Lost in fathomed infinity
Why Orochimaru is a top tier!
Top-Tiers: Rikudou sannin, Hashirama, Madara, Pain, Sarutobi (is not expecting everyone to agree )
When Deidara met Kakashi, Kakashi held his own! And later on even half way defeated Deidara. Deidara later on warned Hidan and Kakuzu about meeting Kakashi.
Deidara to Kakuzu and Hidan; "If your going to Konoha, Ive got one bit of advise. be careful."
When Itachi met Kakashi, Kakashi was holding his own and impressing Itachi...
Almost too much! Even if Itachi didn't intent to fight for real, Kakashi had no clue, yet he was not frightened. And was actually planning ahead like how a ninja is supposed to do being aware of who Itachi is, you now, "The man who whipped out the legendary clan".. Yet still was forced to flee several times.
Itachi; "As expected of Konoha's Kakashi"
When Pain met Kakashi, he immediately acknowledged Kakashi's strength in his God form. And Kakashi being aware of how powerful Pain is, 'killing one of the legendary sannins', he still was not intimidated. He confidently stood up and actually suggested to take him head on, sending Iruka away, almost reminded me of Minato. The way he was the first one who took actions against such powerful ninja.
God Pain; "I'm honored to meet you Kakashi, the copy ninja"
And don't let me start on Kakuzu and Hidan. Because Kakashi's confidence was overwhelming at start, the way he crushed Kakuzu's heart.
All this, whether they wanted\want to fight or not, he mostly had little clue, all he was thinking is to deal with the opponent before they do any more damages.
I'm not talking about power lvl here. I'm talking about GUTS! How to have the guts to actually intent to dispose of such powerful enemies. And do what a Shinobi is suppose to do! Stand up and fight in before his opponent and never give up. Kakashi has been known to have copied over 1000 jutsus. Kakashi is more Hokage material then Tsunade actually is.
That same man met Orochimaru. And what did he do?
The son of Konohas white Fang, found himself helpless.
He literally froze, overwhelmed by the killing intent of Orochimaru.
Where did the brave shinobi go? He doubted his way of a ninja.
Orochimaru didn't even touch him nor did he threaten him, all he did was stand there.
Kakashi met Gaara, a guy who oozes of killing intent, lives to kill (At that moment). How did Kakashi react to his killing intent?
Not even amused.. >_>
We can ask ourselves...How much more desire to kill and hate does it take to surpass Gaara's killing intent? What kind of power do you think takes a genius like Kakashi to be so frightened?
This is not to degrade Kakashi's strength, it only is to show the difference of effects people he met had on him, because on forums Orochimaru is severely underestimated. And this strongly proves why Orochimaru is top tier and should be acknowledged.
Kill 2 of the greatest Hokages, create you're own country, create immortality, bring back people from the dead, refuse to die before accomplishing you're goal, halfway destroy the most powerful village in Narutoverse , brake every rule of humanity, the list goes on...
I guess you'll just be hated even as a villain when it's you're job to act all villainesque and hurt people for the lulz. Kishi needs to give Orochimaru some fancy eye's, so then he'll have a bunch of mindless fanboys to label him as god...>_>
The brilliance of Kishimoto is the varied types of villains he presents.
He made Orochimaru come off at his best, then showed the reality that even such powerful entity's has to struggle their way, putting him aside for a while so he can focus on letting other issues came to conclusion and rest in piece, and later bring back Orochimaru and complete his purpose for the manga. Then he'll be at his best as a villain. These over hyped 'yet not so powerful' villains who lack everything that is needed from a villain will vanish soon, it's their fate. From the beginning, Orochimaru is not bound by fate.
He was the one who put things to start:
And he will be the one ending things. He will die in a way worthy of his being.
Last edited by Freakshow; 10-23-2008 at 05:27 AM.
Dude, Kakashi changed. If Kakashi meets Orochimaru now and he freezes like last time then I'd be very very surprised. Oro didn't kill 2 Hokages, he killed 1 and the Kazekage, who deserved to die anyway. Orochimaru has killing intent, like we didn't know that one. Pain is also someone who possesses a lot of killing intent, it doesn't automatically make him top tier, it's the other qualities as well. Orochimaru has those other qualities too but he's also been beat and overall is definitely not top tier. In my opinion these are the top tier shinobi:
Minato, Madara, Hashirama
No one else.
Don't compare Pain to Orochimaru. If you read the manga, I shouldn't have to explain why you shouldn't. Madara has failed many times. He has been failing since the beginning of his life. The only thing he supposedly accomplished was EMS, and he failed to keep it. So why would you even put him with those three?
Originally Posted by Shawshank
Oh so this is about failure now? Well then, the irony in that is very amusing. So if Madara shouldn't be on their because of failure then Orochimaru shouldn't be on it either. I was trying to leave the failure out of this but if you insist. I agree though, if you take failure into account Madara is easily the biggest one of all. Also, I compare Pain to Orochimaru because they're both villains and they're both shinobi, maybe Freakshow shouldn't compare Kakashi then and Kakashi now. Go ahead and tell me why I shouldn't compare them though, I want to know.
Originally Posted by Freakshow v.2
i like your theory alot but ima have to say nah , i think they just made the storyline like that at the beg to buff up orochimaru and make him look god-like and undefeatable to hype up the story when in actuality orochimaru almost lost to an old geezer version of the 3rd hokage
I have to agree with Byakuya_. Considering how early in the manga this situation between Kakashi and Orochimaru occurred and considering that Oro's character was still in the process of being introduced to the manga at that point, the situation was upping Oro's character. So like Shawshank said, if they ever met up again and Kakashi still froze, then that would be interesting.
Lost in fathomed infinity
Guys lets easy on the off topic stuff.
I hear some people say "It's the way he got introduced"
-Well ya! As I said in the first post;
So you guys expect him to be invincible at any moment? That's not Kishi style.
Originally Posted by Freakshow
And you'll soon learn why when this so called "God" Will be demolished and pulverized!
And for those who make silly excuses and say "Kakashi has changed after time skip and is not afraid anymore."
-Explain to me why he still held his own before time skip against Itachi..
It's a silly excuse using time skip, claiming he had changed and is not afraid anymore.
Besides, there are no valid fact's that prove he had changed his personality and overcame his fear in only 3 years....
Lost in fathomed infinity
This is invalid, because they already knew each other.
Originally Posted by Hand Banana
And I don't remember where it stated, but It said Konoha feared Orochimaru and his dark nature led to him not becoming Hokage. Something similar was stated somewhere...
I really don't like the comparrissions with the OP because nearly everyone changed with the time skip from part I to part II. So even with the "Kakashi" comparrisions, it's almost irrellevant to Orochimaru being a top tier ninja.
To say that he *isn't* one is kind of silly. Just because he's a villian, does not mean he'll always be lower ranked compared to the good guys.
Large chakra compasity
Unique Jutsus that he created
White Snake ability
Other special Orochimaru stuff
He's really the kind of character that can do anything that he wants. And He and his underlings exist on by his whims and goals.
He's had shortcomings, but he also had a powerful will that helped him suceed for so long.
Well the main point is that if the fight between Oro and Kakashi had happened back then, Kakashi would be dead or in a hospital. Which is very similar to how it went when Kakashi faced Itachi. He ended up in a hospital for a week. Hold up....I think I just found something that Itachi and Orochimaru actually have in common. They both could and would walk over Kakashi. Ain't that somethin.