Strongest of the Shichibukai?

[cross777]

that possible. LOL again like i said B4 like a poor mans WB. LOL. i mean idk i could see him with a captain or two more than he had and i think oda will take the time to highlight the powerful members of his crew at some point. i mean durring the war he was rushed. so, this time around i am sure he will take the time to give a more in depth look at buggy's crew.

[SCarred Luffy Lvl:Z]

Of course thats possible but as for now i think all clues indicate that he wasnt interested in the war.

Exactly, and all clues point to the fact that he's not interested or cares about anything really, so why would the war be seen as abnormal performing below his usual self(couldn't see who this was talking about before but I assume it was Doflamingo, if it was some1 else- disregard). Especially if It was the same usual stuff from him.

You didnt see him dominating cause he wasnt interested in the War.So?There is no shame to have your attack blocked by one of Wb's top commanders,who can fight equally with an admiral.And there is no proof that this was his strongest attack.And we know he is stronger than Vista.

It also wasn't no where near his weakest attack either.

Hmmm, for Mihawk, it's a bit hard to judge. From what we've been told, he matched WB and Shanks pre illness and lost of arm. So if he really lives up to the hype, he should be the current strongest person in all of OP, but I have my doubts about this. While he wasn't serious at the war at all, he did attempt to go after Luffy a tad seriously, but I doubt he was seriously against Vista. That attack towards WB wasn't serious either. He knew of WB's abilities, and wanted to know why WB didn't chose to attack from afar.

He wanted to check what WB was up to, coming in for close range combat when he has the advantage in range combat. His attack was nothing special. I mean compare Zoro's pound cannon to his Asura attack. They're on completely different levels.

"I want to measure the distance to that man and myself who seems as if he's standing right in front of me." A summary(not saying word for word but it gives the gist of Mihawk's quote. and in noi way does that sound like he's being literal. He was testing what WB's strength was against what his was. Fine, maybe it wasn't his strongest, but I don't see it being that far from from his best, yet nowhere near his weakest.

While I can't speak for Kuma pre Cyborg mods, what I meant was that Kuma when the StrawHats first met him, was much stronger than he was at the war. I mean put it this way, while guarding the ship, he got injured quite badly. Had he had his personality and mind, he would have dodged all those attacks, and perhaps reflected some as well. From what we've seen, PXs only know how to take hits, and shoot lazers or paw blast. Not exactly the most intellegent of beings. That's why I reckon him after being completed as PX0 is weaker than him pre completion. The strength of his body is no doubt an advantage, and having a lazer on your side is not a bad thing either, but lose of proper judgement is.

You really think staying in the same spot for 2 years, with probably little or no food(who knows if he still requires it), no repairs or no way to really re-energize, probably having to be up 24/7 to ensure no 1 tries anything, and expect an attack from anywhere to protect only that whole ship, and any1 wouldn't be heavily injured? Really? Can you really dodge something for a day while protecting what might be behind you, if they miss? Much less 2 years?
Think you're forgetting just how hard protecting something is.
But even so I pointed out that I was considering the Kuma with a personality, because odds are the new Kuma would be weaker mostly in the sense of creativity and intelligence. I just don't think that 2 years is an example of it.

The attack never landed on Whitebeard. Who is to say that it wouldn't have killed him? In fact, Jozu stopping the attack shows that it would have killed White Beard.

Really, or does it show nothing about WB's strength and a decent amount on Mihawk's strength, no matter what.

I know what you meant,but how do you know that he had no idea about his strength?

Reread, I really cannot explain it any better than I already did.

Of course there is a mystery about them i was just saying that those two havent done enough to put them at the same level as Mihawk yet.And i dont think we are gonna see anything new from Kuma.I'm not saying that he is leagues above Dofla or Kuma but for now they are not on his level.

I understand what you're saying, and I am saying Kuma has proved himself. Doflamingo, I'm going more on his shown intelligence, cleverness, ruthlessness, and decent abilities. Didn't mean he was necessarily in Mihawk's "level", But do I think he has shown a clear cut ability to get the job done, even against Mihawk. And I do not think on his level is an accurate assessment. Kuma definitely on his level. Think you mean they just won't beat him. But they are obviously on his level.

