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  1. #41
    Senior Member tinatinaww's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOTS View Post
    Good chapter, finally we get back to the battle. It's good to see Naruto holding his own against Madara.
    yep, and Kakashi vs. Obito too!

  2. #42
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rlinfamous View Post
    Kakashi looks taller in this flashback. I'd say Obito waited a couple of years to face Minato. I don't think Zetsuit or Hashirama cells were at work with Obito's growth; perhapsa key clue to Obito's age is the lack of the Zetsuit (which he only wore because his body hadn't adequately grown/strengthened in its use of Hashirama's power).

    Minato isn't even that tall, I don't think it's unlikely that a 15-17 year old would be of equal height.
    Its hard for kishi to make up wiggle room for the time line when there are rock solid facts blocking the way.

    - Kakashi was 13 when he became a jounin and Obito died* at 13 . Rin died at 13 as well.

    - Naruto is 16 years old the Kyuubi attacked happened on the day of his birth remember.



    Using their current age as a marker there is only maybe 1- 1.5 years between Kakashi Gaiden and the Kyuubi attack.


    Fire type

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  3. #43
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Now that Naruto and Madara are fighting again, I wonder if Madara's Rinnegan Jutsu absorbing mode can absorb a full-On Kyuubi Bijuu Bomb attack.

    I had a small problem with when Nagato's Fat Pain absorbed Naruto's Rasen-Shuriken. The Rasen-Shuriken attack is made from Chakra infused wind. Really the Fat Pain Should not have been able to absorb the entire Jutsu since he can't absorb the wind, only the Chakra in the wind. What if Naruto's Jutsu had been earth based and had created a Landslide The moving Mass of Earth should still have an effect even if the Chakra infused into it had been dispersed or absorbed.

    Lastly, I think Naruto should better Bring Gai Sensei and Kakashi inside his Kyuubi Cloak again. Looks to me like Gai Senei is Just about done.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  4. #44
    I'll be waiting, be sure. Yoru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Now that Naruto and Madara are fighting again, I wonder if Madara's Rinnegan Jutsu absorbing mode can absorb a full-On Kyuubi Bijuu Bomb attack.

    I had a small problem with when Nagato's Fat Pain absorbed Naruto's Rasen-Shuriken. The Rasen-Shuriken attack is made from Chakra infused wind. Really the Fat Pain Should not have been able to absorb the entire Jutsu since he can't absorb the wind, only the Chakra in the wind. What if Naruto's Jutsu had been earth based and had created a Landslide The moving Mass of Earth should still have an effect even if the Chakra infused into it had been dispersed or absorbed.

    Lastly, I think Naruto should better Bring Gai Sensei and Kakashi inside his Kyuubi Cloak again. Looks to me like Gai Senei is Just about done.
    You're wrong Paul. What naruto infuses in rasengan isn't wind, but wind elemental chakra, modeled and used so that it resembles wind characteristics. It's still chakra, just modified according to naruto's elemental affinity.

    Just like chidori isn't real lightning, but chakra shaped and modified so that it resemples lightning characteristics.

    Kirin, on the other hand, uses true lightning, driven by basic chakra. I believe pain couldn't absorb that.

  5. #45
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Now that Naruto and Madara are fighting again, I wonder if Madara's Rinnegan Jutsu absorbing mode can absorb a full-On Kyuubi Bijuu Bomb attack.

    I had a small problem with when Nagato's Fat Pain absorbed Naruto's Rasen-Shuriken. The Rasen-Shuriken attack is made from Chakra infused wind. Really the Fat Pain Should not have been able to absorb the entire Jutsu since he can't absorb the wind, only the Chakra in the wind. What if Naruto's Jutsu had been earth based and had created a Landslide The moving Mass of Earth should still have an effect even if the Chakra infused into it had been dispersed or absorbed.

