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  1. #71
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    i dont post too much, but i wanted to get your thoughts on this page 18 of chapter 605, via mangastream

    nar.jpg

    In the upper right panel, you see a dying ninja, unconscious after absorbing a knee to the face from Tobi. What I thought was odd was its headband. Its corner is pointy, which doesnt match the hidden mist village's headband. Kishi oddly focuses on this ninja, zooming in on his face while his mask drifts off.Why does Kishi focus on this ninja? Any possibility these are not bloody mist ninjas? maybe they are leaf anbu in disguise? Who knows if Danzo could have been after whatever Rin possessed. Just a theory, haha

  2. #72
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    About Rin, I don't buy the spy theory.

    Based on how the Mist ninja's reacted after Kakashi attacked her, it seems likely they're after some innate ability of hers...possibly something they themselves planted in her.

    Also, Rin isn't dead yet.

    Next chapter, Rin regains consciousness (ala Jiraiya), recognizes Obito standing over her, and we all get to hear the truth of what caused Kakashi to do what he did...which will turn out to be him sacrificing her at HER REQUEST, in order to prevent the Mist from accomplishing whatever plot they were attempting. And then she dies.

    And thus we now understand why Obito blames Kakashi for letting Rin die, and not for killing her.

  3. #73
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    Was reading back over chapter 602 and noticed this may have been a different translation to what I originally read and Madara says "it's almost as if you were able to slip away from it"

    Spoiler!


    Now people have said it was too convenient for Obito to just slip into Madara's cave but maybe Obito survived and was found by madara because his multi-dimension ability may have been activated as the rock was crushing him just making him survive and this is maybe why he could not feel his right side. This could also explain Zetsu saying how Madara 'chose him'. Now I am not saying his MS was activated before this chapter but maybe the ability activated but he had no control over it and this could have caused him to slip through the earth where he could be found by a Zetsu who would be moving through the ground constantly.

    Note in the above page Obito also says 'My ancestor' now this might be the just as in an Uchiha's but it could mean he is a direct relation and this could mean Madara might have idea what his unique MS ability is.

    Also in this Chapter Madara mentioned that this reality is hell, the same thing that Obito said at the end of 605 so it looks like he will be going straight back

    Spoiler!
    Last edited by trenthamboy; 10-11-2012 at 07:22 AM.

  4. #74
    Que gatito mas leeendo!!! hikonami's Avatar
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    i think the fact that obito didn't kill kakashi at that moment means he knows why kakashi did it. if not, he would have killed him alongside the mist ninjas.
    Miau, Miau, Miau.....prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!

  5. #75
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    I can't believe that some posts say obito and kakashi have EMS.

    * Itachi explained how EMS is achieved, between 2 Uchiha having MS. An uchiha with the power to awaken MS and has done so will then apply that power into another set of MS unlocked eyes and the powers of the that particular uchiha will combine with powers present in the eyes of the previous uchiha. Ems is the result of a pair of sharingan reflecting the nature and power of 2 uchiha in successive order.

    * blindness might be the result of MS developing and growing through each use, not just by use alone. The more steps the eye takes towards susanoo and rinnegan the more it costs. It seems that leveling up in power is a mandatory requirement for a sharingan to lose it's light.

    * The pattern of Obito and kakashi's MS has never changed or shown any difference from when kakashi first used kamui vs. Deidara, the times using kamui vs. Tobi in recent chapters and the time it awoke when he appeared to have killed rin.

    * obito has an obvious answer/ work-around with hashirama body parts attached to the side of his body sustaining his sharingan.

    * kakashi is not an uchiha, therefore he will naturally overcome the weakness all uchiha naturally have, the weakness of relying too much on MS. Kakashi has the fortune situation of knowing many powerful jutsu to accomplish something without his MS as an immediate go-to.

    * kakashi does not have uchiha spiritual energy nor does he have whatever special ingredient in uchiha blood possesses to deposit into a mangekyo, much less Eternal mangekyo. Only uchiha have that special ingredient.

    * we don't see onsetting blindness with kakashi for 2 possible reasons, mangekyo can only deteriorate as a pair, just like it develops as a pair. The full Ms power is not being utelized and therefore might not incur full penalty. Another reason might also be that since kakashi lacks the uchiha ingredients to improve his eye and activate new powers, his eye will just always be the same.

    * the rinnegan was not reached by obito's eyes because his sharingan is not complete (only one eye from his pair) and therefore cannot reach his full potential nor use the greater powers of sharingan necessary to develop his eyes further and to the point necessary to transform into rinnegan.

    * it had been stressed enough in the manga by now that sharingan must evolve as a pair or risk hitting a skill ceiling.

