Translation Issue and Clarification: Tobi's Lines

[Jink]

This should clear up a lot of shit that's been flying around in the Naruto section. Courtesy of the folks at MH.

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Heyas everybody

This thread is supposed to bring some clearance on the Tobi is who issue that got out with ch364.
To be more exact, this thread shall be about the Pages 17/18 of Chapter 364.

Raw for Chapter 364 Page 17/18:


Translations of the lines of Chapter 364 Page 17/18:
Translation notes to be found after these translations

by Itsumobasho:

page 17
????: And when that happens, everything will go back to the way they should be.

page 18
Tobi: The real power of the Sharingan...
Tobi: The power... the power of Uchiha Madara...

by Hisshouburaiken:

Page 17:
???: And when they do, everything will be as it should.

SFX: Step

SFX: Rummmmmmble

SFX: Step splash

SFX: CRACKCRACKOOOM

Page 18:
????: The Sharingan's true power...
My power...Uchiha Madara's power...

by Iwanin and Nihongaeri:

Page 17.

Panel 1, Evil Mastermind.

そうなれば全てが本来の形に戻るのだ…

And with that, it will all return to its rightful state of being...

(*Lit. its original, unblemished form, for those who wish to look deeply into the line).

Page 18.

Uchiha Madara.

写輪眼の本当の力が…このうちはマダラの力が」

Sharingan will regain its true power... as will I, Uchiha Madara*!

Translation Notes/Comments by Translators above/out of the translators threads:

Comment by Hisshouburaiken:

The person in the Tobi mask at the end of 364 is, without question, Uchiha Madara.

Whether he is also the same goofball we all know and love, or if said goofball was just copying his look, remains to be seen.

Ji endo.

Translation Note by Iwanin and Nihongaeri:

*UPDATED AND VERY IMPORTANT NOTE. If anyone decides to use this translation for scanlating, I suggest the group retain the following explanatory note. Originally, I'd stated the line above was terminated in mid sentence, Nihongaeri's take on it (see his post below) made infinitely more sense than my own (God bless him!). Anyhow, basically what the character is saying is that once Akatsuki achieves its objective, Sharingan shall regain its original, ostensibly more powerful form, and thus, so will he, Uchiha Madara. In other words, among the things which will regain their original form are the Sharingan's true power and his own. 全てが本来の形に戻るのだ。, where 全て ＝写輪眼の本当の力やうちはマダラの力など。As for whether or not the character speaking is Uchiha Madara, as to this, there is no doubt. This part, このうちはマダラの力, has been construed by some to mean "this power, the power of Uchiha Madara." They're reading it like this: この　うちはマダラの力。The way they should be reading it is like this: このうちはマダラの　力。When この precedes the name of a person (in this case, Uchiha Madara), the person referenced is the speaker himself. It's a way for the speaker to indicate that he or she is a real big deal (in his or her mind, anyway). And no, it's not a "vague" sentence, or one which could be read both ways: the way we're indicating here is the only way to interpret the sentence, at least as far as whether the speaker is Uchiha Madara or not. Whether Madara is possessing someone else's body or if Tobi's just a robot through which his voice comes out,is another matter altogether.

for further translation explanation notes on Iwanins and Nihongaeris interpretation, please read the first page of this thread:
http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16010
It has much info on the reasons for the interpretation.

If I missed any essential translations or comments, feel free to post them here but remember not to discuss the translation/interpretation issues in case you don't have a good handling of the Japanese language and how to translate it into English.

I hope this thread will help clarify this issue a bit for everyone.

[Ninjastik]

he says uchiha madara's power not my power, uchia madara's powers

[Shock]

maybe there trying to revive Uchiha Madara or something with the big statue, or maybe their trying to transfer Uchiha Madara into Sasuke all Alchemist style??? Just thoughts

[Chimie]

Those translations are wrong, he never says "I AM MADARA." Learn Japanese then come back and say that.

He says

写輪眼の本当の力が

この
うちはまだらの力が

Shyaringan no honto no Chikara ga,
Kono Uchiha Madara no Chikara ga,

Then he leaves.

