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  1. #71
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    Oct 2011
    So the one who fight to Minato is Obito??? is really obito ?? O.O i shocked!

  2. #72
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    Aug 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by POW View Post
    - My feeling is that this genjutsu world will literally transfer peoples minds to this perfect world and their bodies will slowly die off. Thus the end of the world that others have called it. I guess that even if people die their minds or part of their consciousnesses will exists in this genjutsu world. The real Rin wont be there but a fake Genjutsu version will be.

    Madara's belief in power is that peace can only be achieved by those who have power. Weak people can do nothing and are at the mercy of cruel reality.

    Its difficult to say what the deal is with the genjutsu world is, frankly, Madara's ambitions don't seem to make any sense considering his attitude. Madara seems to be someone who loves war, loves battle and loves being considered great. A world of love, without losers and without conflict doesn't seem to fit his personality at all. I can see why Madara would want to resurrect the Juubi and claim its power but why he would want to make a dream world is beyond me. I have to assume that Madara still hasn't revealed the fullness of his plan. I think his goals must be more complex than he's letting on.

    Quote Originally Posted by POW View Post
    - The only thing that makes sense regarding Obito finding his way to Madara is that Zetsu brought him there. As the other chapters revealed there are many Zetsu's hidden underground gathering information. They must have informed Madara about Obito and had him brought there under orders.
    I agree, that seems like the most likely explanation. It is no accident that Madara found Obito, Madara had been putting his plans in place for a long time. Madara was keeping himself alive so that he could find a person naive enough, yet with enough genetic potential to carry out his will. Nagato and Obito both fit that mold. Madara also quite likely manipulated the tragedies in their lives and may have used genjutsu to insure that they would act in accordance with his will. Remember, Uchiha Shisui was able to control people's minds without them having any awareness of it, it is possible that Madara was capable of something similar.

    Quote Originally Posted by POW View Post
    - what doesnt make sense is that Madara seemed to be making these giant leaps of faith on people he knows nothing about?

    A)- He gives his eyes to Nagato who just a child when its possible he could have been killed!!

    * okay so maybe he had Zetsu keep tabs on him at all times so in case there was danger that could take his eyes away he could step in.

    B)- He trusts everything to Obito as though he actually believes Obito to be so capable he can achieve everything while only knowing him for like 1 year.

    * what was Madara going to do if Obito never came around? Did he have some other Uchiha in mind for his plans?
    I don't think Madara left as much up to chance as it may seem as I mentioned above, Shisui was able to use genjutsu to program a person's subconsious, Madara may have had similar abilities. We have to remember that Madara didn't leave Obito alone, that is what black Zetsu was there for.Quite likely black Zetsu was there to guide Obitos hand and make sure things went according to plan. Another thing we have to remember is that Madara has countless years of experience and is not only a genius but a master of the sharingan. Look at how Itachi was able to manipulate and read the actions of both his enemies and allies, Madara is quite likely very skilled at reading people and prediciting how they will act. While it may seem like he was taking an incredible risk, it may be that his foresight and fail safes made the risks far less than they appear to have been.

    Quote Originally Posted by Execution View Post
    I don't remember where it was stated that Obito went through great lengths to see the Uchiha destroyed only that he agreed to help Itachi kill them.
    Obito told Sasuke that Itachi agreed to help him destroy the Uchiha clan in exchange for staying away from Konoha. Obito wouldn't have needed to work with Itachi at all if he had just kept his distance, he must have had a motive for getting involved or he could have easily just left the clan alone and the village would have ended up going to war with them anyway. Obito clearly had a motive, or there was not reason for him to get involved at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Execution View Post
    If anyone went to great lengths to kill the Uchiha it would have to be Danzou and we know that they weren't working together. Like you said the Uchiha would have started a war regardless and many would have likely died which is exactly why Obito agreed to kill them. It was mentioned in the Manga that even if the Uchiha succeeded and took over then other countries would attack, and if they all died what would be the first thing to happen to them? They would lose their eyes. It would simply turn into a Sharingan race for either Konoha or the other countries. Meaning that Obito would lose an opportunity to claim them himself if he just stood idly by.

