View Poll Results: You're opinion..

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  • Yes I do agree..

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  1. #1
    Lost in fathomed infinity Freakshow's Avatar
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    Itachi didn't defeat Orochimaru at age 11 (A non biased view)

    Wall of text alert!!! ............Just joking

    This is for those who are interested in knowing this, for some this is difficult to understand how the sannin got "beat" by 11 year old Itachi, and for some it's obvious defeat. This will hopefully give you a bit insight on that matter.

    In this penal Orochimaru decided to challange Uchiha Itachi.

    -"11 year old Itachi defeated Orochimaru in one penal" Or "Orochimaru is weak to Genjutsu"...

    This is perhaps the most popular statement ever used on forums when discussing Orochimaru's strength or failures..

    Well, aside from the fact that Itachi is a prodigy, and the best Genjutsu-user we've seen in the Manga, I'll point out two major problems with this picture:

    Firstly, the top-left panel - Orochimaru is bringing his hands together to "Kai" out of the Genjutsu. Why am I so sure he would escape it, rather than just fail like Naruto did? Because of what happened next - Itachi cut off his hand. Itachi isn't a showy, taunting person. He's cold and efficient - why would he cut off Orochimaru's hand, unless Orochimaru was going to escape?

    Look closely..

    What does this show? It shows that Orochimaru can escape Sharingan Genjutsu. Take in mind the distance as well, shown more clearly on the middle panel of this page. There's a bit over a meter there, no wonder Itachi closed the distance so quickly and cut off Orochimaru's hand!

    Now, if there was more distance, then wouldn't Orochimaru escape and be able to counter-attack Itachi? Or, just regenerate the hand, removing what was once a crippling injury to him?

    The hand was important as Ive pointed out in this thread; The Void

    It's obvious isn't it? Mission failed in gaining Itachi's body, that doesn't say Orochimaru would've lost or got defeated. For many this is common sense..
    But for some this is totally unarguable and is fact that because Oro fled at that moment he was "defeated".

    I'm not trying to say that Orochimaru is stronger than Itachi - it is fairly conclusive that he is weaker than Itachi, but I don't think Itachi can defeat him as easily as he "has" in the past.

    If you disagree, then so be it.. Just be glad he got defeated with Susano'o later in the manga. To be honest, who wouldn't be defeated by that swords...?

    So when people say... "HEHE Oro got defeated whot you talking about"..

    For a man who killed two Kage and one of them is no one less than the Sandaime Hokage, also know as God of shinob, later on laughed down KN4, and has made other notable people shit their pants, I wouldn't use that against him... >_>
    Last edited by Freakshow; 11-01-2008 at 11:57 AM.

  2. #2
    logical fans slavkovski's Avatar
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    hmmm.. when i see the title i thinking that u will make a thread about the time line that shows when orochimaru failed to take over itachi, itachi age wasnt 11 years old... but this thread talking about HOW and WHY oro failed to take over itachi...
    well... i think its true that itachi (and also sasuke) could defeat orochimaru because they use a great tactical way... they know orochimaru ninjutsu are way to much to handle, i believe orochimaru no.1 power are his ninjutsu.. 2nd are genjutsu and 3rd taijutsu..
    they know if oro use freely of his hand he has many bullets in his ninjutsu arsenal... thats why they know that they have to "remove" his hand first... but how?? in itachi case he use GENJUTSU... and also when oro's trying to release the genjutsu he immediately cut oro's hand.. for me that means itachi are very smart.. (and later on sasuke follow this way)

    so if u compare itachi and orochimaru with their power, ninjutsu, experience and so on... maybe itachi will loose... but the smartness... well not that i say orochimaru are dumber than itachi, but itachi has sharingan who are a perfect genjutsu tool (that is why oro need sharingan to add his perfection...)

    but i still say itachi defeat orochimaru back then... cause that is really what happen..
    "Either Die as a Hero... or live long enough to see yourself becoming the villain..."
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  3. #3
    If u go by total stats by the laters databook itachi is better overall but the problem with itachi is his chakra pool, in short battle his can do just fine but in long battle things get a little more complicate.Sure itachi dint have does stats when his was a 11 year old but itachi no just can beat orochimaru cuz he doesnt allow him to used his jutsus,orochimaru wasnt on such bad condition when he fought itachi and we just saw the end of the battle,we dont know if that was all the battle or if was more than that and what lead me to believe that way is than in the sasuke vs itachi fight itachi is very aware of some orochimaru jutsus (sure no all since his should have a lot) and i dont think orochimaru was/is the type of fighter that use jutsu just for show.Any way a 11 old itachi couldnt possible beat orochimaru but orochimaru recognize later that itachi is stronger and idont think is just cuz his can cast orochimaru on a genjutsu and cut his hand since i think is that was only the case oro could have come with a way to evade that and beat itachi enough to take over his body.Juts for the record sasuke and itachi at that time were on difference lvl and orochimaru at the time his fought sasuke was way weaker than when he fought itachi.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Vesperia's Avatar
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    yea, i thought u were arguing that Itachi wasn't 11 years old but you were just arguing about why Oro wouldn't have lost that bad, which I don't agree on. I think Itachi would beat him hands-down
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  5. #5
    logical fans slavkovski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaigan View Post
    If u go by total stats by the laters databook itachi is better overall but the problem with itachi is his chakra pool, in short battle his can do just fine but in long battle things get a little more complicate.Sure itachi dint have does stats when his was a 11 year old but itachi no just can beat orochimaru cuz he doesnt allow him to used his jutsus,orochimaru wasnt on such bad condition when he fought itachi and we just saw the end of the battle,we dont know if that was all the battle or if was more than that and what lead me to believe that way is than in the sasuke vs itachi fight itachi is very aware of some orochimaru jutsus (sure no all since his should have a lot) and i dont think orochimaru was/is the type of fighter that use jutsu just for show.Any way a 11 old itachi couldnt possible beat orochimaru but orochimaru recognize later that itachi is stronger and idont think is just cuz his can cast orochimaru on a genjutsu and cut his hand since i think is that was only the case oro could have come with a way to evade that and beat itachi enough to take over his body.Juts for the record sasuke and itachi at that time were on difference lvl and orochimaru at the time his fought sasuke was way weaker than when he fought itachi.
    from the page we see that they not really tired nor they cloth are torn apart.. i think the fight just last minutes.. oro challenge itachi. itachi cast genjutsu to oro, oro just about to release it, itachi come in instant and cut oro's hand...
    since oro loose his hand he can do nothing i guess...
    "Either Die as a Hero... or live long enough to see yourself becoming the villain..."
    "Knowledge is power"

