Theories abou seninjutsu,naruto and kyubi chakra

**ArmChairANBU** · 10-01-2008, 06:54 AM

One of the things that strikes me is that it is quite possible that seninjutsu is possibly not unique to naruto and jiraiya.

1. Seninjutsu requires a huge chakra so its quite possible that madara has the capability to use seninjutsu ( see how he blocked suigetsu's blade )

2. When jiraiya finishes teaching yahiko, konan and nagato shinobi techniques he remarks that nagato has mastered all the 6 types of chakra in just three years. correct me if i am wrong but there are only 5 types of chakra ie fire, water, earth , lightning and wind.so at the time it bugged me , but now since we have learned about seninjustsu , i feel that the 6th type is nature chakra.

so pein will probably have a huge chakra and therefore be able to use an enormous amount seninjustu (nature) chakra.

3. with regards to naruto , i feel that we have not seen the real naruto (obviously) because , if you remember when naruto was training using kagebunshin , trying to complete the rasenshuriken which he uses on kakuzu.
now during that fight when naruto screws up his first attempt , tenzou remarks to kakashi that we haven't seen the real naruto yet. to me this implies that naruto may have used kagebunshin training to learn a lot of other jutsu quickly and maybe learn to harness chakra types other than just wind type chakra which also boosts the number and types of techniques he can learn.

4. the kyubi and naruto is a little complicated as jiraiya said that naruto will absorb the chakra of the kyubi and that eventually the seal will fade away into nothingness. my idea is that naruto will fight pein and even with the seninjutsu boost will be loosing ( due to reasons given above) and at that point will be forced to open the seal with the key that jiraiya asked that frog to give him and commence an impromptu chakra absorption of the kyubi. the resulting increase in chakra ( once he has absorbed the kyubi's chakra ) will enable him to call on a massively increased amount of seninjutsu ( nature ) chakra which will enable him to fight pein equally and win.

This is my first thread people

(hope its not too long) let me know what you think.

-ArmChairAnbu

**tatsukai1990** · 10-01-2008, 07:27 AM

wrong area.
this goes into the theories section.
1.seninjutsu is using nature energy as chakra, so unless madara learned how to use it, he doesnt have it. and it seems that only the toads know about it.
neither does pain, jiraiya didnt have ability to teach it. he didnt take the three kids to toad mountain, and to learn it you need toad oil, which evaporates when you arent on the mountain.

2.i just read through the jiraiya pain fight. he doesnt say that nagato learned all 6 types. he says the nagato learned all that he had to teach in 3 years. and there are more the 5 types, there are only 5 major elements,
fire wind water earth lightning
minor: dark and light
possibly many more.

3. this is the only thing i sorta agree with, naruto probably learned alot more, but hasnt shown it yet.

4.to use kyubi chakra, he need to be emotionally stressed.
to use senjutsu/ nature chakra he needs to be calm. its impossible to be stressed and calm at the same time, so he wont be able to use both.

also, you dont need large chakra reserves to learn senjutsu, large chakra jsut means that you will be able to use more nature chakra.
there has to be a balance, so having more regular chakra will mean you can use more nature chakra

**Rokudaime Sennin ™** · 10-01-2008, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by tatsukai1990

wrong area.
this goes into the theories section.
1.seninjutsu is using nature energy as chakra, so unless madara learned how to use it, he doesnt have it. and it seems that only the toads know about it.
neither does pain, jiraiya didnt have ability to teach it. he didnt take the three kids to toad mountain, and to learn it you need toad oil, which evaporates when you arent on the mountain.

I think Jiraiya was very much capable of teaching senjutsu, just not as good as fukasaku sennin. You don't need toad oil to learn it. Fukasaku said the oil only makes it easier, it was very much possible to learn to sense "natural" energy through meditation albeit it would take much longer.

4.to use kyubi chakra, he need to be emotionally stressed.
to use senjutsu/ nature chakra he needs to be calm. its impossible to be stressed and calm at the same time, so he wont be able to use both.

good point, but you forget the fact that kyubi's yang chakra is mixing with Naruto's chakra continously because of the way minato did the hakke seal. It is only the kyubi's yin chakra that is released through anger and emotional stress. Kyubi's yang chakra is there with naruto's own to make a much larger pool of chakra. Hence why I believe it allowed Naruto to pull in much greater amount of natural chakra and balance it especially when he jumped into the pool of oil. If it weren't for that yang chakra, it would've taken Naruto much longer to learn senjutsu. So it's still very much possible for Naruto's own chakra, natural chakra, part of kyubi's chakra to work together in harmony. Naruto's power would be unbelievable.

also, you dont need large chakra reserves to learn senjutsu, large chakra just means that you will be able to use more nature chakra.
there has to be a balance, so having more regular chakra will mean you can use more nature chakra

............

**ArmChairANBU** · 10-01-2008, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by •Rokudaime Sennin• ™

............