Supernova level people are clearly fodder for top tiers.Kizaru pretty much proved this.So its not for me its manga canon that people at Luffy's level cant do shit to top tiers.And i dont know the difference between Vista and Mihawk.For now we only know that he is weaker.And is that supposed to prove anything?I said i'm going with hype,because we havent seen Mihawk going all out yet.I just said that his iceberg cutting feat is one of the best in the manga.

That's the thing, even when fighting only Arlong years ago, Kizaru had to resort to his fruit, as can be evidenced from his smoking finger. The only real proven use of haki was to protect the execution platform, which was a team effort, nor do we know how much each was really capable of. So far for the most part, the Admirals have proven that their fruit abilities alone can beat supernovas like fodder. Not really any facet of their training as Marines, not involving their fruit, that can do that. I mean I get, you can get lazy when dealing with crazy powerful fruit like that and not want to use any earned abilities, But you can't really say their earned abilities with the fruit, has beaten fodders that easily. It has been all super powerful crazy fruit. So for me it isn't canon that they can't do anything. In fact, look at WB. They did nothing individually but you can't say those 200+ bullet wounds did nothing to contribute to his death, and the Admirals don't have that weakness because of their fruit, only.

Yes, so going with hype proves there is no proof, besides your viewpoint of the hype itself which can vary.

No i didnt say that.I said that Kuma hasnt done anything that suggests he is on that level.His feats are impressive,but they are not enough to put him there.

He didnt destroy the island just the buildings in it.I hope you didnt mean that it was "island busting".And judging by the fact that most people survived i wouldnt say it is so dangerous as you make it out to be.I'm not saying it isnt one of the best though.

I get what you're saying and the same applies to Mihawk. his feats so far aren't that great. In fact 1 of his greatest, and 1 of the greatest reasons you probably believe his feats outmatch, is that he fought Shanks as a rival, years ago. While it tells us a lot about him then , w.o. really seeing them leaves a very incomplete picture, and tells very little definitive info about him now. You're pairing that up with his reputation IYO, which pushes him apparently IYO way over the top. I'm saying that while your opinion might not change the facts also don't change, and the feats that he has done presently don't really put mihawk or Kuma above each other.

Actually he effected a part of the forest area as well. and do you really not think both of the times he used that move, he wasn't holding back. Kuma had just saved the SH's essentially just to kill them, really? You really think he couldn't at least have made it powerful enough to kill the nobodies from Lola's crew, really? And even while full robot during the war, he probably wouldn't have cared if he killed some marines along the way, but to actively know you're going to kill them while trying to kill Oars Jr. would be going to far. Not to mention realistically if something could damage Oars Jr. that much do you really think it wouldn't have killed most VA level marines and below easily, unless Kuma or Oda-san himself just chose not to kill that way.

I agree with Dct21's assessment in general except I believe Croc has clearly shown he is above Moira. The only reason it took so long for Luffy to defeat Moira is because Moira ran away that much, and then used Oz for so long. And the only reason he put in 1000 shadows was to show Luffy up after what he did facing Oz. And he still lost to a battered, worn out Luffy.

[halaros536]

When was it said mihawk matched WB pre-illness? Nowhere.

Exactly.

It's said he had matches with 2-armed shanks, true
but that was (now) pre 12 years ago, who knows what happened to shanks in all those years.

No we have a very good idea about how strong Shanks was back then.By what he said about him losing his arm,its obvious that Wb respected his strength even back then and that comes from the guy who mocks the admirals.Even if Shanks hadnt reached his peak back then he was definitely pretty close imo.

All we know is that his and WB's presences split the sky and that he and his crew returned
unharmed the day after their battle with Kaidou.

I dont really think that they actually fought.

Anyway,
Mihawk wants to know his strenght compared WB's
and he decides to do that by sending a 'non-serious attack'?
That sh*t doesn't make any sense at all.

Of course it doesnt make any sense if you are using mistranslations.http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece...3/page007.html

U have NO proof he didn't go all out, none what so ever.

