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  1. #1
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
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    Mangekyō Sharingan - There is no difference

    This thread is not exactly ground breaking stuff but the point I wish to make here is that the Mangekyō Sharingan's abilities are all the same its up to the user and their skill that decides how they are exercised.

    There seems to be some confusion over Madara's, Itachi's & Shisui's MS Genjutsu abilities which I wanted to clear up once and for all. If you look at the base Sharingan's abilities it has 2 main parts.

    - "The Eye of Insight" which deals with the ability to see chakra , copy jutsu & predict motion.

    - "The Eye of Hypnotism" which deals with the innate visual based Genjutsu abilities to manipulate opponents.


    The Eye of of Hypnotism part is where the MS Genjutsu of the 3 vary based on their particular skills and innovation comes from.


    Madara's MS Genjutsu = Seems to place the person under total control the same way he subdues the Kyuubi to be totally under his control with no free will.

    Itachi's "Tsukiyomi" = Allows him to manipulate the victims perception of time so that a mere few seconds can be perceived as days.

    Shisui's "Kotoamatsukami" = Subtly hypnotizes the user by placing subliminal commands in their sub conscious that allows them to be manipulated without knowing it.

    Sasuke's skill in Genjutsu is lower than these 3 so his MS genjutsu is not very defined in any one area. He has show a mixture of abilities like forcing a shinobi to spill information by placing them under his control and using it to torture KB with imaginary spikes through his body. He could create his one unique version of Genjutsu manipulation but since Sasuke is more a Ninjutsu type he shows more skill with Amaterasu & Susanoo.


    The MS version of Genjutsu are more powerful than the base Sharingan's but the abilities are essentially the same as we have seen Kakashi using subtle hypnotism on Zabuza to force him to make hand seals that he could then copy. This is essentially the same skill Shisui uses but Shisui's is at a more refined level.

    Just as we have seen Itachi place a woman under his control to distract Jiraiya or Sasuke using his to control Manda both of which is similar to Madara's style MS to over take the victim subduing their will.


    So the end point is they all have the same base ability it just depends on their skill and style of Genjutsu which determines how they use it.


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  2. #2
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    There is still the question of the transplants.

    If the original owner reached the MS level and had his eye transplanted to someone else, then the new owner would have the same sets of MS skills at the same power. On the other hand if the eye was transplanted before the awakening of MS (before reaching it maturity/true form/being feeded with enough of Uchiha's soul ?) and if a new owner reached the MS level, then his set of skills would be different.

    It's possible that the current eye that Tobi uses for teleportation, was originally transplanted to a non-uchiha and after awakening the MS, taken back by the masked man. This would explain at the same time, why he doesn't posses genjutsu power at a level that once allowed him to control a kage level ninja.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Maximo's Avatar
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    Nevertheless, each uchiha has different MS pattern and also jutsus that come along. Proof ? Shishui had MS, but there is no evidence at all that he could use any MS jutsu other than Koto-blabla-something. Tobi is clearly using space time MS ninjutsu similiar to Kakashi. Itachi gave his powers to Sasuke, hence why Sasuke can use Amaterasu .. he might unluck his own special MS jutsu sooner or later
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  4. #4
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Some Uchihas ALSO develop a space time related Jutsu. I refer to Kakashi's and Madara's.

    @ Maximo. It is strongly inplied that Sasuke has his own Amaterasu, separater from Itachi's. Although Now that he has Itachi's eyes, there may be an iteresting new twist to his MS techniques.

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  5. #5
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    I'm not sure, but POW didn't say that all MS jutsu are the same, he said that the basic works of a Sharingan and the MS are the same, only that MS version is stronger and it's strenght depends on the user.

    Those basic powers (as said by POW) are insight reading and genjutsu. So each of the MS users would have those power but powered up thanks to their MS. Still we didn't see Kakashi (Tobi as well ?) doing an MS genjutsu (on the other hand we have seen it from Sasuke, even if weak compared to top Uchiha, it was still stronger than his normal one (I think ;p)).


    Edit:

    Oh yeah, someone once had a theory that Madara's EMS justsu allowed him to copy other MS jutsu or even kekkei genkai, but the case of Danzou and Itachi clearly shows that by only equipping someone else MS (lol, it doesn't even need to be a human ;p)) you can use his powers at the same level (still you would need Hashirama's power to use it frequently, just like Tobi does). In other words, I doubt that the sharingan Tobi posses originated from Madara.

