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  1. #21
    Senior Member Blackriot69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirxxx View Post
    How does everyone feel about this new subset of Logia that Oda has been introducing lately? Well, it's been a long manga, so I can certainly understand if he has to get a little more specific about his elements. Cause before we met Monet, all of us would have thought that her power would be covered by Aokiji's fruit. Same with Ace and Akainu (sort of). Caribou is swamp, while Croc is Sand, which are really just two different kinds of earth. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if we get a "Smog Smog" fruit user. Or "Steam". Both of which makes Smoker cry :-(

    Which makes it all the more strange that Caesar is just "Gas", instead of being "Methane" or "Propane" or something. It's kinda confusing.
    Well I believe it goes back to the idea of there being different "levels" of DF. Considering Logias, some are extremely powerful and are at the top of their presumable tier, ie Akainu's magma trumps Ace's fire, which likely means Aokiji's ice overpowers Monet's snow, and (though I'm not sure how this one would necessarily work out) Caribou's swamp swallows Croc's sand. Caesar is likely above someone who does control a more specific gas, or he may transcend all gaseous Logias, including Smoker's smoke. However, there are cases were it would seem the very lines of advantage and reason blur, such as Magellan illustrating how deadly his poison Paramecia can be (much to the disdain of Caesar) or Marco whose Mythical Zoan gives him Logia-like intangibility. Let's not forget, too, that each DF has a natural DF enemy (Enel falls to Luffy) as well as individual DF weaknesses (BB can't turn intangible but rather negate, Monet is vulnerable to heat and being broken apart). In any case, I'm enjoying the expansion of the DF users in general by Oda as he begins working through this second half of his story.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackriot69 View Post
    Well I believe it goes back to the idea of there being different "levels" of DF. Considering Logias, some are extremely powerful and are at the top of their presumable tier, ie Akainu's magma trumps Ace's fire, which likely means Aokiji's ice overpowers Monet's snow, and (though I'm not sure how this one would necessarily work out) Caribou's swamp swallows Croc's sand. Caesar is likely above someone who does control a more specific gas, or he may transcend all gaseous Logias, including Smoker's smoke. However, there are cases were it would seem the very lines of advantage and reason blur, such as Magellan illustrating how deadly his poison Paramecia can be (much to the disdain of Caesar) or Marco whose Mythical Zoan gives him Logia-like intangibility. Let's not forget, too, that each DF has a natural DF enemy (Enel falls to Luffy) as well as individual DF weaknesses (BB can't turn intangible but rather negate, Monet is vulnerable to heat and being broken apart). In any case, I'm enjoying the expansion of the DF users in general by Oda as he begins working through this second half of his story.
    It's as you say. Ever since Akainu killed Ace, the idea of a Logia hierarchy has developed. In the beginning of the series the Logias were invincible supermen if their weaknesses weren't obvious (aka Cros + Enel), such as Smoker vs Luffy, the only battles Luffy has ever run from because he literally can't fight him. Once Haki was introduced it kind of neutered the Logias, the turning point being when Luffy grabbed Ceaser. The logias still have immense power but they're vulnerable in the New World due to all the Haki users, the best example being Caribou vs Big Mams crewmembers.

    With more Haki users, Logias stop being so invincible, and a Logia hierarchy would fit in just nicely. Kizaru > Enel, Akainu > Ace, Aokiji > Monet, it's all fitting together.

    I'm most interested in the artifical Devil Fruit Vegapunk made. I like that they have dot patterns instead of spirals, and this arc is sneaking in lots of DF information, especially when the Axolotl no mi was created from a normal apple when Slimey died to make Shinokuni. We know how they're created (I wonder which fruit in Marineford became the new Mera Mera when Ace died), and we know Vegapunk can make his own, as well as feed them to objects.

    I really want to see more DF swords. The one that Spandam had was the coolest.

  3. #23
    Senior Member tinatinaww's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aggeroff View Post
    You know, if you look at it in a certain way, Vergo, Monet, and Ceaser sort of represent Solid, Liquid, and Gas.
    yes, it seems like that. but only Monet looks like a bird. why?

  4. #24
    H+ xioaxioa's Avatar
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    Late reading this weeks chapter, I was stuck in a hospital all week.

    Anyways, first thing I would like to address, or simply ask; Why did you guys ever think Monet was smart? She knows as much as you do, possibly a lot less, meaning she would only be as smart as you. Informative and intelligent are not the same thing. I would then like to point out Whiskey Peak to those who say Zoro doesn't like fighting women, when he clearly injures many women. That being said, Zoro has always been a defender of the weak, hints why he is always the first one to dive in when ANY crew member or stranger is in trouble. I bold 'any' because people are delusional enough to think it is always one single person Zoro plays guarding angel for. Now I would kinda like to know why he does that, seeing that his past doesn't go into detail.
    Finally, for the Logia thing; I have a theory that all logias revolve around the 4 states of mater(Solid, Liquid, Gas, Plasma) or combination of the four.