Saying he 'wasn't even serious' when he attacked luffy,
while he clearly sais he will himself is just as rediculous.
http://www.mangareader.net/103-35241...apter-560.html
Proof he DID go all out = the ice berg slash which u call
and i quote "One of the most destructive feats in the manga"

Firstly that was a mistranslation.Here is the correct one: http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece...0/page013.html

Not being merciful=/= going all out.Being Merciful is what he did against Zoro ,when he let him live.Using an attack that would have cut Luffy in half doesnt seem merciful to me,but that doesnt mean he needed to use even half of his full capabilities.
And i would like you to explain why did he sent one of his weakest attacks when he caught Luffy off-guard.

Exactly, and all clues point to the fact that he's not interested or cares about anything really, so why would the war be seen as abnormal performing below his usual self(couldn't see who this was talking about before but I assume it was Doflamingo, if it was some1 else- disregard). Especially if It was the same usual stuff from him.

And you know that how?Have we ever seens him in an important war again so that we could know that?And you didnt explain why didnt he kill Atmos.Isnt that enough for you to understand that he wasnt taking it seriously?

It also wasn't no where near his weakest attack either.

Probably yes.

"I want to measure the distance to that man and myself who seems as if he's standing right in front of me." A summary(not saying word for word but it gives the gist of Mihawk's quote. and in noi way does that sound like he's being literal. He was testing what WB's strength was against what his was. Fine, maybe it wasn't his strongest, but I don't see it being that far from from his best, yet nowhere near his weakest.

See the link that i posted above he wasnt testing his strength.And i didnt say it was his werakest,but nothing suggests that it was his strongest either.

But even so I pointed out that I was considering the Kuma with a personality, because odds are the new Kuma would be weaker mostly in the sense of creativity and intelligence. I just don't think that 2 years is an example of it.

Well i'm not too sure.He might didnt get any weaker at all,who knows?

Reread, I really cannot explain it any better than I already did.

Still i dont see how you know bthat he had no idea about his strength.Do we know somehow if those two had any interactions lately?

I understand what you're saying, and I am saying Kuma has proved himself. Doflamingo, I'm going more on his shown intelligence, cleverness, ruthlessness, and decent abilities. Didn't mean he was necessarily in Mihawk's "level", But do I think he has shown a clear cut ability to get the job done, even against Mihawk. And I do not think on his level is an accurate assessment. Kuma definitely on his level. Think you mean they just won't beat him. But they are obviously on his level.

I think we might be saying the same thing.When i said he isnt on his level i meant that i dont think he has any chance of beating him.That doesnt mean thaty Mihawk can beat him easily though.Dofla is a mystery for now he might turn up stronger or weaker than we are thinking.

That's the thing, even when fighting only Arlong years ago, Kizaru had to resort to his fruit, as can be evidenced from his smoking finger. The only real proven use of haki was to protect the execution platform, which was a team effort, nor do we know how much each was really capable of. So far for the most part, the Admirals have proven that their fruit abilities alone can beat supernovas like fodder. Not really any facet of their training as Marines, not involving their fruit, that can do that. I mean I get, you can get lazy when dealing with crazy powerful fruit like that and not want to use any earned abilities, But you can't really say their earned abilities with the fruit, has beaten fodders that easily. It has been all super powerful crazy fruit. So for me it isn't canon that they can't do anything. In fact, look at WB. They did nothing individually but you can't say those 200+ bullet wounds did nothing to contribute to his death, and the Admirals don't have that weakness because of their fruit, only.

Icant really say that i see your point here.Of course Kizaru's df is a major part of his strength.But someone who is on his level should be able to match him even though he has that particular df.So if two guys are around the same level means that people who are fodder for the one,should also be for the other.

Yes, so going with hype proves there is no proof, besides your viewpoint of the hype itself which can vary.

Sometimes things are just obvious.I dont think anyone would say that Dragon wont be a top-tier though his feats dont indicate so yet.And even feats can be judged subjectively many times so that doesnt really mean anything.

I get what you're saying and the same applies to Mihawk. his feats so far aren't that great.

I know but Mihawk isnt the one who needs feats since he is a stated top-tier just like Kaidou who has no feats,but we know he is one of the top guys.