  6. #6
    Lost in fathomed infinity Freakshow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slavkovski View Post
    since oro loose his hand he can do nothing i guess...
    This is perhaps the most ignorant post ever. Sry to say it.

    I'm training to not sound biased here. Cutting off Orochimaru's hand doesn't mean you defeated him, it means he can regenerate it and then the fight starts for real.



    To clear things up...

    1) If I remember correct, Itachi stats are > 35.5 , Oro's are > 35....
    Either way, Stats only tell you're achievement. It doesn't tell how you're act or your opponents act would go. For a man who was secretly trained by Konoha and later on joined Akatuski again trained by another Legend (Madara) it's expected of Itachi to have high stats. The thi ng is Orochimaru also have high stats.

    2) For people who brought up Sasuke having a chance in defeating Oro.
    Please be serious, there is no way in hell Sasuke has chance in defeating Oro even Itachi.

    3) Just because there is nowhere it states "Oro is the greatest" doesn't mean you can degrade him expecting no one to tell otherwise...

  7. #7
    a.k.a Action Bastard Bushido Brown's Avatar
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    itachi and sasuke defeated Orochimaru just get over it. Itachi even did it twice. Jutsu is not the only thing that wins a fight for a ninja, their smarts win it for them too and Itachi and Sasuke used their smartness to defeat Orochimaru. It was smart of them to cut his hands, its like that saying "Cut off the head and the bodies died" but in this case its cut off the hands and the jutsu is died. Orochimaru should have used his smarts and relized that Itachi was strong and his shrinigan was the thing that really beat. But he was to stupid and trained Sasuke (who has a shrinigan) to be strong, plus the fact he knew how Sasuke attack towards him, why even train him to become strong in ther first place. If he couldnt see Sasuke one day trying to take him on then he really is the dumbest ninja in the series. Now im not saying Orochimaru is dumb he's in my top 5 smartest people in the series but like i said if he couldnt see that one coming than he is dumb

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freakshow View Post
    What does this show? It shows that Orochimaru can escape Sharingan Genjutsu. Take in mind the distance as well, shown more clearly on the middle panel of this page. There's a bit over a meter there, no wonder Itachi closed the distance so quickly and cut off Orochimaru's hand!

    Now, if there was more distance, then wouldn't Orochimaru escape and be able to counter-attack Itachi? Or, just regenerate the hand, removing what was once a crippling injury to him?

    It's obvious isn't it? Mission failed in gaining Itachi's body, that doesn't say Orochimaru would've lost or got defeated. For many this is common sense..
    But for some this is totally unarguable and is fact that because Oro fled at that moment he was "defeated".
    Well, I try and stay out of these threads cause it's usually just you rehashing something you've already put in one of your many other Oro threads, but meh might as well....

    You can't definitively say that Oro could break the sharingan genjustu just because he was going to try to, that is you assuming he could. Just because Itachi stopped him from trying doesn't mean he would have succeeded in breaking it, but he certainly could have. Why beat something twice when you can do it once?

    These are ninja, dunno why you think someone like Itachi would give someone like Oro a chance to regain his strength but that is just not smart.

    Since when is running away from a fight you started not admitting defeat? Maybe should think about what you type before you type it, it surely helps.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Greed-sama's Avatar
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    So let me get this straight, you are saying Orochimaru would of done better if he "released" the genjutsu and was able to counterattack. Instead Itachi cut off his hand which did something um... oh yeah "released" the genjutsu. Face it Orochimaru was scared, why didn't he regenerate his hand? Why didn't he try anything else? Why did he just run away? cause he knew he didn't stand a chance. There is logic in this post so don't say there is none.
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  10. #10
    Half Man Half Amazin' Phixion's Avatar
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    I do believe that Orochimaru could escape the genjutsu. But I am still positive that if Itachi and Orochimaru would meet again for battle, Itachi would be the winner.

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