Sasuke's Non-EMS.. EMS. and why its bad for him

[Titokhan]

ok, i've made a few references to this in general threads.. but posting it here is where you put up or shut up so to speak..

Sasuke, since 'gaining' his MS, has used it a few times and is apparently already starting to feel the effects of the 'losing your sight' aspect of the MS. before I get into my theory, lets review the known facts about MS/EMS and how Sasuke's different path to each

FACT (at least up until Sasuke): the upgrade from 3 tomoe sharingan to MS ends up with a MS pattern with 3 distinctive sides.. Sasuke's MS - 6 sided..

FACT (up until Sasuke.. and to an extent kakashi. but we've never learned how kakashi was able to activate his MS): to activate the MS, you had to kill your best friend. Sasuke has, if we really want to be overly technical, only killed Itachi (and to an extent, even that is questionable). he didnt kill Orochimaru, he allowed him to start the soul transfer ritual, then simply overpowered him in his own dimension with his willpower. Oro was effectively trapped in Sasuke's body with no say in what was going on (at least until Sasuke totally ran out of chakra fighting Itachi). and the MS techniques he does have (the ones we've seen him use at least) were transferred to him by Itachi right before he died. its possible that Itachi's were just the base dojutsu that all uchiha MS get upon activation, but thats a theory for another day

FACT (again, up until Sasuke): the six sided EMS was gained by removing your brothers MS activated eyes and implanting them in your own head. Sasuke's MS is already 6 sided..

FACT (up until sasuke again, though we havent seen Madara activate his beyond normal 3 tomoed sharingan yet as a comaprison): when a person activates the MS (at least when thier eye is open to see it) the tomoes from the sharingan 'evolve' into thier MS pattern. Sasuke has never has his eyes open during the evolution process on the MS that we know of

ok, heres where my theory comes in..

1)unless Itachi was Sasuke's true best friend and not Naruto, he shouldn't be able to activate MS at all. let alone have a 6 sided EMS style pattern

2) Then there's the MS pattern itself. Kishi has gone to at least some effort to make every other MS at least look like the next step in sharingan evolution, yet makes Sasuke's MS 6 sided. there has to be plot hole no jutsu explanation somewhere down the line

3) the EMS pattern we have seen (along with being 6 sided) is the melding of the 2 MS patterns used to create it. Sasuke's natural 6 sided MS seems to have no compatibility with Itachi's 'normal' 3 sided MS pattern. this is the part where I am the most confused about, and trying to figure it out is making my head hurt.. so i'll leave this be for now

4) if Sasuke's MS is really an EMS, he hasn't met the requirement for THAT either (though he has itachi's eyes handy should that prove needed). and as a result, his eyes are burning out at least twice as fast as they would if it were a 'normal' MS. Assuming Itachi didnt totally burn out his eyes during thier fight (which is entirely possible), I suppose he can at least fill that requirement


I've probably left holes in this big enough to put the hokage's mansion in, but im doing this in total off the top of my head mode using as many actual facts as possible, and its 1 in the morning as im writing it

I hope its an enjoyable read, and lok forward to the more in the know types here blowing it to shreds or actually supporting it

[Afro Thunda]

Its only an assumption so far that Sasuke's eyes could be burning out twice as fast since he's got Itachi's MS techniques as well as his own. There's no real way to be sure. It would kinda be a redundant thing if his eyes were really burning out twice as fast. Just having the MS means you'll go blind and every subsequent use speeds the process up. So I believe x2 descent into blindness would be pointless.

Seeing as how every MS we've seen has been unique, Sasuke hasn't broken the mold yet. His MS has 6 points, but you can divide that up into 3 equal parts so its all good.

[Advocat]

Its only an assumption so far that Sasuke's eyes could be burning out twice as fast since he's got Itachi's MS techniques as well as his own. There's no real way to be sure. It would kinda be a redundant thing if his eyes were really burning out twice as fast. Just having the MS means you'll go blind and every subsequent use speeds the process up. So I believe x2 descent into blindness would be pointless.

Seeing as how every MS we've seen has been unique, Sasuke hasn't broken the mold yet. His MS has 6 points, but you can divide that up into 3 equal parts so its all good.

Every MS we've seen has been unique? Besides Sauske, we've seen a total of two: Itachi's and Kakashi's. And frankly we're not entirely sure how Kakashi's MS even works or how he got it. Thus, I tend to void out Kakashi's case as an exception not the rule. Until Sauske or Madara uses a MS technique we haven't seen before, I remain unconvinced.

Also, we're not entirely sure of the rate that the MS begins to wear out the user. I mean, Sauske used his MS I think 3-4 times MINIMUM getting killer bee, thats bound to cause a huge amount of strain. Itachi could barely move after using his MS techs, much less multiple times in a row, yet Sauske is able to use many of them repeatedly in the same day and only now feels a slight effect.

To the OP: I think you take the idea of "friendship" much too literally, I suspect it is something more like "the person closest to you" or "the person you care about the most," which can both be used to describe friendship. So I don't think getting the MS from killing Itachi is foul play.

To the credit of this theory though, why Sauske's eyes have 6 features instead of 3, and the idea that Itachi implanted his techniques is being resolved here. I remember when we first saw his eyes we were positive it was the EMS, since it was 6 sided and Itachi transfered his "eyes" so to speak, but alas we were proved wrong by the manga, which clearly stated that although Sauske can take the EMS anytime he wants to, he chooses not to.

The idea of a "double MS" is not far fetched, and I suspect it may have something to do with Sauske's ability to cancel his own Amaterasu, since he used BOTH his eyes instead of one. Hadn't considered it, but it holds some weight. Nice find.