In fact 1 of his greatest, and 1 of the greatest reasons you probably believe his feats outmatch, is that he fought Shanks as a rival, years ago. While it tells us a lot about him then , w.o. really seeing them leaves a very incomplete picture, and tells very little definitive info about him now. You're pairing that up with his reputation IYO, which pushes him apparently IYO way over the top. I'm saying that while your opinion might not change the facts also don't change, and the feats that he has done presently don't really put mihawk or Kuma above each other.

Buyt we havent seen either going all out.Hype is the only way to judge and Mihawk doesnt have some usual hype.He is practically stated to be a top-tier,but the same cannot be said about Kuma.

Actually he effected a part of the forest area as well. and do you really not think both of the times he used that move, he wasn't holding back. Kuma had just saved the SH's essentially just to kill them, really? You really think he couldn't at least have made it powerful enough to kill the nobodies from Lola's crew, really? And even while full robot during the war, he probably wouldn't have cared if he killed some marines along the way, but to actively know you're going to kill them while trying to kill Oars Jr. would be going to far. Not to mention realistically if something could damage Oars Jr. that much do you really think it wouldn't have killed most VA level marines and below easily, unless Kuma or Oda-san himself just chose not to kill that way.

Can he really control the power of it?I mean you seem to believe that because of his huge aoe which is similar tyo Mihawk's they have similar power.If that was the case his attack wasnt purposefully weakened.And lol no i dont think he would have killed the Vas.I consider them to be much greater than the straw hats,since they are people who could actually make a difference in the War.

I agree with Dct21's assessment in general except I believe Croc has clearly shown he is above Moira.

I totally agree with that.For me Moria was easily the weakest.

[ChaosMaster]

Lolz, Dragons' sole feat, that is to control the weather covering an entire island, that alone will allow him to be ranked top tier. Did you see that gust of wind he made that swept through near every street in loge town. Damn man, I would put him above admiral. But back on topic, yeah, Kuma robot but with personality was prob his strongest form. Now, I reckon his drop down a rank. And really, the strength of his armor means nothing to any of the shichibukai anyway. Hmmm, Jimbei.. his a tank on land, but now that I compare it, his water attack, compared to the size of Neptune's water attack, is nothing. Really put's Neptunes strength into perspective doesn't it.

If I had to put it in order, this is their strength at the war. It would be:
Mihawk (most experience, and his rep)
Doflamingo (Like how Mr3 was ranked above Mr4 because of his scheming mind, Flamingo seems like the scheming type)
Boa (Come on man, Soverign Haki and the strongest of an island of haki using warriors, pawned smokers arse)
Jimbei (Guy's a beast, pretty much Tiger's right hand man)
Croc (Below Jimbei because of his water weakness, otherwise, his a beast, a giant sandstorm, a sand attack that can cut anything and a logia)
BB(sure, he has 2 DF's, but his careless, and his Darkness doesn't seem like it can counter poison nor will it help him if his cut in half, any sort of skill he might have had when he battled with Shanks seems to have rusted up and dissolved in the sea)
Kuma (Robo mind means no dodging or reflecting, Armor means nothing to any of the current Shichibukai's, Laser charge up time leaves room to attack, certainly not the threat he used to be)
Buggy (He can't hurt ya, but you can't take him down either [he'll either run away, or take himself out by accident]; Surviving Mihawks attacks, taking CoC without getting knocked out, heck, look at all the people joining him [Mr3, Alvida, high bounties] he could have CoC himself, lolz)
Moria (failsauce)

[halaros536]

Lolz, Dragons' sole feat, that is to control the weather covering an entire island, that alone will allow him to be ranked top tier. Did you see that gust of wind he made that swept through near every street in loge town. Damn man, I would put him above admiral.

In case that you misunderstood i'm sure that Dragon is top-tier.But his feats dont prove that yet.He only showed great area of effect admirals have shown much better feats in term of destructive ability and physical stats.

