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  1. #11
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freakshow v.2 View Post
    I assume he doesn't have it because if he did, he probably would have been using it. He wouldn't have a need for Akatsuki probably.
    Oh and he failed more than once.
    Check the Manga...



    Orochimaru and Pain can't be compared in terms of strength. Orochimaru is more proven than Pain. Orochimaru hasn't failed yet. One of his main goals is to live for eternity, and he is succeeding.
    Oh, well that totally makes sense now. I'm sorry to have compared Orochimaru to Pain, it makes absolutely no sense comparing them as opposed to comparing say Orochimaru and Gaara at 13 right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freakshow View Post
    And for those who make silly excuses and say "Kakashi has changed after time skip and is not afraid anymore."

    -Explain to me why he still held his own before time skip against Itachi..
    It's a silly excuse using time skip, claiming he had changed and is not afraid anymore.
    Besides, there are no valid fact's that prove he had changed his personality and overcame his fear in only 3 years....
    If holding his own means doing absolutely nothing to him and then getting owned in 1 second then yeah he held his own. Sorry, I must have been thinking of some other fight, you're totally right.

  2. #12
    Lost in fathomed infinity Freakshow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    If holding his own means doing absolutely nothing to him and then getting owned in 1 second then yeah he held his own. Sorry, I must have been thinking of some other fight, you're totally right.
    You ignored the main point, as expected. And attempting to move from the basic point..So stop there...

    This is not about power lvl. How many times do I have to repeat...?

    The basic point is that he had the guts to stand up against Itachi.
    The man who supposedly defeated 'the legendary' clan by himself, and was sent to capture THÈ strongest bijuu..

    In front of Orochimaru, Kakashi was unable to even stand properly infront of Orochimaru, without Orochimaru lifting a finger or doing anything, not even a threat. No sharingna, no MS,, EMS or Rin'negan... He chopped off Kakashi's head with hes back turned...

    His killing intent surpasses Gaara's killing intent, and everyone knows that boy is 100% pure hate and bloodlust...



    To go further with my point: Another thing was, Kakashi's known triumph card is his Sharingan, that is when he gets serious. When Itachi saw it, he was like "..!!" shocked. He was unable to notice it before Kakashi had to reveal it. While Orochimaru noticed it before he even revealed it. As he made a smirk and almost congratulated him because that was the same thing he desired.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Afro Thunda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freakshow View Post
    You ignored the main point, as expected. And attempting to move from the basic point..So stop there...

    This is not about power lvl. How many times do I have to repeat...?

    The basic point is that he had the guts to stand up against Itachi.
    The man who supposedly defeated 'the legendary' clan, and is with the Akatsuki.

    Yet Kakashi was even unable to even stand properly infront of Orochimaru, without Orochimaru lifting a finger or doing anything, not even a threat.

    To go further with my point: Another thing was, Kakashi's known triumph card is his Sharingan, that is when he gets serious. When Itachi saw it, he was like "..!!" shocked. He was unable to notice it before Kakashi had to reveal it. While Orochimaru noticed it before he even revealed it. As he made a smirk and almost congratulated him because that was the same thing he desired.
    You do know that Kakashi arrived to the fight with his Sharingan already revealed, right? Itachi was only surprised at the fact that Kakashi was able to take his Sharingan so far as a Non-Uchiha.

    And if I remember correctly, Kakashi was standing in front of Oro with a charged Raikiri before he froze up and resolved that he wasn't going to win in the first place. Also, considering how widely known Kakashi is, he doesn't really have to reveal his Sharingan for ppl to know he has it.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freakshow View Post
    You ignored the main point, as expected. And attempting to move from the basic point..So stop there...

    This is not about power lvl. How many times do I have to repeat...?

    The basic point is that he had the guts to stand up against Itachi.
    The man who supposedly defeated 'the legendary' clan by himself, and was sent to capture THÈ strongest bijuu..

    In front of Orochimaru, Kakashi was unable to even stand properly infront of Orochimaru, without Orochimaru lifting a finger or doing anything, not even a threat. No sharingna, no MS,, EMS or Rin'negan... He chopped off Kakashi's head with hes back turned...

    His killing intent surpasses Gaara's killing intent, and everyone knows that boy is 100% pure hate and bloodlust...



    To go further with my point: Another thing was, Kakashi's known triumph card is his Sharingan, that is when he gets serious. When Itachi saw it, he was like "..!!" shocked. He was unable to notice it before Kakashi had to reveal it. While Orochimaru noticed it before he even revealed it. As he made a smirk and almost congratulated him because that was the same thing he desired.
    So he's top tier because he's scary?

    Alright then, he can be the scariest and maybe he's the "evilest" and instills fear among people more than anyone else. How does that make him top tier? Although I will tell you now that Yamato is pretty damn scary with his ghoul eyes, I don't think Oro could top that.

