View Poll Results: Rate this Chapter

Voters
25. You may not vote on this poll
  • Excellent

    8 32.00%
  • Good

    11 44.00%
  • Average

    4 16.00%
  • Bad

    0 0%
  • Horrible

    2 8.00%
Page 11 of 13 FirstFirst ... 9 10 11 12 13 LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 123
  1. #101
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    532
    Quote Originally Posted by Bakun View Post
    I believe he actually did eventually notice his vision getting worse, hence why he kept his left eye covered. Not to mention that time he encountered "Itachi" when trying to retrive Gaara from Akatsuki, and asking him "how bad his eye sight is."
    Yet when we see through his point of view during his attempt to kamui the gedou mazou his vision in mangekyo appears normal and without deterioration. Compare to itachi's vision when fighting sasuke.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  2. #102
    Senior Member Temperjoke's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,282
    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    Can you guys help me reach a clear answer? Obito using mokuton is the result of half his body being "half artificial hashirama body". That part if his body is NOT zetsu, what defines zetsu is in part the person/personality. What is attached to obito is merely prosthetic and enhancement but deriving from the same source as zetsu, compatible with zetsu.

    The zetsu clone which encased obito is not responsible for the mokuton, especially since he.observed and exclaimed obito's level of mokuton being exclusive and probably unrelated to his presence acting as his armor.

    I'm not sure what sort of true power ups spiral zetsu gives obito in the way of senju or uchiha tech outside of augmenting physical attack and defense. The mokuton more sensibly would result from his half hashirama body as that is where molded chakra would originate, not spiral zetsu doing tech for him.

    So, what i observe is

    Obito's hashirama body is not a zetsu, he is nit half zetsu

    Obito's mokuton ability is granted him by his half hashirama body

    Spiral zetsu probably has little to no influence or contribution to obito's mokuton. (Observe sasuke's slaying of zetsu's, mokuton appeared extremely limited)

    -

    Zetsu and obito's body merely share a cellular basis and compatibility.

    Right or wrong?
    Obito's body is Obito's body at this point. I think the base of it was a growth from the Hashirama plant, just like Zetsu was. Now, I believe that the spiral-faced one is an actual clone that was developed differently, given the personality differences it exhibits. It's got the same psychic connection to the original Zetsu that the other clones had. In fairness, all the other clones that we've seen weren't individually given enough time to actively show any personality traits they might of possessed. So I'd have to put that down as "not enough information".

  3. #103
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    532
    Also, zetsu appears to grow from the mazou. If true then it might mean zetsu contains some of madara's energies as well, as it us believed at this point he is contributing them along with what he gained from hashirama. Obito's would theoretically not need a zetsu body as he already naturally has the uchiha ingredients found in madara, to what degree remains to be seen. Back to zetsu, though i believe zetsu as an entity must be defined as person, regardless if cloned zero times, 100,000 times, black or white, zetsu is person. Obito's body contains no person other than obito (at the point of flashback, i know some think he absorbs zetsu). His half body clearly is hashirama matter devoid of zetsu.

    I can settle peacefully with "not enough info" but then claims of obito's mokuton can't be confidently attributed to spiral zetsu or the like.

    If obito's hashirama body allows him to absorb zetsu ( cellular compatibility, zetsu can move freely through "wood" etc.) Then what are the chances obito can absorb any number of zetsus? Each absorption gaining him their knowledge, memory, experience in the way of shadow clone dispersal. Not only that, his hashirama components would power up significantly as he receives the chakra of each zetsu!

    Zetsu has shown limited mokuton, obito has shown incredible mokuton.

    Zetsu imitates chakra signatures, obito has never been confirmed to have this ability. He is not half zetsu, he is half hashirama.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  4. #104
    Senior Member Jean-Marie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    203
    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    Can you guys help me reach a clear answer? Obito using mokuton is the result of half his body being "half artificial hashirama body". That part if his body is NOT zetsu, what defines zetsu is in part the person/personality. What is attached to obito is merely prosthetic and enhancement but deriving from the same source as zetsu, compatible with zetsu.

    The zetsu clone which encased obito is not responsible for the mokuton, especially since he.observed and exclaimed obito's level of mokuton being exclusive and probably unrelated to his presence acting as his armor.

    I'm not sure what sort of true power ups spiral zetsu gives obito in the way of senju or uchiha tech outside of augmenting physical attack and defense. The mokuton more sensibly would result from his half hashirama body as that is where molded chakra would originate, not spiral zetsu doing tech for him.