If I had to put it in
order, this is their strength at the war. It would be:
Mihawk (most experience, and his rep)
Doflamingo (Like how Mr3 was ranked above Mr4 because of his scheming mind, Flamingo seems like the scheming type)
Boa (Come on man, Soverign Haki and the strongest of an island of haki using warriors, pawned smokers arse)
Jimbei (Guy's a beast, pretty much Tiger's right hand man)
Croc (Below Jimbei because of his water weakness, otherwise, his a beast, a giant sandstorm, a sand attack that can cut anything and a logia)
BB(sure, he has 2 DF's, but his careless, and his Darkness doesn't seem like it can counter poison nor will it help him if his cut in half, any sort of skill he might have had when he battled with Shanks seems to have rusted up and dissolved in the sea)
Kuma (Robo mind means no dodging or reflecting, Armor means nothing to any of the current Shichibukai's, Laser charge up time leaves room to attack, certainly not the threat he used to be)
Buggy (He can't hurt ya, but you can't take him down either [he'll either run away, or take himself out by accident]; Surviving Mihawks attacks, taking CoC without getting knocked out, heck, look at all the people joining him [Mr3, Alvida, high bounties] he could have CoC himself, lolz)
Moria (failsauce)

I pretty much agree with this except that BB is stronger than Croc or Jinbe.

[ChaosMaster]

Hmm, well BB's darkness fruits main ability was that it cancel's out DF abilties, doesn't really affect Jimbei. And I don't see the Quake fruits ability to be able to counter actual water attacks, as water is a liquid, so vibrations won't really break it. And of course, underwater, there's really no challenge, e.g. had BB had the quake fruit at ID, he would have drowned himself by destroying the actual building and letting water in.

As for Croc, we'll I'm not sure if the quake fruit will do much to him, seeing it didn't do much against Aokiji and Akainu half the time. His Darkness ability is great for countering DF ability, but he has to be touching his opponent to counter the DF. If Croc's in that close, don't forget that his arm is a poisonous hook. As shown from BB's battle against Magellan, his not immune to poison. As Croc shown in his third fight against Luffy, he got hit on purpose to poison Luffy, so if BB drags Croc in, Croc would have just poisoned him. Against the quake fruit, it seems like they need to take big long swings to make use of it's power, Croc is fast, and unlike other Logia users (Kizaru and Enel), it seems like he can attack while being partially Sand. While BB is swinging his arm, Croc could possibly rush over and use his right hand Sables on BB's arm turning it into a stick, reducing it's strength thus pretty much neutralizing the Quake.

[halaros536]

Hmm, well BB's darkness fruits main ability was that it cancel's out DF abilties, doesn't really affect Jimbei. And I don't see the Quake fruits ability to be able to counter actual water attacks, as water is a liquid, so vibrations won't really break it. And of course, underwater, there's really no challenge, e.g. had BB had the quake fruit at ID, he would have drowned himself by destroying the actual building and letting water in.

I just go with powerscaling on that one.I consider Jinbe to be significantly weaker than Magellan thats why i'm sure that BB is stronger than Jinbe.

As for Croc, we'll I'm not sure if the quake fruit will do much to him, seeing it didn't do much against Aokiji and Akainu half the time. His Darkness ability is great for countering DF ability, but he has to be touching his opponent to counter the DF. If Croc's in that close, don't forget that his arm is a poisonous hook.

He can pull him inside Kurozu.I dont see why he couldnt beat Croc since he could beat Ace.

As shown from BB's battle against Magellan, his not immune to poison. As Croc shown in his third fight against Luffy, he got hit on purpose to poison Luffy, so if BB drags Croc in, Croc would have just poisoned him. Against the quake fruit, it seems like they need to take big long swings to make use of it's power, Croc is fast, and unlike other Logia users (Kizaru and Enel), it seems like he can attack while being partially Sand. While BB is swinging his arm, Croc could possibly rush over and use his right hand Sables on BB's arm turning it into a stick, reducing it's strength thus pretty much neutralizing the Quake.

If he is being pulled inside kurozu i doubt he can do all these things.

[ChaosMaster]

I just go with powerscaling on that one.I consider Jinbe to be significantly weaker than Magellan thats why i'm sure that BB is stronger than Jinbe.

BB and co got taken down by Magellan in 1 sec. I don't see how that makes him seem stronger than Jimbei.

He can pull him inside Kurozu.I dont see why he couldnt beat Croc since he could beat Ace.