    Why let the Uchiha kill themselves senselessly and have Sharingan's unnecessarily floating around in circulation when you can kill them yourself and take all of their Sharingan to aid your plan? Why give Konoha or the other countries you will eventually war with your own weapon to use against you? I don't think it should be so complicated he probably simply killed them to keep too many Sharingan from falling into Danzou's or someone else's hands.
    The question is, why would Obito care either way? From what we have seen Obito's only interest is the Moon's Eye plan, based on what Madara said, the Uchiha Clan, Sasuke and Itachi, don't play any part in that plan. Yet Obito made a point of involving himself with both Itachi and Sasuke. War would have likely helped Obito's plans by creating chaos. Obito clearly had a reason for getting involved in the Uchiha massacre and he clearly had a reason for persuing Sasuke. It is also odd that Obito knew that Itachi was dieing of an illness when even Black Zetsu (Madara's representative) didn't seem to know anything about it. Obito has always been extremely interested in Sasuke, so much so that he has stated that obtaining Sasuke was his most important goal. Yet sofar we have seen no reason for why and Madara was not even alive when Sasuke was born so it seem impossible that Obito persued Sasuke on Madara's orders.

    We still don't know what truly happened with Obito and Danzo during the Massacre, so it is hard to say what their relationship was. Hopefully we will get a full flashback that explains what really happened between Obito, Itachi, and Danzo, because a lot of what happened during the massacre still doesn't seem to add up.

  3. #73
    Senior Member tinatinaww's Avatar
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    Oct 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Bones View Post
    Okay, I apologize, perhaps we need to know why Kakashi killed Rin. But nonetheless, it happened and that's what made Obito turn. I still find Madara and his plan more interesting really.
    yes, I really want to know this! this chapter tells nothing about this! I also wonder why Obito lets Kakashi alive...

  4. #74
    Que gatito mas leeendo!!! hikonami's Avatar
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    Mar 2008
    central america
    i think obito wanted sasuke to give those eyes to madara when he was revived (old version madara not current) or perhaps in order to revive the juubi a pair of strong eyes must be sacrificed. and that's why they wanted sasuke.
    i wonder if kakashi and obito are going to fight soon, because kakashi is quite weak at the moment. it would be nicer if they fought when kakashi is fully recovered
    Miau, Miau, Miau.....prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!

  5. #75

    Uzumaki lineage

    I might be wrong.. but for some reason Uzumaki clan was swept because i think someone knows Uzumaki are capable of using Rinnegan and the 10tails bijuu..

    which means Uzumaki = Senju + Uchiha because controlling the Gedo Mazou requires Senju + Uchiha bloodline..

    Quote Originally Posted by Rlinfamous View Post
    So many things confirmed. Wow.

    1. Black Zetsu = Madara's Will implanted in Zetsu.

    2. Nagato was literally given Madara's eyes.

    3. Gedo Mazou is the Juubi's Shell, not merely a "Container."

    4. Madara's age upon awakening the Rinnegan.

    5. Obito's motive for the Moon's Eye Plan was Rin's death / Madara's brainwashing.

    6. Senju = Uzumaki for all intents and purposes.

    7. Senju/Uzumaki + Uchiha = Rinnegan.

    8. Madara taught Obito forbidden Uchiha / Rikudou techniques.

    Basically a bigger list of confirmations than we've ever gotten in a single chapter. Kishi really rushed things after so many slow flashbacks... basically everything we ever guessed about Madara, Obito, Nagato, the Rinnegan, Senju/Uchiha/Uzumaki lineage, the Juubi, Zetsu... all confirmed in one chapter. Holy crap.

    It's interesting to see exactly how Mugen Tsukuyomi works; Madara appears to be "dragging" people into his Genjutsu world in the same way Obito drags people into his Kamui dimension (or close enough). It seems confirmed that it's not purely illusion, and people can actually live in it.