Good point rokudaime sennin

didn't think about the about the yin/yang nature of the seal.
and thanks for posting

to rokudaime and tatsukai.

**ArmChairANBU** · 10-01-2008, 07:43 AM

wrong area.
this goes into the theories section.

Sorry this is my first thread so , what should i do ( do i have to move it ? , if so how?)

Originally Posted by tatsukai1990

wrong area.
this goes into the theories section.
1.seninjutsu is using nature energy as chakra, so unless madara learned how to use it, he doesnt have it. and it seems that only the toads know about it.
neither does pain, jiraiya didnt have ability to teach it. he didnt take the three kids to toad mountain, and to learn it you need toad oil, which evaporates when you arent on the mountain.

Pein has the rinnegan ( he is the rikudo sennin ? ) so he may not need toad oil to learn how to harness nature chakra.
Madara lived through a time where power was to be acquired at all costs and i think a guy like him who became so powerful , he would have at least tried to get this power. ( ill agree with you that he may not have it though)

2.i just read through the jiraiya pain fight. he doesnt say that nagato learned all 6 types. he says the nagato learned all that he had to teach in 3 years. and there are more the 5 types, there are only 5 major elements,
fire wind water earth lightning
minor: dark and light
possibly many more.

again i feel that pein might be a able to learn the same through the rinnegan which is a doujutsu which can see all the chakra types(?)

3. this is the only thing i sorta agree with, naruto probably learned alot more, but hasnt shown it yet.

4.to use kyubi chakra, he need to be emotionally stressed.
to use senjutsu/ nature chakra he needs to be calm. its impossible to be stressed and calm at the same time, so he wont be able to use both.

also, you dont need large chakra reserves to learn senjutsu, large chakra jsut means that you will be able to use more nature chakra.
there has to be a balance, so having more regular chakra will mean you can use more nature chakra

I feel that he will have to try and absorb the kyubi's chakra ( and convert it into his own as remember , the kyubi chakra has been leaking into him since he was born and he has a tolerance for it.see sakura's wound at the hand of kyubi naruto.) having converted the chakra he would as you say have a larger base chakra which means he will be able to use more nature chakra.

--ArmChairAnbu

**Rokudaime Sennin ™** · 10-01-2008, 07:30 AM

1. Madara doesn't know senjutsu, he's just freakin strong. The invincible immortal, I would expect nothing less of him than to block that sword like it was made of cardboard. Other than Jiraiya, Naruto, and the toad sages, the one I'd expect to be trained in the sage arts is Minato. We just don't know yet but it would be very plausible considering the fact that he's Jiraiya's pupil and also well versed in toad summonings. Also he would need huge amount of own chakra to be able to overpower kyubi's chakra during the shikifuuin, and Natural chakra provides that.

2. I theorized also that the 6th type of chakra might be "nature" chakra and that Pain might also know senjutsu because of him mastering the 6 types of chakras. But it's wrong because of 2 facts. Pain was surprised when he saw Jiraiya go into Hermit (Sage) mode. He noticed that Jiraiya had gotten much faster but didn't know the reason why. Also the databook 3 said that there's only 5 types of chakra. The 6 types could've possibly been a typo, we won't know for a while. But I do believe that Pain is very much capable of learning senjutsu. Since the rinnegan gives the user ability to perform all jutsus. Rikudou sennin is another good candidate for knowing the sage arts that could've then been only known by the toads. (kinda like lost knowledge recovered by the head toad) There's definitely some sort of relationship there.

3. Of course Naruto is hiding alot of his most powerful jutsus. This might also include the ability to control the kyubi to a greater extent.

4. I think the kyubi chakra helped Naruto learn senjutsu faster since it could've balanced the enormous Natural energy Naruto was pulling in, thus preventing him from turning into a toad. And vice versa, that natural energy can also be used to balance the kyubi chakra if Naruto transforms and would still stay in control.

**Afro Thunda** · 10-01-2008, 07:35 AM

Well now that we know that anyone who's mastered or uses Senjutsu takes on a noticeable characteristic of a frog or the black markings around Naruto's eyes, it would seem that only the frogs can teach it. As for Pein, after Jiraiya entered Sage Mode, he remarked that all the Sannin have unique abilities. So that tells me it was the first time he witnessed it and by the same token, it would be the first time he came across Senjutsu as well.

3. This couldn't have been the case. Naruto was too busy trying to master the Rasenshuriken and when he used it against Kakuzu, it was only 50% complete. It took Naruto a lot of time just to get used to using the Wind element, he couldn't have learned to use other elements in between the time Kakashi left with Shikamaru's team and the time he showed up with Yamato. Again, he was supposed to be focusing on the Rasenshuriken since it was the point of his training.

4. I don't see all of that happening in the course of one fight. Naruto is still unable to control the Kyuubi's chakra at this point, thats why he's learning Senjutsu. So messing with the seal isn't going to help him at all.