Nothing to show that Croc can't match Ace, I mean Magma didn't melt Croc's sand, and since magma burnt up Ace's flame, I doubt Ace's flame would do much against Croc, prob stalemate.

If he is being pulled inside kurozu i doubt he can do all these things.

I don't see why not. When Ace was pulled in by Kurozu, he managed to throw 2 flame lances through BB. And, like I said, I'm not sure BB's quake would affect Croc, Croc has shown that his much faster than that anyway, that is to sables BB before he finishes his swing. And Croc has shown that his happy to take a hit to poison his opponent. So Kurozu would be BB's downfall.

[SCarred Luffy Lvl:Z]

No we have a very good idea about how strong Shanks was back then.By what he said about him losing his arm,its obvious that Wb respected his strength even back then and that comes from the guy who mocks the admirals.Even if Shanks hadnt reached his peak back then he was definitely pretty close imo.

Actually doesn't really prove anything, as he still calls Shanks brat, even then when Shanks came on his ship. Honestly to some1 of his "age", all people probably less than 40 or 50 are "young" and practically in their youth, (brats, in other words). And you have as far as we know the only 1-handed of the closest candidates for PK, in Shanks, and you don't think he's probably done more to be deserving of the response to him at the war, than 12 years ago? And you think Shanks and Mihawk are anywhere near predictable based on 12 years ago info? I just don't see it. Actually he should be reaching his peak somewhere around now, judging by WB.

Still i dont see how you know bthat he had no idea about his strength.Do we know somehow if those two had any interactions lately?

That's just my point. If we don't know if they had interactions lately than odds are, they had none that was shown, and if they did we don't know about them because they weren't shown. So it makes sense to treat as them not having any interactions lately.

I dont really think that they actually fought.

Which, WB and Shanks, or Shanks and Kaidou's crew?

See the link that i posted above he wasnt testing his strength.And i didnt say it was his weakest,but nothing suggests that it was his strongest either.

You do realize, your translations make no difference. They say pretty much the exact same thing , yet with fancier words, that don't even make as much sense as the 1's you consider mistranslations.
You really need to read that 1st link you posted if you're really telling us that makes better sense than the other translation. lol

Wow, and you really see this being all about "Attack Distance"? That's cute. And you really see this as the correct interpretation,that makes perfect sense? And you really see this as saying something completely, or even minutely different from what the other interpretation said?

lol, So he saw WB as being able to attack him, Mihawk, but Mihawk thought, "Oh man WB seems too far away even now when he seems closer in attack range, so let me purely measure the distance between us, using my sword slash/ that doubles as measuring tape. I don't need my strongest or weakest slash to do this since it's just acting as my ruler." Right, because that totally makes sense!?....
Either way, WB's "attack range" felt that much closer, for no such possible reason as WB being that superior to Mihawk, in Mihawks mind?, Right(sarcasm)?

And you know that how?Have we ever seens him in an important war again so that we could know that?And you didnt explain why didnt he kill Atmos.Isnt that enough for you to understand that he wasnt taking it seriously?

And how exactly do you know that either. My point is he's acted with the same attitude, every time we've seen him in the OPU. I never knew I had to explain why he didn't kill Atmos, or even who Atmos is? Nor do I understand why I have to explain why Doflamingo didn't kill Atmos.

Either way If you notice, during the panels, no 1 really tried to kill any1 besides Oars Jr., Luffy, Ace, and WB, And maybe Akainu(don't know if WB was really trying to kill him). Those that were important, to the now or future, were aimed at, so why would Doflamingo go out of his way, or even out of character, to unnecessarily kill some1?


These are the gists of when we've seen Doflamingo:

Ex. 1"They're attacking and wrecking your slave auction sir."
"Ah no big deal, I got other things to think about, it can be yours now, doesn't matter."

Ex. 2 "I'm just playing around with them Sengoku."
'Yes , I know what and how you pirate scum play. Now cut it out."
"Fine, Sengoku-san, you act like it's that big a deal."

Ex. 3 "Justice is justice is justice. Do you really think in a war like this, that justice really matters. This is just killing. WB's side, the government's side, who cares? Whoever wins this will sell it as Justice won over, no matter what.
The long term results are what determine if this was justice. And we'll be long gone by then. So who cares if "justice is even done". History itself would have decided if justice was done, here!