    I'm still guessing Madara transplanted his Rinnegan using the same "Creation of All Things" (Rikudou Izanagi) technique he used to implant "Black Zetsu" into White Zetsu... if he can transfer mental energies and physically alter a living body on a whim, he can probably transfer his eyes.

    We STILL don't know what happens with Spiral Zetsu... he wasn't even in this chapter. I guess we probably have at least one more chapter of flashbacks, although things really moved along fast. I want to see what happens to allow Obito to move around with just a mask rather than a silly ZetSuit.

    We also still don't know anything about why the Hidden Mist wanted Rin, why Kakashi had to kill Rin, or why Madara chose Obito. We don't know about Madara's influence with the Hidden Mist (if any) or those "Experimental Bodies" that Zetsu (ironically) informed Obito about. Basically, all of the MANY questions raised in the last couple of chapters were completely ignored, while quite a list of things we've basically been taking for granted or believed for over a year were confirmed. Oh well, I'll take it. Glad to get all that out of the way.

  6. #76
    I might be wrong.. but for some reason Uzumaki clan was swept because i think someone knows Uzumaki are capable of using Rinnegan and the 10tails bijuu..

    which means Uzumaki = Senju + Uchiha because controlling the Gedo Mazou requires Senju + Uchiha bloodline..

  7. #77
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Aug 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by hikonami View Post
    i think obito wanted sasuke to give those eyes to madara when he was revived (old version madara not current) or perhaps in order to revive the juubi a pair of strong eyes must be sacrificed. and that's why they wanted sasuke.
    i wonder if kakashi and obito are going to fight soon, because kakashi is quite weak at the moment. it would be nicer if they fought when kakashi is fully recovered
    No sh*t, I'm already preparing myself for the revelation that Obito is Sasuke's real father (with his MS jutsu, it would have been too easy to impregnate a woman without her noticing ), this would mean that Itachi and Sasuke are only brothers through their mother, plus Itachi's father seemed to be doubtful about Sasuke being his son... nah .

    Anyway, I think that Sasuke was a back up plan, in case something happened to Madara's Rinnegan inside Nagato. If it was destroyed or if they would be unable to get it back, Obito would need to create another pair of Rinnegan to complete the MEP.

  8. #78
    Senior Member Jean-Marie's Avatar
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    Aug 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by hikonami View Post
    i have a doubt. in this chapter when obito tries yo hold rin for the first time, his hand goes through her, but later he is able to use both hands to hold her. what does it mean?
    Simple. Obito was longing for a long time to put his fingers inside Rin's body. So he does. Then he has a second thought. Like : "have respect for the deads". So he stops, behaves, and touch her externally only. She'll be a dream soon. So soon enough in the dream he will be able to do whatever he wants inside her body.

  9. #79
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Sep 2011
    Obito fighting a fresh kakashi huh? Obito supposedly learned ultimate techniques from madara. The question then is what sealing techniques does he know besides the "evil suppression" he used on sasuke's" cursed seal in the chuunin exam. Will such techniques be enough to counter the uchiha kinjutsu or Yin and Yang techniques? I doubt obito will be kakashi's opponent but then again, learning tobi is obito puts kakashi through the exact same emotional hurdles the other shinobi experienced when forced to fight their comrades revived by edo tensei, hmmm.

    Given that the so6p did crazy specific things to the world and consciously spread about the great powers and energy to not only to create a balance but to also ensure the relationship such as his two son's had and likewise naruto and sasuke will always take place, improve over time, and eventually stabilize. The sage clearly had a "divine" plan when he turned the world into a puzzle and left certain power to be discovered by the worthy hearts and minds. His plan is bigger than madara's by a huge degree. Sage wasn't simply the combined mentality of his two sons but he recognized a,place for both in the world. Naruto is soon to complete the sage's plan. I just wonder what the conditions were in the time of the sage and what he was feeling.

    That being said, naruto feels and shows that it's story resembles the movie, "versus" wayyy more than the matrix. Matrix barely fits at all anymore.
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  10. #80
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    Sep 2012

    Aren't theese the Akatsuki clouds

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