    In my opinion Oro is just a classic villain of pure evil with an ambitious goal but he's not top tier. I would put him on the same tier as Jiraiya, Tsunade, the dead Akatsuki members, Sasuke, Naruto, Kakashi. Madara, Itachi, Sarutobi, and Pain make up the second highest tier and of course in the top tier is just Minato and Hashirama. That's just my list, you could have him wherever you want but it would only be because he's one of your favorite characters, not because he's really just that strong. Also, I only put three tiers in my post but there are more, this was just quick, there has to be noticeable power gaps so only three or four wouldn't be enough even for the small amount of people I posted.

  5. #15
    Lost in fathomed infinity Freakshow's Avatar
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    Shawshank@ I hope you're trying to be comical...
    Having such strong killing intent proves how strong willed Orochimaru really is.

    I find You're top tier list invalid, because Hashirama took on Kyubi and Madara, while Minato couldn't handle Kyubi himself, so I don't see how they are comparable at all, but that's just my opinion..

    Quote Originally Posted by afro thunda View Post
    You do know that Kakashi arrived to the fight with his Sharingan already revealed, right? Itachi was only surprised at the fact that Kakashi was able to take his Sharingan so far as a Non-Uchiha.
    .
    You know, I would like to see proof. I'm not blocking the whole idea, I would appriciate if someone found direct prove and refreshen my memory. And know that this won't have much effect on the basic point.

    Quote Originally Posted by afro thunda View Post
    And if I remember correctly, Kakashi was standing in front of Oro with a charged Raikiri before he froze up and resolved that he wasn't going to win in the first place. Also, considering how widely known Kakashi is, he doesn't really have to reveal his Sharingan for ppl to know he has it.
    Uh of course, naturally Kakashi would sacrifice his own life to protect Sasuke since it's his responsibility and he do care for him. But he still doubted his will!
    He nearly wet himself.

    And yet here he is standing in before god without hesitation....

    Take into consideration that Orochimaru didn't do a thing to Kakashi. If I remember correct he even said that he was not there to take Sasuke nor fight.. And with his back turned he managed to chop off Kakashi's head with his intent to kill.

    Doesn't take a genius to figure out this man is so overwhelmingly strong willed and is not here to absorb bullsh*t unless you are worthy of an opponent..

  6. #16
    Lost in fathomed infinity Freakshow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hand Banana View Post
    So the same theory can be applied to J-Man and Tsunade since they were able to go up against orochimaru without fear.
    This is invalid, because they already knew each other.

    And I don't remember where it stated, but It said Konoha feared Orochimaru and his dark nature led to him not becoming Hokage. Something similar was stated somewhere...

  7. #17
    (ノ゜Д゜)ノ RedPan's Avatar
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    I really don't like the comparrissions with the OP because nearly everyone changed with the time skip from part I to part II. So even with the "Kakashi" comparrisions, it's almost irrellevant to Orochimaru being a top tier ninja.

    To say that he *isn't* one is kind of silly. Just because he's a villian, does not mean he'll always be lower ranked compared to the good guys.

    Orochimaru has:

    Large chakra compasity
    Unique Jutsus that he created
    Ambition
    White Snake ability
    Other special Orochimaru stuff

    He's really the kind of character that can do anything that he wants. And He and his underlings exist on by his whims and goals.

    He's had shortcomings, but he also had a powerful will that helped him suceed for so long.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Afro Thunda's Avatar
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    Well the main point is that if the fight between Oro and Kakashi had happened back then, Kakashi would be dead or in a hospital. Which is very similar to how it went when Kakashi faced Itachi. He ended up in a hospital for a week. Hold up....I think I just found something that Itachi and Orochimaru actually have in common. They both could and would walk over Kakashi. Ain't that somethin.

  9. #19
    a.k.a Action Bastard Bushido Brown's Avatar
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    Orochimaru didnt beat the 3rd Hokage if you remember he gave his life up to seal Orochimaru soul, but only had enough strenght to seal his arms, plus the first and second Hokages did most of the work for Orochimaru as far as battling the 3rd Hokage.

  10. #20
    Senior Member master.roly's Avatar
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    i think the reason kakashi was so scared of orochimaru was because of the whole myth around him. by no means am i saying that oro's killing intent isnt amazing, but imo there is more to kakashi's reaction at that time than just oro's killing intent.

    im guessing that when kakashi was growing up oro was a legend in konoha, everybody must have talked about the sannins, specially oro that should have become hokage if not because of his evil actions. now taking that into consideration, maybe kakashi would have done better against oro than what he thought (not that he would win!) but the fact is that he mentally let himself be beat, because of what he knew about oro.

    now on the topic, about oro being top tier, i somewhat agree. i dont believe oro is the strongest character or villain in naruto but he is really persistent, the fact that he's still "around" is proof of that. i dont take into consideration his killing intent, because sasuke also showed some nice killing intent and in my book sasuke isnt even close to oro or any other top tier shinobi as of yet.

    ps. HB kinda beat me to stating some things!

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