[Afro Thunda]

Every MS we've seen has been unique? Besides Sauske, we've seen a total of two: Itachi's and Kakashi's. And frankly we're not entirely sure how Kakashi's MS even works or how he got it. Thus, I tend to void out Kakashi's case as an exception not the rule. Until Sauske or Madara uses a MS technique we haven't seen before, I remain unconvinced.

Also, we're not entirely sure of the rate that the MS begins to wear out the user. I mean, Sauske used his MS I think 3-4 times MINIMUM getting killer bee, thats bound to cause a huge amount of strain. Itachi could barely move after using his MS techs, much less multiple times in a row, yet Sauske is able to use many of them repeatedly in the same day and only now feels a slight effect.

To the OP: I think you take the idea of "friendship" much too literally, I suspect it is something more like "the person closest to you" or "the person you care about the most," which can both be used to describe friendship. So I don't think getting the MS from killing Itachi is foul play.

To the credit of this theory though, why Sauske's eyes have 6 features instead of 3, and the idea that Itachi implanted his techniques is being resolved here. I remember when we first saw his eyes we were positive it was the EMS, since it was 6 sided and Itachi transfered his "eyes" so to speak, but alas we were proved wrong by the manga, which clearly stated that although Sauske can take the EMS anytime he wants to, he chooses not to.

The idea of a "double MS" is not far fetched, and I suspect it may have something to do with Sauske's ability to cancel his own Amaterasu, since he used BOTH his eyes instead of one. Hadn't considered it, but it holds some weight. Nice find.

I meant to say "Each MS design is different". Honestly, I don't believe its too much of a stretch to assume the MS techniques would be different for each user. But I understand why you're not convinced yet.

Anyways, I think you mixed up who was barely able to move after using their MS techniques. Itachi was still fully mobile after using his MS techniques. Earlier in the manga, he used Tsukiyomi twice and Amaterasu once in the same day and was still able to run away. And in his fight with Sasuke, he used Tsukiyomi, Amaterasu (twice), and then Susanoo and was still able to move pretty well.

Kakashi, on the other hand, couldn't move at all after using his MS jutsu 3 times.

[Advocat]

I meant to say "Each MS design is different". Honestly, I don't believe its too much of a stretch to assume the MS techniques would be different for each user. But I understand why you're not convinced yet.

Anyways, I think you mixed up who was barely able to move after using their MS techniques. Itachi was still fully mobile after using his MS techniques. Earlier in the manga, he used Tsukiyomi twice and Amaterasu once in the same day and was still able to run away. And in his fight with Sasuke, he used Tsukiyomi, Amaterasu (twice), and then Susanoo and was still able to move pretty well.

Kakashi, on the other hand, couldn't move at all after using his MS jutsu 3 times.

Oh, whoops! I'm sorry about that misunderstanding, my bad.

I distinctly remember Itachi being gretly fatigued after using his techniiques each time, the most recent case being when he used Tsukyomi on Sauske he didn't have the strength to dodge Sauske's shadow shuriken trap thing, and barely being able to dodge Sauske's fire jutsu because of the strain of using Amaterasu. I could be mistaken on this point though, I'll rifle through some chapters tomorrow when I'm not tired.

[lazybum]

for the ms design, i agree with afro that it can simply be divided into 3 equivalent parts, so till it shows in the manga that it has other meaning, i'll stick to him having a normal ms, n as for the ms jutsu's, that is still to be covered n explained in the manga
n as for sasuke's after-shock, it was probably just a little side-effect for using the ms first time n that too about 3-4 times in one fight

[Afro Thunda]

Oh, whoops! I'm sorry about that misunderstanding, my bad.

I distinctly remember Itachi being gretly fatigued after using his techniiques each time, the most recent case being when he used Tsukyomi on Sauske he didn't have the strength to dodge Sauske's shadow shuriken trap thing, and barely being able to dodge Sauske's fire jutsu because of the strain of using Amaterasu. I could be mistaken on this point though, I'll rifle through some chapters tomorrow when I'm not tired.

Nah its okay, I wasn't clear about that.

You're right in saying that Itachi was fatigued after using Tsukiyomi, but remember, the MS techniques take loads of chakra as well. I can't really say anything about the true reason Itachi wasn't able to dodge the shuriken trap thing. But I'd say it would have something to do with his vision since it temporarily distorted after Tsukiyomi.

I agree with you on the fact that Itachi barely dodged Sasuke's fire jutsu because of the strain of Amaterasu though. He used it twice before Sasuke initiated that attack. But like I said, he wasn't fatigued to the point that he couldn't move under his own power though.

[Immortal-JyNxX]

There's one thing everyone is failing to pay attention to. EMS pattern is a mixture of both brothers MS. Sasuke's MS doesn't show any trace of Itachi's MS pattern.

[ydoc]

if i remember correctly he got it while on a mission with his friend who was a sharingan user in the fight Kakashi lost the use of his eye and his friend was dieing as a final gift his friend gave him his eye to replace the one he lost.

perhaps he fulfilled the role of killing his friend on that first mission he just never really knew how to use it till later. because although i am sure he would have died anyway kakashi probably hastened his death by accepting the eye.

Another possible is that the friend of Kakashi merely had the power already when he transferred the eye to kakashi much the way itachi did to sasuke.

[Bluetackman]

Sasuke, since 'gaining' his MS, has used it a few times and is apparently already starting to feel the effects of the 'losing your sight' aspect of the MS.

Surely if he is starting to go blind from the powers, then he doesnt have EMS because with EMS you dont go blind from using your powers.