    So, what i observe is

    Obito's hashirama body is not a zetsu, he is nit half zetsu

    Obito's mokuton ability is granted him by his half hashirama body

    Spiral zetsu probably has little to no influence or contribution to obito's mokuton. (Observe sasuke's slaying of zetsu's, mokuton appeared extremely limited)

    -

    Zetsu and obito's body merely share a cellular basis and compatibility.

    Right or wrong?
    I see it that way:
    The mazou behind old madara, the white zetzus, and the prothesis on Obito are all the same material. But...
    The zetzus were given something extra, that the mazou and the prosthesis don't have: a consciousness.
    There are at least 2 white zetzus with a consciousness: the two talking to each other about poo.
    The spirale zetsu might be dead. Not talking anymore to the actual Tobi.
    The second zetsu might be the one who is alive nowdays = the one having merged with black zetsu = the one with the 100.000 clones.
    The origine of the consciousness of the 2 white zetsu is still to be determined. The origine of black zetsu too.

    As for the power to use mokuton:
    The material is not enough. You need a mind/chakra/skill in addition to the material, in order to use/control it.
    White zetsu and Danzo don't have it.
    Harashimara, actual edo madara with implant, Obito with implant, Yamato do have it.
    On a side note, Naruto seems to have the mind/chakra/skill for it (ref: trees growing next to him), but he miss the cells/implant.

    So how Obito with implant is using the mokuton?
    He's obviously using his own mind/chakra/skill in combination with the Harashimara cells. He has those cells both in the prosthesis and in the spiral zetsu around him. Theorethically I would say he could use either of the two. Yet considering that the actual Tobi is not using mokuton anymore, still has the prosthesis, and doesn't seems to have the spiral zetsu anymore to talk to, it would seem that Obito was using the cells from the spiral zetsu and not from the prosthesis to make the mokuton.

  5. #105
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    532
    Quote Originally Posted by Jean-Marie View Post
    I see it that way:
    The mazou behind old madara, the white zetzus, and the prothesis on Obito are all the same material. But...
    The zetzus were given something extra, that the mazou and the prosthesis don't have: a consciousness.
    There are at least 2 white zetzus with a consciousness: the two talking to each other about poo.
    The spirale zetsu might be dead. Not talking anymore to the actual Tobi.
    The second zetsu might be the one who is alive nowdays = the one having merged with black zetsu = the one with the 100.000 clones.
    The origine of the consciousness of the 2 white zetsu is still to be determined. The origine of black zetsu too.

    As for the power to use mokuton:
    The material is not enough. You need a mind/chakra/skill in addition to the material, in order to use/control it.
    White zetsu and Danzo don't have it.
    Harashimara, actual edo madara with implant, Obito with implant, Yamato do have it.
    On a side note, Naruto seems to have the mind/chakra/skill for it (ref: trees growing next to him), but he miss the cells/implant.

    So how Obito with implant is using the mokuton?
    He's obviously using his own mind/chakra/skill in combination with the Harashimara cells. He has those cells both in the prosthesis and in the spiral zetsu around him. Theorethically I would say he could use either of the two. Yet considering that the actual Tobi is not using mokuton anymore, still has the prosthesis, and doesn't seems to have the spiral zetsu anymore to talk to, it would seem that Obito was using the cells from the spiral zetsu and not from the prosthesis to make the mokuton.
    Right, i am on the same page as you regarding almost everything. Something else, though, is obito/tobi did not use any jutsu other than his space time, sharingan genjutsu, and izanagi from his secret spare. Now that he is fighting kakashi,gai, bee, and naruto he suddenly starts using famed uchiha fire techniques in tandem and even simultaneously with kamui. It's obvious we can't say that he couldn't use those techniques before even though we never saw him do it (as tobi and as adult. He used as child in the flashbacks). Another thing, his mokuton use in this chapter appears to coincide with the black chakra rods which sync with gedou mazou and manipulation of victims afflicted with the rods. That circumstance might be a factor in his decision or possible inability to use mokuton while not synchronized with the demon statue. That last thought is pretty unlikely. I think he just refrained from using combat abilities while he was undergoing steps of the moon's eye plan. He was shown to be avoiding combat most of the time and therefore had no need for katon or mokuton. What if his chakra levels we still know nothing about?
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  6. #106
    Senior Member Jean-Marie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    203
    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    ...Something else, though, is obito/tobi did not use any jutsu other than his space time, sharingan genjutsu, and izanagi from his secret spare. Now that he is fighting kakashi,gai, bee, and naruto he suddenly starts using famed uchiha fire techniques in tandem and even simultaneously with kamui. It's obvious we can't say that he couldn't use those techniques before even though we never saw him do it (as tobi and as adult. He used as child in the flashbacks). ...
    Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    ...Another thing, his mokuton use in this chapter appears to coincide with the black chakra rods which sync with gedou mazou and manipulation of victims afflicted with the rods. That circumstance might be a factor in his decision or possible inability to use mokuton while not synchronized with the demon statue. That last thought is pretty unlikely. I think he just refrained from using combat abilities while he was undergoing steps of the moon's eye plan. He was shown to be avoiding combat most of the time and therefore had no need for katon or mokuton. What if his chakra levels we still know nothing about?
    I'm puzzled by the black rods.
    Is it just black wood or is it the well known chakra rods used by the rinnegan's user? Obito had no rinnegan at the moment he suddently could use the mokuton and the rods appeared.
    On the other hand Nagato used the rinnegan to summon the mazou, and then the mazou forcely pierced Nagato's body with the rods. But here we already have a Mazou. So no need of Rinnegan, I guess.