Ex. 4 " You should just go down Moira, this will be easy."
"But why are you doing this, I did nothing to you Doflamingo."
"Never said you did, and this isn't personal. But did you really think the WG would want your weak A$$ representing the Shichibukai all this time. The powers that be want you out."
"Who, can't be Sengoku, he wouldn't do this. He's not like that."
" Some1 higher up the ladder then Sengoku. Beats me who they are. But rejoice, You'll go out better than you deserve, and full with the glory of war. What better fate for you than to go out in war with the WB pirates. Now just die." (Now these are obvious summations, of the conversations, not exact wording, but they also convey the same attitude expressed by Doflamingo, when he said them, so don't bother me about exact wording.)

You've judged Doflamingo as holding back, primarily based on his attitude during the war. I am doing the same except basing it on his attitude every time we've seen him. And his attitude has not changed, which is why I ask: what does what you keep pointing out about his carefree attitude during the war proves he was any more or less carefree than ever before or after the war? In other words how was that carefree attitude something that proves he held back, at all, in any way?

Well i'm not too sure.He might didnt get any weaker at all,who knows?

Which only better proves my point if he didn't.
Although, by "weaker" it was said to mean , more so in terms of creativity, and innovating different ways to overcome any predictability in fights, via his conversion to obedient soldier, and odds are he has without his individuality.

I think we might be saying the same thing.When i said he isnt on his level i meant that i dont think he has any chance of beating him.That doesnt mean thaty Mihawk can beat him easily though.Dofla is a mystery for now he might turn up stronger or weaker than we are thinking.

That's where we go opposite, partly because when some1 has 0% chance of beating some1, I would to see the difference of like those followers of Usopp, and Croc. In other words A huge difference for "no chance" to be accurate. And therefore that would mean an easy defeat, if ) chance of winning.
And just based on his cunning, cleverness, and apparently versatility, he does have a chance at beating Mihawk. Especially if he can use his "string", or w.e. how I think he can use it.

Icant really say that i see your point here.Of course Kizaru's df is a major part of his strength.But someone who is on his level should be able to match him even though he has that particular df.So if two guys are around the same level means that people who are fodder for the one,should also be for the other.

My point here, is comparing WB, to a logia especially, and any other special fruits it might apply to, WB either way had to take those cuts and stab wounds, and they did contribute something significant to his dieing. If some1, as mentioned above ^, to those people who pretty much don't have to worry about anything either way because it will pass right through them harmlessly, thus putting no effort into dodging, or evasion, if the same thing had happened to them, Like Ao Kiji, Akainu, and Kizaru, those IYO are around the same level as WB, would have been finished off, and killed from those you see as fodder action's, alone. Not even by those like Luffy who you also see as fodder but in a "stronger way" in comparison. The bigger attacks and battles alone wouldn't have even been needed.

Sometimes things are just obvious.I dont think anyone would say that Dragon wont be a top-tier though his feats dont indicate so yet.And even feats can be judged subjectively many times so that doesnt really mean anything.

except that sometimes is not really applicable in this example.
But the margin for shown feats, is much more refined, and limited by what is shown. Yet the "hype" margin for differences can be as varied as how long people live, with variables even within the variations of similar opinions.

I know but Mihawk isnt the one who needs feats since he is a stated top-tier just like Kaidou who has no feats,but we know he is one of the top guys.

Actually, all we know is that Kaidou beat Moira. We know that Kaidoh is a Yonkou in the NW. He could be the Yonkou's, (albeit more properly proportioned in power, and ability) version of Buggy for all we know.

Buyt we havent seen either going all out.Hype is the only way to judge and Mihawk doesnt have some usual hype.He is practically stated to be a top-tier,but the same cannot be said about Kuma.

Think that's just a difference in opinion here. You say when the feats are equal (pretty much), but neither have gone full blast, then to decide the tie, you go to the hype to push 1 or the other over the edge. I thint when the feats are pretty much equal , even if either of them haven't gone full blast yet, then you wait for more feats to decide, and you decide nothing on hype. Or you just agree that so far apparently, they are equal. Hype, even big hype is an extremely unreliable, and varying source, no matter how great or little it is.