That is a very easy translation, even beginner translators should understand, he says
Sharingan's True Power; The(This) power of Uchiha Madara.

He never says "My power" and He is not referring to himself, otherwise it would be worded differently, now, I'm not saying he isn't Madara, however, he did NOT say he was.

The side of the next page says:
稲光が明かす真実！　”暁”の黒幕はトビ...そしてその目には写輪眼が！　三人目のうちは一族！？　雷鳴 を呼ぶ

inabikari ga akasushinjitsu! Akatsuki no kuromaku ha TOBI!... Soshite sono me niwa sharinngan ga! sannin me no uchiha ichizoku! Raimeiwoyobu!

The Truth revealed in a flash of lightning, The person pulling the strings behind Akatsuki is really Tobi! And That eye has sharingan! The third member of the Uchiha family! The thunder crashes

-
At the bottom is says (Next chapter, ect.)

暁最強の男がナルトを追う
次号、Cカラー「いたちを追え」

akatsuki saikyou no otoko ga naruto ou
jigou,senta karaa [Itachi wo oe!]

Akatsuki's strongest man is chasing after naruto
next Chapter [The chase for Itachi]

---

Just to clear it up, it never says he is Madara... Infact, I highly disagree with Hisshouburaiken's translations in this chapter. Hisshouburaiken is a smart guy and a very talented translator, but I dont agree. =(

Lots of drama and strife came out of these translations, which might have been a bit rushed.

A lot of people take the Kono to refer to person in particular. However, He is refering to "This power of Uchiha Madara" Wouldn't this power be the Sharingan itself?

Most of your post I agree with, He does have the power of Madara, however, that doesn't mean he IS madara. I'm not arguing that he doesn't have Madaras power, or that he was referring to someone else.

The line is Indicating that Tobi has Madara's "Legacy" of the Sharingan, however, indicating that he is in fact, not Madara.

As I've stated in other threads.

[K-oz]

Jink seriously just give it a rest already. I love debates as much as anyone but even I know where to draw the line. This particular debate is pointless because of the translation issue it requires all of us to just be patient n wait to be given a bit more details

[Asura]

Heh, I'm still thinking that Tobi is still Obito for some reason...

Anyways, the way I rationalize it is that maybe Uchiha Madara was the founding father or something of the Sharingan. And Tobi (who could, in some odd twist of events, be Obito) is working to somehow revive maybe not Madara himself, but the original (and assumingly more supreme) version of the Sharingan. Although, it seems kind of odd that someone would collect nine immensely powerful beasts to just to gain a new pair of eyes... O.o

[Alterno]

Ok... believe whatever you want guys.

I had my doubts too, but I just had nice MSN messenger chat with a friend. He is japanese by the way and speaks japanese (duh!) and spanish.

Note: most of the translators while they try to stick to the text much as possible, they have to reorganize it in order to give the text coherence in another language.

This how he translated/explained it to me.
As he translated to me in spanish and my translation to english.

Español.
Y cuando ocurra, todo volvera hacer como era
El sharingan recuperara su verdadera naturaleza, es mi volutand. Uchiha Madara's will

English.
And when this happens, every thing will be like it was
The Sharingan will return to it's own nature, is my will, Uchiha's Madara will.

Ok now as part of the conversation we had...

1. He told me that this not the first time when a manga charactar refers about himself being a powerful being in third person, he took vegeta as example.
2. He is more worried about how Uchiha Madara looks behind the mask, than knowing if he is Uchiha madara or not, as are his friends. In other words they have not doubt.
3. And third and just left as doubt. He said that if he is not Uchiha Madara, which he said that is not the case. He is someone who is 100% sure that he is Uchiha Madara.

Note: He is japanese, he actually lives in japan and he translated that to me in a way that I could understand it.

I'll stick with him, Tobi is madara.
However, keep the suspense...

[Kron]

I think this pretty much clears things up, just let Obito rest in peace people...

[oOYourdadOo]

Tobi is Obito, you'll see!

[Alterno]

Tobi is Obito, you'll see!

Tobi is...... Batman

enouff said