go with the toad song as well. The only draw back is that you have to hide until the frogs get their harmony right, but its a hell of a genjutsu when it happens.
    Beware of the Kyubii


    Stev3child - The biggest pussy of them all is rokudaime sennin though. If he was a real man, he wouldn't have relied on hax god-given powers to seal the Jyubi. He would have suplexed that bitch and ripped each tail from the beast one by one with his bare hands.

  8. #88
    Mind f*cked beyond repair Stev3child's Avatar
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    The toad song is less versatile than tsuki imo. But it really comes down to the effect. Tsuki rapes your mind so...yea XD

  9. #89
    Heroes Don't Hav Red Eyes Immortal-JyNxX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve3child View Post
    The toad song is less versatile than tsuki imo. But it really comes down to the effect. Tsuki rapes your mind so...yea XD
    Who needs versatility? You're done once you get caught. And sound genjutsu is much harder to avoid. And imagine how fast Pa & Ma Toad can pull of the song in their youth? Scary strong shit!

  10. #90
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    Both are excellent ninja and really hard to compare, but I'll go with Jiraiya > Itachi.
    Jiraiya is about as fast as itachi so in taijutsu, I'll say they're even.
    itachi has more talent in genjutsu, but jiraiya has whole myobokuzan in his stomach.
    I am referring to when he said to itachi and kisame, "you both are trapped in my stomach" and the fact that he had the key frog inside his belly, so I'll say the chance for him to get trapped in genjutsu is small, and will be about nil if he's already in sage mode. He has ma pa, faster and else.
    In ninjutsu, I'll say that jiraiya is stronger. Itachi has amaterasu, but since Jiraiya already saw, sealed and analyzed one, I think he has a counter for it. I think this is also the reason naruto know about amaterasu. When Itachi in susano, basically if jiraiya wait long enough, itachi will die automatically. and he can also use frog song, since itachi still can hear, he will get trapped and all is over for him.
    So Jiraiya>itachi

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