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  1. #51
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    • Obito isn't following Madara's plan currently.
    • Madara was already dead while Tobi was building Akatsuki.
    • We learned about Akatsuki in chapter 247. (that's more than half the story to date)
    • Obito set the 9-tails on Konoha years before chapter 1.
    • It is because of Obito that Naruto was made a jinchuuriki.
    • Naruto was alienated from the town and had difficulty becoming a ninja because he had the fox in him.
    • Naruto is Naruto because of the above line and because his parents died in the 9-tails' attack.
    • The whole Naruto story is driven by Obito.


    Quote Originally Posted by Execution View Post
    @Approx01

    Wait, but since the idea of the Moons eye plan started with Madara and he is long past grown up what does that make him?
    Madara is a supporting character. I would say he is a shell of his former self

  2. #52
    Senior Member Execution's Avatar
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    My thoughts on the feasibility of the Moon's eye plan. While I dislike comparing plots of other stories (mainly because people begin to argue that something is now cliche because another story has done something similar) is that it would essentially be the Matrix. We don't really know the limit of Rinne Tensei or the Jyuubi's chakra, and with the whole of the Jyuubi's chakra being possessed by the Geddou Mazou it may actually be possible to revive everyone cast Tsukiyomi on the moon then connect the collective bodies of everyone on the planet to the Mazou so that they can survive on the Jyuubi's chakra like how madara survived for nearly a century on the Mazou alone (May or may not have had at least 1 Bijuu in it). Seeing as how the tailed beasts still exist it may truly grant everyone immortality while denying their freedom.

  3. #53
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    What this manga needs to keep its plot credible is

    1) a twist in obito's direction, giving him autonomy and opposition to madara's ideas and leftover devices. It's disappointing to have a character so full of potential, appear so far pathetic, and fuel all his critical actions on immaturity within calamity that no longer suits the character he became on top of a narrative disconnect.

    2) at least one more powerful person or relic of personality intact to counter the instances of madara's knowledge and use of ultimate knowledge and power. Please don't tell me madara is the only superpower out there depositing his will and ambition so potent as to shape the world itself long past his death. With such an artificially tacked on reliance of the universal theme of "cycles", there must be something that precedes madara when it comes to willpower transcending time and life.

    3) shore up and reconcile loose ends like kabuto and any reason he has for being relevant.

    4) cease the overuse of cliffhangers with critical story elements or important points of character development or displays. Good grief, we still don't know the truth behind rin's death and waiting for the final missing piece to arrive through possibly more flashbacks from kakashi's point of view misses the greatest opportunity for maximum effectiveness, lessens the importance of obito's flashbacks and deprives him a degree of justification within his motives. Another crime is the kakashi rampage against the edo mist swordsmen. Seriously, kishi deserves a fine for that! He had a chance to redeem himself with young kakashi and mist ninjas but turned it into obito's rampage that wasn't necessary to establish anything in the way of what we needed to fill in tobi's origin or gaps. Kakashi was the character we know and live, understand him and crave at least some but not his mystique to be "demistified" in fan service. Kakashi gaiden did so much yet not giving us our 1000 copied techniques kakashi rampage was a jarring halt to the cool sh*t we had longed to see. Disappointment at its worst! Stop that kishimoto!

    5) keep naruto and sasuke clean of genetic manipulation, especially any variety of tampering without their consent.

    6) fanservice moments to flesh out nidaime. (Tacked this on for good measure, not necessary to maintain credibility but it couldn't hurt)
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  4. #54

    No mystery

    Rin's death was no mystery..

    It was war. They were surrounded. No way out. They did not want to get captured.

    Rin,"I'd rather die by your hand, Kakkashi".

    Kakkashi,"Ok, if you are sure. I'll be right behind you. You won't be alone".

    An exhausted Kakkashi kills Rin with his final Chidori, unknowingly fulfills and unlocks the mangekyo. (which he didn't know that it would)

    Obito happens to arrive just in time to witness the kill. Hence along with Kakkashi who just killed a close friend, while carrying one of his eyes. Both eyes transformed into the mangekyo. Kakkashi passes out from exhaustion. Obito freaked out and with his new mangekyo and zetsu body armor kills everybody.

    It was suicide over capture/torture/forced to betray Konoha, choose your reasons.
    Last edited by true86no; 10-18-2012 at 08:31 AM. Reason: typo + addition

  5. #55
    Senior Member janfeae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by true86no View Post
    Rin's death was no mystery..

    It was war. They were surrounded. They did not want to get captured.

    Rin,"I'd rather die by your hand, Kakkashi".

    Kakkashi,"Ok, if you are sure. I'll be right behind you. You won't be alone".

    It was suicide over capture/torture/forced to betray Konoha, choose your reasons.