    Lastly, I think Naruto should better Bring Gai Sensei and Kakashi inside his Kyuubi Cloak again. Looks to me like Gai Senei is Just about done.
    I think Madara cannot absorb Earth-style attacks, based on the fact that to prevent him from absorbing the Mizukage/Raikage's Water/Lightning combo, Gaara's sand was used to cover Madara's hands to prevent the absorption. Basically, I think that Wind/Fire/Water/Lightning are fair game, but Earth element is not, mostly due to the physical density. I don't really have evidence for this, but Madara has never been able to absorb sand; he revealed his Rinnegan in the first place to absorb a Rasenshuriken after he was pulled from the Susano'o by sand. Eventually the sand simply fell from his arm after that attack, so perhaps he slowly absorbed the chakra that Gaara used to manipulate the sand, but he still didn't affect the sand itself.

    As for Naruto's Bijuu Bomb, though, I'd agree it'd seem like too much for Madara to absorb it all. I'd hope that, like Samehada, there is a limit to how much chakra the Rinnegan can absorb at once. I'd like to think this is the reason that Madara chose to defend himself with the Fan.

    @POW: I totally understand Kishi has left himself very little wiggle room. I'd just the characters' ages in the databook (which were decided seemingly arbitrarily at times, making it appear as if Kakashi's "Generation" was not originally intended to be of one graduating class) to be the part of the story that suffers / is degraded, rather than the story itself. If it fits better for Obito to have been 2-3 years older instead of 1-1.5, then I'd hope Kishi confirms this and allows the rest of us to accept it.

    However, I still think Obito's growth is *somewhat* acceptable, just given that Kakashi's growth seems equivalent in that time, and after all Obito could have simply been a tall kid. I was taller than my dad by age 15, for whatever that's worth.

  6. #46
    Appearance of Darkness Aga bomBa's Avatar
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    I haven't said anything about the last chapter, all due to the timeline.. seriously. As POW has been stating ( like many other, including me ) --> it's just simple BULLSHIT! Why would you even make a fuckin " DATABOOK " , if you don't follow that damn thing?

    - I mean; by going into this kind of details of each character:

    Birthday: June 9
    Heights: PART 1 = 175,2 cm , PART 2 = 178 cm
    weights: PART 1 = 57,1 KG, PART 2 = 58 KG

    JUST WHY, why going even into details like " 175, 2 " and " 57,1 " and right now.. with the most biggest reveal in Naruto Manga history, our Master Kishimoto.. simple ignores every fckin thing what he has written in the databook, related to the Kakashi Gaiden + Kyuubi attack. There's a HUGE difference between 2,5 - 3 years and 1 - 1,5 years, on top of that: if he was a genius uchiha like Itachi / Sasuke, no problem. I COULD GO with the idea of him being " TOBI ", but after litteraly a month.. it still so hard for me to deal with this kind of stuff, all because you wouldnt except something like this from KISHIMOTO.

    - and that: " well Obito, you were right above my fckin hidden underground palace, you simple SLIPPED through ",.. O' REALLY ?!?!

    From all the PLACES in the shinobi world.. it somehow has to be above Madara's Place, AND EVEN IF ZETZU went underground and took Obito to Madara, why like that?? Trying to say that he didnt had a plan if Obito didn't died near his place? Or HIS PLAN WASNT 100%?
    Madara already gave his eyes to Nagato and simple waited for him to be ressurected. This means, that Madara probably put a trigger in Nagato's mind,.. that he eventually had to ressurect him back AND ZETZU was Madara's co-op for brainwashing Nagato etc. for the time being.

    ANYWAYS, I'm not here to hate this beautiful Manga,.. but I can't wait anymore so that's why this post

    Quote Originally Posted by Rlinfamous View Post
    Also, I believe Naruto's power over Hashirama's Mokuton will play a role; perhaps Madara/Obito will lose control of their stolen Mokuton, rendering them unable to control the Mazou / Rinnegan or severely weakening them. Maybe Edo Madara would return to his old man state.
    First, I wanna ask you something: did Naruto fought Madara in his R- Mode, or did he not have enough power and used Sage- Mode for making all those bunshins / rasengans? ( Need to go back and read that chapter, I forgot )

    - IF HE WASNT in R- Mode, then Madara's Mokuton could backfire.. as we've seen, Yamato's Mokuton reacted to Naruto's R - Mode chakra. WHAT if Naruro can eventually control and use the wood for his own advantage?