    This as well explains why only close related members could gain EMS by exchanging eyes, because if the blood is to different, the eye would only be able to activate each decade, or even wouldn't work at all, unless you possesed Hashirama's cells.
    Last edited by Zero; 08-16-2011 at 12:06 PM.

  6. #6
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    we dont know if madara's space/time jutsu is related in any way to his MS, so ppl shouldnt assume that it does, with that said, i think that ppl chakra affinity also comes into play, so example itachi might have been a genjutsu type hence why his genjutsu was so powerful.

    also maximo, sasuke cant use ameratsu bcoz itachi gave his powers to sasuke, sasuke can use ameratsu simply bcoz he has the MS or atleast thats my take on it. i dont actually think that MS grants a unique jutsu, i think MS just provide some standard powers to the user and nothing more.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Maximo's Avatar
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    Now that I think about it, if Hashirama was given sharingan then he would gain power comparable to Rikudou .. just a random thought.
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  8. #8
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    well yes and no, hashirama would only get comparable powers to the rikkudo sage if he got rinnegan, but in order to get that he would need something like sharingan(and then do like madara and use 1 sharingan and 1 rinnegan eye) or just infuse himself with uchiha blood and then develop or receive rinnegan.

  9. #9
    Elder Brother EliteKage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by POW View Post
    This thread is not exactly ground breaking stuff but the point I wish to make here is that the Mangekyō Sharingan's abilities are all the same its up to the user and their skill that decides how they are exercised.

    There seems to be some confusion over Madara's, Itachi's & Shisui's MS Genjutsu abilities which I wanted to clear up once and for all. If you look at the base Sharingan's abilities it has 2 main parts.

    - "The Eye of Insight" which deals with the ability to see chakra , copy jutsu & predict motion.

    - "The Eye of Hypnotism" which deals with the innate visual based Genjutsu abilities to manipulate opponents.


    The Eye of of Hypnotism part is where the MS Genjutsu of the 3 vary based on their particular skills and innovation comes from.


    Madara's MS Genjutsu = Seems to place the person under total control the same way he subdues the Kyuubi to be totally under his control with no free will.

    Itachi's "Tsukiyomi" = Allows him to manipulate the victims perception of time so that a mere few seconds can be perceived as days.

    Shisui's "Kotoamatsukami" = Subtly hypnotizes the user by placing subliminal commands in their sub conscious that allows them to be manipulated without knowing it.

    Sasuke's skill in Genjutsu is lower than these 3 so his MS genjutsu is not very defined in any one area. He has show a mixture of abilities like forcing a shinobi to spill information by placing them under his control and using it to torture KB with imaginary spikes through his body. He could create his one unique version of Genjutsu manipulation but since Sasuke is more a Ninjutsu type he shows more skill with Amaterasu & Susanoo.


    The MS version of Genjutsu are more powerful than the base Sharingan's but the abilities are essentially the same as we have seen Kakashi using subtle hypnotism on Zabuza to force him to make hand seals that he could then copy. This is essentially the same skill Shisui uses but Shisui's is at a more refined level.

    Just as we have seen Itachi place a woman under his control to distract Jiraiya or Sasuke using his to control Manda both of which is similar to Madara's style MS to over take the victim subduing their will.


    So the end point is they all have the same base ability it just depends on their skill and style of Genjutsu which determines how they use it.
    Madara's jutsu is Tskuyomi as well, due to the fact that his ultimate jutsu is called inifinite t-yomi after all. I wouldnt call Madaras MS genjutsu by another name.

    Its also important to keep in mind that unlike Itachis t-yomi, Shisui was capable of using the k-kami genjutsu with BOTH eyes. I wonder what that means if anything. Perhaps Shisui was able to use t-yomi in one eye and k-kami was simple an extra power up he was lucky to get. I mean using a jutsu once every 10 years isnt exactly practical, thats why I'm sure he had t-yomi as well.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Gaara Kazekage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximo View Post
    Now that I think about it, if Hashirama was given sharingan then he would gain power comparable to Rikudou .. just a random thought.
    He would only get powers that would seem like a weak copy(in comparison, not in general). Like almara said, he would need the Rinnegan to get powers close to the Rikoduo and it would still seem weak in comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by almara View Post
    we dont know if madara's space/time jutsu is related in any way to his MS, so ppl shouldnt assume that it does,
    Yes, we have never seen Madara's MS active while using the Time-Space jutsu, and I think that their not connected. Madara could have relayed on the MS to do it since he have EMS. I don't even think it got something do do with his Sharingan, and that it's a special ability just like the "can't-touch-me-no-jutsu", that just some people can learn or maybe they both are forbidden and forgotten techniques.


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