    Rin looked as though she was caught off guard; like she was in awe from what Kakashi did. She didn't look or react like she was expecting it. However, you may be right. It may turn out to be the complete opposite

    On an unrelated note, welcome to the forum.

  6. #56
    Mind f*cked beyond repair Stev3child's Avatar
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    Naruto talk-no-jutsu'd Nagato, who was directly influenced by Madara's materialized willpower. Has Madara already been defeated?
    QUOTE(s) OF THE MOMENT

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Death View Post
    I swear if your theories were any dumber I would be retarded...

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by janfeae View Post
    Rin looked as though she was caught off guard; like she was in awe from what Kakashi did. She didn't look or react like she was expecting it. However, you may be right. It may turn out to be the complete opposite

    On an unrelated note, welcome to the forum.
    Thanks.

    As for the awe/surprise or the widening of the eyes, having an arm pierce through your chest does that, I'm thinking.

    The only flaw to my theory revolves around what one of the mist said,"Shit, he took her out". Another said,"Just when we finally managed to get our hands on it". If his "we" includes Rin, then the assumption would be Rin was ultimately a double agent (highly unlikely, they grew up together...) and she managed to steal some information (it would have to be information as only the dead can't talk). Kakkashi had to kill her to prevent the leak. However as Rin was not in fighting stance when Kakkashi pierced her, this seems unlikely as well. Unless, Rin was trying to trick/seduce/whatever Kakkashi which he did not buy. Also I doubt traitors/double agents would be buried back in konoha.

    However a few pages after that, the mist talked about retrieving the body and they don't want the enemy getting their hands on Rin's corpse. This implies that Rin's body was special somehow and that the body was what they were after. Special bodies are almost always kekkai related we have learnt.
    Last edited by true86no; 10-18-2012 at 09:33 AM.

  8. #58
    Senior Member janfeae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by true86no View Post
    Thanks.

    As for the awe/surprise or the widening of the eyes, having an arm pierce through your chest does that, I'm thinking.

    The only flaw to my theory revolves around what one of the mist said,"Shit, he took her out". Another said,"Just when we finally managed to get our hands on it". If his "we" includes Rin, then the assumption would be Rin was ultimately a double agent (highly unlikely, they grew up together...) and she managed to steal some information (it would have to be information as only the dead can't talk). Kakkashi had to kill her to prevent the leak. However as Rin was not in fighting stance when Kakkashi pierced her, this seems unlikely as well. Unless, Rin was trying to trick/seduce/whatever Kakkashi which he did not buy. Also I doubt traitors/double agents would be buried back in konoha.

    However a few pages after that, the mist talked about retrieving the body and they don't want the enemy getting their hands on Rin's corpse. This implies that Rin's body was special somehow and that the body was what they were after. Special bodies are almost always kekkai related we have learnt.
    I'm certainly not saying he didn't do it on purpose; nor am I saying Rin wasn't special. Those chapters heavily implied that. I am 70% on board with the theory that Kakashi did it intentionally. With the other 30 on some kind of trick or accident. I was only slightly disagreeing with Rin asking him to kill her based on expressions only. It seemed like something unexpected to me when Obito saw a glimpse of her face on his way to their location.

    I just feel as though she would have looked differently if it were a plan the two concocted. It was also in the way she said his name. But that could have simply been from her dying, and not shock for what he did.

  9. #59
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Rin's death is a mystery because we only see A dozen or so enemy ANBU targeting a nobody Konoha Medical Ninja. That makes no sense on face value.

    @Knifeeater,

    I'd add that Kishi should top overusing the Nobody is truly evil/Talk-no-Jutsu Cures ALL thing.

    Even now, we run the risk of Big Bad Madara, who has single handedly screwed up the Naruto Universe, being motivated by a desire to save the world and bring back all our dead loved ones. In other words Even Madara isn't all that bad?

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  10. #60
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    To awaken Rinnegan you have to posses: Senju and Uchiha powers + Sharingan?/MS?/EMS? + finally, death... or at least a near death experience with those above .

    It looks like a true Rinnegan user, is a person already between Life & Death. It's quite possible that it was similar for So6p, as Rinnegan allows you to control the cycle of Life, Death and Rebirth. To simply put, you cannot awaken the Rinnegan while being alive, or so it seems . Still you can be given it by someone else .

    Then it might mean that Rinnegan actually draws it's power from both worlds, the Pure and the Impure one. One filled with Life and the other filled with Spirits (thus the need of Senju and Uchiha powers as a medium to draw out those powers ?).


    Looks like Obito was influenced by Madara's Will as well, since when he went rampage, those black rods have appeared and sticked out of Obito's body. This means that the GM is filled with Madara's Will as well.


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