For instance, after all that Luffy has done, after the war, he got the biggest "hype" because he was Dragon's son, which has nothing to do with Luffy's own abilities, really.
For another instance now that WB is dead; if towards the end of the series, some1 new comes along with the potential, or skill, and ability, to be, or even beat the WB of previous glory, Or do so at present. Even If Luffy beats him, will Luffy get hype for that huge feat?

Maybe, maybe not, and how much? And that's where the problem with hype comes in, in it's too many inconsistencies, variables, and variations based on differing opinions.

Can he really control the power of it?I mean you seem to believe that because of his huge aoe which is similar tyo Mihawk's they have similar power.If that was the case his attack wasnt purposefully weakened. And lol no i dont think he would have killed the Vas.I consider them to be much greater than the straw hats,since they are people who could actually make a difference in the War.

Don't know what you mean here exactly? Huge what?..
Either way I believe Kuma's abilities were weakened because if it did that to bricks, and land, Oars Jr, flesh and bone, and rooted down earth, there's pretty much no way it couldn't do worse to human flesh and bones. Effectively killing them.

Yet what difference did they make during the War, really? Defeating Luffy, of the SH's they are so much greater than, or managing to sneak from behind and hook Marco into seastone handcuffs. Wow, really quite the "accomplishments" during the war. Not to mention 2 working in concert and Kizaru, had to take down a weakened Luffy. If you see Zolo as just his equal, than it would take the same thing, or more(no idea how the "weakened state" truly affected him) to take down just Zolo. And if you see Sanji as not that far from their strength than it would at least take 1 or more to take him down as well, (all of this pre-timeskip as well), not to mention that Luffy can apparently 1-shot a Giant, which means he can also probably 1-shot a VA Giant. And I'm sure combined, Nami, Robin, Usopp, Brook, Franky, and Chopper, can take out at least 3-4 VA's on their own terms.

I pretty much agree with this except that BB is stronger than Croc or Jinbe.
I just go with powerscaling on that one.I consider Jinbe to be significantly weaker than Magellan thats why i'm sure that BB is stronger than Jinbe..

But why do you see Jimbei as significantly weaker than Magellan?

Jimbei is probably 1 of the best people to fight both Magellan and BB, other than sword users. Because his style doesn't require up close tactics, he could be hurting them while not being near. And his lack of fruit will help him against BB taking away nothing even if he gets sucked in.

[ChaosMaster]

You do realize, your translations make no difference. They say pretty much the exact same thing , yet with fancier words, that don't even make as much sense as the 1's you consider mistranslations.
You really need to read that 1st link you posted if you're really telling us that makes better sense than the other translation. lol

Wow, and you really see this being all about "Attack Distance"? That's cute. And you really see this as the correct interpretation,that makes perfect sense? And you really see this as saying something completely, or even minutely different from what the other interpretation said?

lol, So he saw WB as being able to attack him, Mihawk, but Mihawk thought, "Oh man WB seems too far away even now when he seems closer in attack range, so let me purely measure the distance between us, using my sword slash/ that doubles as measuring tape. I don't need my strongest or weakest slash to do this since it's just acting as my ruler." Right, because that totally makes sense!?....
Either way, WB's "attack range" felt that much closer, for no such possible reason as WB being that superior to Mihawk, in Mihawks mind?, Right(sarcasm)?

I don't get what your on about here. But I just want to say my interpretation of that chapter is similar to Hals. That is, Mihawk, who's fought WB so many times in the past, knows of WB's power very well. He also knows that WB would have a clear advantage attacking from a range, where he could possibly take out a chunk of the Marines forces before charging in, giving himself a field advantage. From the copy I have, Mihawk says "I'm just guessing but... he looks too close""with his true attack range and ours..." which just shows he was checking what WB was up to. I mean put it this way, Zoro's flying slash attacks (the pound canon) is one of his specialties, but clearly not his best move. I mean his Asura attack did more damage to that PX than his 600 pound cannon + Luffy + Sanji. Another comparison would be in RPG games, your range attacks would be much weaker than your melee attacks, and I mean swords are design to cut, not have their attacks fly.