  7. #107
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    532
    Quote Originally Posted by Jean-Marie View Post
    Good point.


    I'm puzzled by the black rods.
    Is it just black wood or is it the well known chakra rods used by the rinnegan's user? Obito had no rinnegan at the moment he suddently could use the mokuton and the rods appeared.
    On the other hand Nagato used the rinnegan to summon the mazou, and then the mazou forcely pierced Nagato's body with the rods. But here we already have a Mazou. So no need of Rinnegan, I guess.
    The funny thing is nagato had madara's rinnegan while madara was still "nursing " the demon statue in the lotus. I am curious as to the timing of his awakening rinnegan and the birth of the lotus and or gedou. Were the mazous originate from madara's rinnegan or before?

    Madara is attached to the mazou, nagato has madara's rinnegan, obito appears to have black rods emerging from his mokuton. What's going on? I think obito might not be producing the black rods, might just be dirty clean up by the scanners. Dark wood perhaps?

    Perhaps the black rods are hashirama's "black wood", in the vein of sasuke's "black flame/amaterasu" or darui's "black lightning". Either way, it's pretty elite.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  8. #108
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    3,940
    Zetsus are made of Hashirama clone connected to Mazou, but their consciousness are birthed thanks to Madara sharing his mental/spiritual energies with them (he has 3 tubes, one for sending his energies on his head and the rest for sucking chakra ?). That's why, in difference to the Soulless Hashirama Clone, they have a mind of their own.

    There are at least 2, or more Zetsus which were used to substitute for Obito's parts (at that point, they were more like Hashirama soulless clones, or so it seems). The Spiral one, whose internal parts were used to substitute for Obito's internal organs (that's why it's empty --->>>) and the Left Sided Zetsu, whose external parts were used to substitute for Obito's skin and muscles(?) around the right side of his body along with half of his arm... or not , because that Zetsu mentions that all other are HIS clones (--->>> top right panel), thus he must have been before them, so perhaps his parts are joined with Madara ? Thus it's possible that simply other clones were used to substitute for Obito's limbs.

    Obito can use mokutoun without the Zetsu Suit, thanks to his Hashirama's artificial body parts (top panels):
    Spoiler!

    It's probably just not on the level were he can make good enough damage compared to it's chakra cost. The Zetsu Suit most likely strengthens his Mokuton powers, as the Zetsu himself holds some chakra.

    What's really strange, is the fact that the Spiral Zetsu was reconnected back to Mazou at some point:
    Spoiler!

    yet they said that Obito, just like them, doesn't need to eat or drink anymore (--->>>). This might be because the Spiral Zetsu gave out too much parts of himself and thus probably had to be relinked with the statue from time to time and perhaps going out with Obito was an one way trip from the beginning... thus explaining why we don't see him anymore ? Or perhaps Madara was giving him special orders through the roots, who knows ?

    The rods might have been used to patch up Obito's crushed bones. Plus later on it would allow him to control GM, without it sucking him dry, or so it seems.



  9. #109
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Fargo, North Dakota USA
    Posts
    6,961
    The reason for connecting the spiral Zetsu to the Root of the Mazou is this:

    Spoiler!


    Obito borrowed some power from the Mazou as an extra boost, to be able to smash the rock blocking his escape path.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  10. #110
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    3,940
    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    The reason for connecting the spiral Zetsu to the Root of the Mazou is this:

    Spoiler!


    Obito borrowed some power from the Mazou as an extra boost, to be able to smash the rock blocking his escape path.
    The thing is, he was already connected before the L Zetsu came. This might imply that Rin's death was really Madara'd doing... or the moment that L Zetsu came close enough, he got the info telepathically and connected himself to Mazou, because he knew how Obito would react and that he would need his help to get out.



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •