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  1. #11
    Senior Member thebulk's Avatar
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    Not impt why Rin died? Are you kidding me? Rin's death was the main reason which spurred obito into doing what he did which in turn set off a chain of events across the entire world and there you are just dissing it like that? Seriously have what have you been reading?

    @Yoru I like your idea of obito changing his plan from that of madara it would make sense and his statement of saying 'you were supposed to use the rinnen tensei for me' referring to Rin. Which brings up more questions of the extent and limit of that jutsu. Who can or cannot be revived by that jutsu. I mean if he was intending to revive Rin with that, why wasn't jiraiya revived at that point?

  2. #12
    Senior Member Lakritze's Avatar
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    This is getting ridiculous

    I hate to be Johnny Raincloud here, but this is getting rediculous.

    Of course, a genius like Kishi is able to make the storyline work. But as far as I am concerned, he hasn't just been pushing it, he really sent it over the edge.

    1. Tobi is Obito, who miraculously survived the destruction of half of his body, half of his body consists of white Zetsu, who himself is a low-quality clone of Hashirama, who has been harnessed of a few cells Madara stole from Hashirama during their fight. On top of it, part of Obito's character clearly is influenced by Swirl-Zetsu (or whatever you might call him). That's what I call a strange setup.
    2. Obito's character-change was triggered by the death of a class-mate. They were not married, they had no children, they didn't even kiss. If it were so easy, I should also be trying to make the moon catch you all in a dream... I know, I know, Kakashi killed poor Rin, and Obito was right on time to witness exactly that. But that doesn't make it any better.
    3. Madara implanted Hashirama cells, Zetsu is also just a clone, Black Zetsu was virtually created out of nothing (I don't buy the "he is my will"-story), Madara's will is a robot (Black Zetsu always looked like a robot to me), Nagato never had his own Rinnegan-eyes,... Pretty much DNA-manipulation, if you ask me. Well, at least we know that Kabuto's and Orochimaru's DNA-manipulation looks petty compared to what Madara and Obito have been doing. Anyway, the whole you just have to believe in yourself-crap has been rendered pointless by now. All you need is Hashirama-cells. My wish: Don't let Naruto receive Hashirama's DNA to make him stronger. Please don't, Kishi.


    I will play along the storyline and will never again point to this strange storyline-setup. Naruto still is a great Manga, but I really have the impression Kishi invented Tobi before he himself knew, who will be behind the mask. And then he made this up to make the story coherent.

    Just what I really don't get is: Why did White Zetsu improve when he received Yamato's cells? Shouldn't it be the other way around, Yamato improves be getting Zetsu's cells.

    And how could Sasuke destroy the original White Zetsu, if there is more than just one?

    Since some of you are true geniuses when it comes to predictions - I wouldn't have foreseen any of this: Do you see any possibility that Yamato is a Senju/Uzumaki? It would make sense, since he is the only Non-Uchiha compatible to Hashirama's DNA.

    My prediction: Obito's eyes only work when they are together, and they will rejoin during the current fight. Kakashi will tell Tobi why he had no choice but to kill Rin, and Obito will understand, feel sorry for having started World War IV, be redeemed (I can see why Paulbee is pissed because of all the redemptions), and Madara will be the next villain.

  3. #13
    Senior Member kuroihikari's Avatar
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    The Uchiha really do have serious problems dealing with reality, eh? Seems like everyone of them's solution to a crisis is to not deal with the truth.

  4. #14
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    Tons of information this chapter, we got a lot of answers but honestly this chapter leaves me with a multitude of new questions. One thing I find very interesting is that Madara didn't make any mention of Itachi or Sasuke or the Uchiha clan at all. Based on the time line, it seems like it would be impossible for him to have been the one behind the Uchiha massacre and it seems very unlikely now that he was the one who met with Itachi because he would have been very old at that time. Madara seemed to have died when Obito was still quite young likely before Sasuke was even born. That whole situation raises a lot of questions about why Obito did what he did. Nothing has been shown about Obito being told by Madara to massacre the Uchiha clan and Madara made no mention of aquiring another set of Eternal Mangekyou eyes. Does this mean that Obito did all of that for his own reasons, and if so why? Based on what we saw in the last few chapters, Obito's motives seem to be quite simplistic, he only seems interested in creating a world without death and without loss where he can be with Rin again. Madara is the one who had a grudge against the Uchiha and who likely has more complex motives than he is letting on.

    It seems unlikely that Obito would destroy the Uchiha of his own accord and it also seems suspicious that he has stated that obtaining Sasuke has been his most important goal from very early on when Madara was not even living when Sasuke was born. So I can only guess that either Black Zetsu has been continuing to act on Madara's behalf and guide Obito or that Obito has begun to act alone. The later seems unlikely though because Obito seems to have been sharing all of his information with Zetsu. Based on that I assume that black Zetsu has continued to gather information and act on Madara's behalf, collectively they must have learned something that Madara himself did not even know when he was alive, they must have discovered something important that Madara was missing and that is why they made it such a high priority to obtain Sasuke. Of course another possibility is that Madara did reveal more of his plan and that has yet to be shown. Still, I am suspicious about the whole situation, as in the past, when these things don't make sense there is usually some kind of twist behind it.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Yoru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebulk View Post
    Not impt why Rin died? Are you kidding me? Rin's death was the main reason which spurred obito into doing what he did which in turn set off a chain of events across the entire world and there you are just dissing it like that? Seriously have what have you been reading?

    @Yoru I like your idea of obito changing his plan from that of madara it would make sense and his statement of saying 'you were supposed to use the rinnen tensei for me' referring to Rin. Which brings up more questions of the extent and limit of that jutsu. Who can or cannot be revived by that jutsu. I mean if he was intending to revive Rin with that, why wasn't jiraiya revived at that point?
    I think jiraya could have been revived BUT: Nagato was out of chakra, well, nearly out of chakra and he had to concentrate on a whole village of ppl to revive which costed him his life. I assume that the longer a person is dead, the more difficult is to bring him back. Nagato was already a lot fatigued by what he had to do and if he tried to bring Jiraya back too he would have died out of effort before achieving his goal, leaving Jiraya ,in fact, dead.
    I know Rin died long before Jiraya, but there are two options:
    1.If nagato used his power with full chakra and having to focus on one person only, even if long dead, he could have revived Rin.
    2.Nagato was going to be linked to gedo mazou someday (or am i wrong?) so he could have used the biju chakra to bring her back.

    Kinda makes you wonder why he never brought Yahiko back to life....even here i see 2 possibilities:
    -There is a time beyond which you can't revive a person anymore.
    -He intended to do it, but he waited until their plan reached completion.

    Of course I could be wrong, but it might be possible.

    @Lakritze

    I kinda understand you, but I'll tell you what i did tell always. Just wait for the story to develop and maybe Kishi will explain things better leaving you satisfied in the end.

    1. Well, we don't really know to what degree was it all by chance. I believe Madara had a high contribution in the setup of the events. I still don't know how much but I hope we'll learn about it.
    2. To obito Rin wasn't just a classmate. I though by now you'd understand it. He was a bit obsessed with Rin...she was clearly the most important person to him, otherwise he wouldn't have achieved MS. The dearest person to him was killed by his best friend, who was supposed to protect her. This adds quite a big of shock effect and traumatize a youg mind like Obito's. I believe it's all madara's plan, and that Zetsu is influencing Obito's character.
    3. I agree with you about this. Hashirama cells are way overused in this series.

    About Zetsu/Yamato...i don't understand either but i do hope kishi explains it to us after Kabuto comes back from Izanami.

    There might be just one original zetsu, used as a vessel to create the clones, in other words, the first white zetsu that was created by madara.

    Of course Yamato could be related to the uzumaki or senju. I also wonder why doesen't he like using his normal name Tenzo. Does it hold some meaning to the plot?

    About Obito's redemption...I always liked Obito as a character and he was my favourite, so i really hope he will be redeemed but not in a normal way like happened to Nagato. I hope his change of heart will be complicated and unusual. Not by talk-no-justu, but by other means, like Madara's betrayal or such.

    My friend, i know many things are off and make the story a bit.....ridicolous, but wait until Kishi tells us all the story to comment on that

  6. #16
    Senior Member Lakritze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoru View Post
    I think jiraya could have been revived BUT: Nagato was out of chakra, well, nearly out of chakra and he had to concentrate on a whole village of ppl to revive which costed him his life. I assume that the longer a person is dead, the more difficult is to bring him back. Nagato was already a lot fatigued by what he had to do and if he tried to bring Jiraya back too he would have died out of effort before achieving his goal, leaving Jiraya ,in fact, dead.
    I know Rin died long before Jiraya, but there are two options:
    1.If nagato used his power with full chakra and having to focus on one person only, even if long dead, he could have revived Rin.
    2.Nagato was going to be linked to gedo mazou someday (or am i wrong?) so he could have used the biju chakra to bring her back.

    Kinda makes you wonder why he never brought Yahiko back to life....even here i see 2 possibilities:
    -There is a time beyond which you can't revive a person anymore.
    -He intended to do it, but he waited until their plan reached completion.

    Of course I could be wrong, but it might be possible.

    @Lakritze

    I kinda understand you, but I'll tell you what i did tell always. Just wait for the story to develop and maybe Kishi will explain things better leaving you satisfied in the end.