    Well, Rin DIED.. but still; Obito has his own plans, I strongly believe that. You see; since the moment that RIN died and he went CRAAAAZY, Obito didn't saw any other solution left for brining her back and simple followed/partly believes in MADARA'S MASTER PIECE. but, following the plan is one part, but the second part are his " words " to Madara; is " Tobi " loyal?

    - Tobi having that scary look on his face when Kabuto showed that coffin
    - Madara's entrance after Tobi's reveal.. their dialogue and what Madara was saying towards Tobi.. it just didn't felt right.

    Madara Uchiha,.. huge hunger for power / strenght, not blood but HATE floating through his vains and probably trying to execute this plan after his defeat @ VOTE, WOULD NEVER EVER make a pupil take care of all the glory.


    Madara will kill Obito, that's a given. But the beauty about this is: I believe that Obito knows this. After he heared that Nagato used that technique for another purpose, he immedialtely starts his plan and key person: Sasuke Uchiha. Obito only wants RIN BACK, that's all ( hate the fact that his reasons, is to bring RIN BACK TO LIFE and end this endless pain/hate/horror/loss.. still, not convinced and found his reasons too weak for such a character that has been builded for literally 5 FCKIN YEARS )

    - What has Tobi done to Itachi's eyes that were given to Sasuke? I believed that he made somekind of failsave,.. when Sasuke would try and use his eyes against him. WHAT IF, Tobi found a way to counter some of Madara's technique and somehow put that trigger inside Itachi's eyes?

    Remember: When Itachi fought Sasuke,.. Black Zetzu was all confused. HOW could this be Itachi, it's nothing like him.. Tobi told Sasuke that Itachi was taken medicines, put this easy fact could also be known in Black Zetzu's case. What I'm trying to say is: Tobi probably doesn't tell BLACK ZETZU EVERYTHING.

    Tobi can teleport faster then Zetzu from place to place, so he sees/hears and is able to do MORE when B-zetzu isn't around, things that could benefit TOBI ALONE in the end, and not in favor for Madara.


    It's pretty obvious that Madara Uchiha is going to be first villain ( person ) that Naruto kills in this entire manga, but a shame for knowing what we know now about Tobi. Honestly; If Madara kills Tobi infront of Kakashi.. beautiful. seeing both of his friends dying infront of his eyes.. it would also FIT RIGHT: Madara killing Tobi, and then the switch to Naruto-Sasuke! Naruto- Kurama, Sasuke-Susanoo and Madara- Juubi with some Susanoo's in the background... EPIC!!!!!!!!!!!
    ... You're Dead 2 Me Now ...

  7. #47
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    ^ You know what, by using Kage Bunshins, he could literally be in any 2 places at the same time. Plus, the Spiral Zetsu could protect a Kage Bunshin, the same way as he was originally protecting Obito, in case something/someone was able to hit him, or if the KB needed to resupply it's chakra (can KB produce chakra ? I know that they can store natural energy, but I'm not sure about producing chakra). This way one Obito could be completing the MEP, while being observed by Black Zetsu and the other would use Spiral's Zetsu's mind link to avoid other Zetsus hided in the ground, while completing his own agenda, well something like that .

    This would explain what happened to Spiral Zetsu, Obito changing his masks and hair quite radically, not to mention it adds many possibilities to manipulate the world, and to alter Madara's original plan without anyone noticing. Perhaps what he is about to do, is to summon the KB Obito with the Spiral Zetsu, this would mean that Obito wasn't even using half of his power up to this point (since he would recover half of his chakra together with obtaining the benefits from being fused together with Spiral Zetsu).


    Anyway, the hand seal that Obito performs at the end of this chapter is really strange.


    <BTW> Since there is no chapter next week, I felt like I should share a nice Naruto Doujinshi with everyone (especially those with drawback syndromes :p): Naruto - Sazanka (Doujinshi) It's slice of life and concentrates on a Student - Teacher relationship between Kakashi and Minato. Pretty good and there are 2 chapters together (I think that the second one should be before the first one).
    Last edited by Zero; 10-28-2012 at 03:38 AM.



  8. #48
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoru View Post
    You're wrong Paul. What naruto infuses in rasengan isn't wind, but wind elemental chakra, modeled and used so that it resembles wind characteristics. It's still chakra, just modified according to naruto's elemental affinity.

    Just like chidori isn't real lightning, but chakra shaped and modified so that it resemples lightning characteristics.

    Kirin, on the other hand, uses true lightning, driven by basic chakra. I believe pain couldn't absorb that.

    Don't know, I have read some sources that say wind is included.

    Anyway, I foun d this video we all might enjoy

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  9. #49
    Senior Member Jean-Marie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aga bomBa View Post
    From all the PLACES in the shinobi world.. it somehow has to be above Madara's Place, AND EVEN IF ZETZU went underground and took Obito to Madara, why like that?? Trying to say that he didnt had a plan if Obito didn't died near his place? Or HIS PLAN WASNT 100%?
    This has been answered already. Madara could have been lying when stating that Obito just sliped through to his cave. And indeed when Obito exists, the place above is the cave entrance and is not the boulders. Many do think that Zetsu went on the many battlefields and decades long to get dying shinobies. Madara didn't necessarily need Obito. Obito wasn't even that special. Maybe there was some requirement about the ability of the chosen shinobies but it doesn't looks like high requirements. Madara was planning to boost him with extra powers anyway. Probably more requierements about the personalia: someone who could be manipulated and who could remain trustful and commited after Madara's death. Obito might not even be the first shinobi that Madara tried to use. I have really no issue with the sudden appearence of Obito in Madara's cave.
    The suicide od old Madara is more mysterious to me as he did it at a time it seemed there were still too much jeopardy in the plan. But even for this: we might learn later from the story that the plan was foolproof.

  10. #50
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean-Marie View Post
    This has been answered already. Madara could have been lying when stating that Obito just sliped through to his cave. And indeed when Obito exists, the place above is the cave entrance and is not the boulders. Many do think that Zetsu went on the many battlefields and decades long to get dying shinobies. Madara didn't necessarily need Obito. Obito wasn't even that special. Maybe there was some requirement about the ability of the chosen shinobies but it doesn't looks like high requirements. Madara was planning to boost him with extra powers anyway. Probably more requierements about the personalia: someone who could be manipulated and who could remain trustful and commited after Madara's death. Obito might not even be the first shinobi that Madara tried to use. I have really no issue with the sudden appearence of Obito in Madara's cave.
    The suicide od old Madara is more mysterious to me as he did it at a time it seemed there were still too much jeopardy in the plan. But even for this: we might learn later from the story that the plan was foolproof.
    Let's re-examine what happend.

    1) Madara steals Hashirama's cells, and infuses himself with the cells, hoping that he'd gain Hashirama's Senju power and with it Evolve his eyes into Rinnegans.

    2) The Plan did not immediately work, but years later after Madara had grown old and near death the Senju Cells Kicked in and Madara's Sharingans finally did evolve into Rinnegans.

    3) Madara Gave his Rinnegans to Nagato, a gifted Uzumaki who had the potential to control the Geddou Mazou. In the hopes the Nagato would one day grow up and use the Rinne Tensei to Bring Madara back to life

    Now we are not told how Madara planned to ensure that Nagatao would bring him back.
    We know that Nagato himself had no Knowledge of Madara.

    However Madara planned to use a Proxy or an Avatar to guide Nagato to bring Madara back.
    Spoiler!

    The Proxy Must be able to control the Geddou Mazou, and must be able to use Mokuton.
    Spoiler!

    The proxy Is PREFERABLY an Uchiha, since only an Uchiha could use the Techniques Madara taught/gave Obito

    So Madara had to find a Proxy who was willing to go along with his plan, was able to use Mokuton/control Geddou Mazou, and who was able skillfully guide and use Nagato to bring Madara back from the dead.

    Obito was the right Candidate because he could be persuaded to give up on Life/The world as it is, and accept Madara's Vision. He lost Half his body and thus had a massive amount of Hashirama's cells in him. As an Uchiha, he could pretend to be madara and he could use the Uchiha Kinjutsu and Inyouton.

    Madara must be extremely Lucky that Obito came along, at the least.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

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