    As for the chapter: Why is Oda not letting us see Zoro get serious!? We've seen both Luffy and Sanji get serious.

    I Love You!
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Blackriot69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xioaxioa View Post
    Late reading this weeks chapter, I was stuck in a hospital all week.

    Anyways, first thing I would like to address, or simply ask; Why did you guys ever think Monet was smart? She knows as much as you do, possibly a lot less, meaning she would only be as smart as you. Informative and intelligent are not the same thing. I would then like to point out Whiskey Peak to those who say Zoro doesn't like fighting women, when he clearly injures many women. That being said, Zoro has always been a defender of the weak, hints why he is always the first one to dive in when ANY crew member or stranger is in trouble. I bold 'any' because people are delusional enough to think it is always one single person Zoro plays guarding angel for. Now I would kinda like to know why he does that, seeing that his past doesn't go into detail.
    Finally, for the Logia thing; I have a theory that all logias revolve around the 4 states of mater(Solid, Liquid, Gas, Plasma) or combination of the four.

    As for the chapter: Why is Oda not letting us see Zoro get serious!? We've seen both Luffy and Sanji get serious.
    This is what many of us have been speculating, whether Zoro has difficulty going all out against female swordsmen. I don't believe any of us deny Zoro has no problem utterly defeating women, nor that he is often throws his life on the line for those of lesser ability; however, when it comes to him fighting women who share his calling as a swordsman, he has shown he prefers to remain on the defensive and, in the fights we've seen with Tashigi, eventually escape without truly defeating his opponent.

  6. #26
    The Lizard Pirate Theia_Loki's Avatar
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    The only real reason Zoro isn't going all out is because there's the nigh lethal poisonous gas outside. If Zoro let loose something lethal like the time-skip equivalent of a 36-Pound Cannon where he is now, wouldn't that risk breaking the walls that keep the shinokuni gas outside and end up pouring in and kill everyone?

    Not a very pleasant situation for Zoro to be in. Either let loose all hell on Monet and risk letting the gas seep in through any destroyed walls from the carnage, or let Monet succeed at killing you.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Zafran's Avatar
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    http://i8.mangareader.net/one-piece/...ce-1697071.jpg

    it might not be clear here, but in the anime he pulled his sword and charged towards her.

  8. #28
    pirate hunter arisart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackriot69 View Post
    This is what many of us have been speculating, whether Zoro has difficulty going all out against female swordsmen. I don't believe any of us deny Zoro has no problem utterly defeating women, nor that he is often throws his life on the line for those of lesser ability; however, when it comes to him fighting women who share his calling as a swordsman, he has shown he prefers to remain on the defensive and, in the fights we've seen with Tashigi, eventually escape without truly defeating his opponent.
    This doesn't really happen actually. He just didn't wanna fight Tashigi coz she reminds him of Kuina (or whatever her name is) and not because she's a woman. And the way I see it, he's holding back against Monet coz Robin, Chopper and Nami are on his way. We could also add the fact that strong good guys don't usually beat the crap out of women who has beauty in a manga. It just doesn't feel right (personally have no problems with it but whatever). It's either a another woman would fight instead or the opponent has to be ugly as fuck and has features of a man rather than a woman just to make it justifiable.

    Character wise, Zoro doesn't mind fighting and beating a woman up but manga rules won't allow that.

    sig made by me

  9. #29
    Senior Member athary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arisart View Post
    This doesn't really happen actually. He just didn't wanna fight Tashigi coz she reminds him of Kuina (or whatever her name is) and not because she's a woman. And the way I see it, he's holding back against Monet coz Robin, Chopper and Nami are on his way. We could also add the fact that strong good guys don't usually beat the crap out of women who has beauty in a manga. It just doesn't feel right (personally have no problems with it but whatever). It's either a another woman would fight instead or the opponent has to be ugly as fuck and has features of a man rather than a woman just to make it justifiable.

    Character wise, Zoro doesn't mind fighting and beating a woman up but manga rules won't allow that.
    Also, i think sanji getting VA and zorro Monet seems weird.
    Assuming that Vergo is way above Monet.
    Like I said zorro is gonna leave tashigi to fight monet, who knows he may stand on the sideline giving
    Tashigi some advice. I think zorro's opponent Is yet to arrive!!!

  10. #30
    Yonkou Hart_lerouxx's Avatar
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    I think Zorro have intuition that there is some goodness inside Monet and still believe that she can change. that's why he is holding back there.
    the way she doesn't harm d children. I mean, mocha did run to her but yet she doesn't do anything. just let her pass by.
    Maybe there is something happened in her past that hasn't revealed yet.

    Zorro is way far stronger in many ways than her, that's absolute.

    sorry for my english

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