    1. Well, we don't really know to what degree was it all by chance. I believe Madara had a high contribution in the setup of the events. I still don't know how much but I hope we'll learn about it.
    2. To obito Rin wasn't just a classmate. I though by now you'd understand it. He was a bit obsessed with Rin...she was clearly the most important person to him, otherwise he wouldn't have achieved MS. The dearest person to him was killed by his best friend, who was supposed to protect her. This adds quite a big of shock effect and traumatize a youg mind like Obito's. I believe it's all madara's plan, and that Zetsu is influencing Obito's character.
    3. I agree with you about this. Hashirama cells are way overused in this series.

    About Zetsu/Yamato...i don't understand either but i do hope kishi explains it to us after Kabuto comes back from Izanami.

    There might be just one original zetsu, used as a vessel to create the clones, in other words, the first white zetsu that was created by madara.

    Of course Yamato could be related to the uzumaki or senju. I also wonder why doesen't he like using his normal name Tenzo. Does it hold some meaning to the plot?

    About Obito's redemption...I always liked Obito as a character and he was my favourite, so i really hope he will be redeemed but not in a normal way like happened to Nagato. I hope his change of heart will be complicated and unusual. Not by talk-no-justu, but by other means, like Madara's betrayal or such.

    My friend, i know many things are off and make the story a bit.....ridicolous, but wait until Kishi tells us all the story to comment on that
    Thanks man! I am not alone with all my doubts!

  7. #17
    Senior Member Execution's Avatar
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    @artifice

    This
    Spoiler!

    I'ts also the reason why Obito didn't get revenge on Kakashi when he saw him kill Rin in the first place it's because he doesn't care about anyone living in the current reality because they are all supposed to be in the new world anyway. After all why would he care if he killed the entirety of the Uchiha clan if they are going to be alive later regardless. He simply doesn't care about life anymore. Whether someone lives or dies doesn't matter if everything currently "Alive or Dead" is going to be absorbed by the Infinite Tsukiyomi. As for why, Itachi had caught him taking a look at the Uchiha tablet so he had to appease him by helping him kill the Uchiha so that he wouldn't tell the village what he was up to. Which must have worked considering that no one actually believed Madara could be alive, not even the Hokage.

    If you still don't think Obito has it in him to massacre his own clan remember that he did strap a bomb to a baby which was his own Sensei's son. Relation means nothing to him anymore he is operating on pure indifference.
    Last edited by Execution; 10-17-2012 at 09:41 AM.

  8. #18
    Que gatito mas leeendo!!! hikonami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebulk View Post
    Not impt why Rin died? Are you kidding me? Rin's death was the main reason which spurred obito into doing what he did which in turn set off a chain of events across the entire world and there you are just dissing it like that? Seriously have what have you been reading?

    @Yoru I like your idea of obito changing his plan from that of madara it would make sense and his statement of saying 'you were supposed to use the rinnen tensei for me' referring to Rin. Which brings up more questions of the extent and limit of that jutsu. Who can or cannot be revived by that jutsu. I mean if he was intending to revive Rin with that, why wasn't jiraiya revived at that point?
    i believe that rinnen tensei brings a person with its memories, rin could do what obito wanted but not feel and think as obito wants, we still don't know why kakashi killed her. if it had been cold blood murder he would have been judged at the village and treated as a criminal. instead he became konoha's great copy ninja. i think to really understand the obitokakashi relationship why rin died must be answered. i think as far as this fight goes, that's the main issue. will kakashi be able to face this messed up obito and not be emotionally afected? i really doubt it....i just hope kishi doesn't kill kakashi....
    Miau, Miau, Miau.....prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!

  9. #19
    Senior Member Execution's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hikonami View Post
    i believe that rinnen tensei brings a person with its memories, rin could do what obito wanted but not feel and think as obito wants, we still don't know why kakashi killed her. if it had been cold blood murder he would have been judged at the village and treated as a criminal. instead he became konoha's great copy ninja. i think to really understand the obitokakashi relationship why rin died must be answered. i think as far as this fight goes, that's the main issue. will kakashi be able to face this messed up obito and not be emotionally afected? i really doubt it....i just hope kishi doesn't kill kakashi....
    But Rinne Tensei was already used by Nagato to bring back almost the entire village of Konoha. If it could only bring you back as a emotionless shell with memories then that means that Kakashi and the rest of Konoha would be such as well.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Kenny Bones's Avatar
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    Okay, I apologize, perhaps we need to know why Kakashi killed Rin. But nonetheless, it happened and that's what made Obito turn. I still find Madara and his plan more interesting really.

    Good point about Obito wanting rinne tensei for Rin. That could've been what he wanted it for. Because it seems Obito didn't even want or need Madara to come back. He could set the infinite tsukyomi in motion himself. Also, no wonder he found that killing the entire Uchiha clan problemless. If they're going to be "revived" inside the tsukyomi anyway. It doesn't matter whether

    Now, what's going on in present time? What will Obito do? What will Madara do?

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