    Obito and kakashi each have a unique situation in regards to their sharingan but in no way does either translate into EMS. one sharingan is marinaded in senju juice and the other is missing all the blessings and curses of a true blooded uchiha that shapes a sharingan. Simply transplanting a sharingan guarantees nothing, absolutely nothing, in what sort of power or status it has.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  6. #76
    Senior Member Temperjoke's Avatar
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    It's implied that Kakashi has experience for himself the eye degeneration caused by usage of the MS: http://www.mangapanda.com/93-262-9/n...apter-257.html . If I had to guess, part of the reason Kakashi doesn't seem to be as impaired by the degeneration is because only one of his eyes is going blind from MS use. His other non-Uchiha eye is probably perfectly fine, and able to be used in targeting for his Kamui jutsu (as long as he compensates for the angle difference due to eye placement). It's no different than someone in real life who's lost an eye.

    As for why Obito hadn't killed Kakashi, you have to remember, he's been in mindless rage mode, killing the ninja who came after him or tried to get in his way. Until the point that he'd had enough and decided to kill them all. Kakashi, having passed out (probably from the emotional trauma combined with the shock of his sharingan evolving, wasn't a threat or even in the way. I'd also imagine that Obito is the sort of person to demand an acknowledgement and an answer from Kakashi for why he killed Rin.

    It's nice that the sharingan evolution was kept intact as a requirement. The sheer emotional trauma and despair at seeing the love of his life die, Rin, forced Obito's eyes to evolve super fast. (For person who mentioned it, killing a loved one to gain the MS was proven to be misleading, as Sasuke gained the MS after emotionally coming to terms with Itachi's death, he didn't kill Itachi so it couldn't be a requirement)

    Quote Originally Posted by USA View Post
    i dont post too much, but i wanted to get your thoughts on this page 18 of chapter 605, via mangastream

    nar.jpg

    In the upper right panel, you see a dying ninja, unconscious after absorbing a knee to the face from Tobi. What I thought was odd was its headband. Its corner is pointy, which doesnt match the hidden mist village's headband. Kishi oddly focuses on this ninja, zooming in on his face while his mask drifts off.Why does Kishi focus on this ninja? Any possibility these are not bloody mist ninjas? maybe they are leaf anbu in disguise? Who knows if Danzo could have been after whatever Rin possessed. Just a theory, haha
    I noticed that, but it's hard to predict exactly what symbol was underneath. It could have also been an accident in drawing too. Or the Leaf ninja (if it was) could have been an infiltrator.

  7. #77
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    ^ it's possible that Kakashi concluded it from Kisame's words, that those eyes (MS) are dangerous for Itachi as well (http://www.mangapanda.com/93-262-8/n...apter-257.html), with the fact that they had to retreat right away after performing the jutsu, after which the readers see Itachi deactivating his Sharingan completely. Seeing as a normal Uchiha doesn't have the same disadvantages with the body as Kakashi (by watching Sasuke for example as well as by listening to Itachi's words), the only strain that they might get, is to the eyes and their eyesight.

    Beside, Kakashi closes his normal eye most of the time while he is fighting using the Sharingan, especially when he targets with Kamui.

    Perhaps his eye does deteriorate, but it certainly is at a much slower rate compared to other Uchiha. He had an MS for at least 16 years (with the last 3 years of using it, especially more often in the last 1 year), that's quite a lot, considering some ninja don't even live that long. He can alway compare it with his normal eyesight, so actually Kakashi should be the one that notices the deterioration the fastest of them all, unless he noticed, but thought it is normal for Sharingan or his case ?



  8. #78
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    Again high quality discussion here.

    ^I am certain that Kakashi rarely used Kamui on ocasions we did not see. He didn't use it even against someone as strong as Kakuzu. That is why it did not detoriorate his vision. And warping Naruto clone was the only time he bled using Kamui. Probably, he was never using it with full power before.

    What made me wandering is: why didn't Obito go for Kakashi's sharingan at some point later. Here he was probably very confused and couldn't think about it, but at some later point he could easily find Kakashi, kill him and get the eye back. He would certainly be stronger with his eyes paired. Maybe the Minato battle would go the other way. Old man Madara already said that he needs both of his eyes to unlock their full potential. Maybe he still had some feelings for Kakashi, like when Sasuke didn't kill Naruto to unlock MS and explained that he didn't want to do as Itachi said...

    @USA: You, sir, are right. I have also noticed that guy's face on the first reading and it was strange. The way Kishi draws, that panel and that face must have a certain meaning, which we are yet to see. Highly suspicious is that they all have the same mask, as somebody already noticed, and that nobody used any ninjutsu. Jonin level? I don't think so.

    Final: who awakened MS? I think it was Kakashi for both eyes, not Obito. He did as Itachi said - kill his best friend.
    Last edited by bjnpav; 10-11-2012 at 08:27 PM. Reason: spelling

  9. #79
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    I think Kakashi and Obito independently both awakened MS at the same time out of grief.

  10. #80
    Senior Member Execution's Avatar
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    This chapter was pleasantly surprising I didn't think Kishi had it in him to show a massacre with such grim detail. Even the Uchiha massacre was never shown in it's entirety. It's quite possibly the goriest chapter of Naruto to date.

    Wait a second...
    Spoiler!

    Is Obito crying from his empty left eye socket? Is that even possible?

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