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  1. #61
    Senior Member Temperjoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by POW View Post
    You know another plot hole from this chapter....

    once you awaken the MS you eyes sight is suppose to deteriorate soooo Kakashi never noticed his eye sight getting worse?
    I think it deteriorates from using the MS, not just having unlocked it. Kakashi never started using the MS until after Itachi used his on Kakashi. Sasuke started spamming his MS shortly after awakening it, and experienced the deterioration.

    I don't think that either Kakashi or Obito have the EMS either. I believe the deterioration from using the MS was countered by the Hashirama cells that Obito has been infused with. What I don't understand is, why didn't Obito unlock the Rinnegan for himself? There must be more required to unlock it than just Uchiha eyes and Senju cells.

  2. #62
    Beer and Music
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    I always had a feeling that Kakashi unlocked his MS by witnessing Rin die, but to kill her? Daaaamn, that caught me off guard!
    About time Kishimoto did something logical. And the reason why he never used it was because he couldn't control it, so he trained to use it for years, then finally was able to use it against Deidara.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Jean-Marie's Avatar
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    Madara the strongest and Tobi helping fighting him?
    Right now Madara is the stronguest. But the 10-tail is about to be revived. The 10-tails is supposed to be stronger than Madara; is also immortal; is would possibly follow the command of Tobi.
    Madara might still have the power to order all the added parts on Tobi to abandon him. Tobi would then be back to the dying half Obito form. Therefore I don't believe much in a fight Tobi-Madara. More likely a betrayal of Tobi: like suddently entrusting the 10-tails to Naruto, and being immediately being reduced to the dying half Obito by Madara.


    The 10-tails is growning for too long now in the gedo mazu. After such a built-up would sound strange that Tobi would be stopped in time. But if Kishi is on a playful mood, the 10-tails could still appear as a useless baby beast.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Jean-Marie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by POW View Post
    You know another plot hole from this chapter....

    once you awaken the MS you eyes sight is suppose to deteriorate soooo Kakashi never noticed his eye sight getting worse?
    This is why I was saying before it looks like EMS and not MS. You need a eye transplantation for an EMS. The transplantation did occur.
    No plot hole to me.

  5. #65
    Beer and Music
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    Quote Originally Posted by POW View Post
    You know another plot hole from this chapter....

    once you awaken the MS you eyes sight is suppose to deteriorate soooo Kakashi never noticed his eye sight getting worse?

    Quote Originally Posted by Temperjoke View Post
    I think it deteriorates from using the MS, not just having unlocked it. Kakashi never started using the MS until after Itachi used his on Kakashi. Sasuke started spamming his MS shortly after awakening it, and experienced the deterioration.

    I don't think that either Kakashi or Obito have the EMS either. I believe the deterioration from using the MS was countered by the Hashirama cells that Obito has been infused with. What I don't understand is, why didn't Obito unlock the Rinnegan for himself? There must be more required to unlock it than just Uchiha eyes and Senju cells.
    Yeah I agree. He's only used it in tight situations, and that was only a handful of times. And yeah, Sasuke was using it like a 12 year old discovering masturbation for the first time.

    Also, I thought Kakashi started using MS till he was strong enough to use it (by training)? To which he said when chasing Deidara. Only, if I remember correctly, he said he unlocked it by training. After it was revealed how to truly get MS, I had a feeling that Kakashi had to have witnessed a close friend's death/killed a friend, but because it was Kakashi, I don't think it could have been the latter one. And that after he unlocked it, he was just too weak to use it. He fainted after it was unlocked lol Poor Kakashi, you're awesome as hell, but you have a the chakra limits of a child.

  6. #66
    The chapter was only so-so for me. We finally get to see how the MS was awakened for both of them. Interested to see where this goes.

    Also, its hard not to admit how strong Obito is. With the fact that he was able to become a Chunin without activating his eyes and now with his boost from his eyes and the spiral suit. He was able to kill so many Jounin easily.....It makes complete sense why he has been on such a higher level that everyone else, in present time.

  7. #67
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by POW View Post
    You know another plot hole from this chapter....

    once you awaken the MS you eyes sight is suppose to deteriorate soooo Kakashi never noticed his eye sight getting worse?
    For Kakashi, it's that he has a transplanted eye anyway, thus it works like EMS, but without additional power up (well the Crow's eye didn't loose the light as well, even after 10 years, nor it did for Daznou which he used more often than the Crow), or, if we assume that the Senju Cells allow you to level the eye's deterioration, then it simply means that Kakashi's blood is close enough to the Younge Son's to level the eye's deterioration as well.

    IIRC, in a proper translation of the first fight between Itachi and Kakashi, Itachi admits that Kakashi's "body" is compatible with the eye, but doesn't have the blood (soul?) to fully master/utilize it.

    I have to wonder thought, If Obito was dead, would Kakashi even be able to achieve MS ? It looked like it was only possible thanks to their connection (as shown by the shared vision). It looked like while Kakashi was sending the vision to Obito, Obito was sending his Spiritual Energies to Kakashi, what's more both of their eyes became MS at the same time, while only Kakashi did the killing. Well, I guess Obito might feel responsible, because he gave Kakashi the Eye, which was used in a jutsu to kill Rin (Chidori was completed thanks to Sharingan). Perhaps it was thanks to Obito feeling responsible for her death, that the eye Kakashi had became MS as well, because it was close enough to Obito, to the point it actually worked for Obito (the vision) like if it was in his eye socket ?

    Anyway, Obito was already overusing his MS in his first bigger battle after recovery, so it really seems that the Senju Cells are enough to erase, or at least reduce, the Eye's deterioration... unless, at some point in time, he swapped his eyes to another and then returned back to his own, or perhaps as long as you have only one MS, you won't go blind, which would mean that the energies coming out of both of the eyes, are simply too great for their bodies, which thinned bloodline, to withstand ? Then again, why would EMS do the trick in the end ?



  8. #68
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    I believe Kakashi wasn't even aware of his MS until after the Timeskip, and his stamina issues with MS prevented him from over-using it in the same way Sasuke or Itachi would have. Maybe his eyesight deteriorated a bit, but we know that the primary cause of blindness is from over-using the MS, and the deterioration is otherwise very gradual. For instance Sasuke was blind after less than a month of having the MS, while Itachi had the MS for years before being totally blind (despite mastering it to a higher degree in that time somehow).

    I don't believe Kakashi's blood is particularly close to the Senju (or rather, he doesn't exemplify any of the Younger Son's traits). However, simply his wise use of the Sharingan / MS allowed him to keep his eyesight. I don't think he gained any "EMS" type boosts by having a transplanted eye; he noticed his eyesight deteriorating, and because of this knew that Itachi must be experiencing the same thing.

    Obito/Danzou probably DID keep their eyesight through a Hashirama Life Force boost; I believe the "Life-giving" qualities of Hashirama's power enable the eye to regenerate or maintain its health. As for Shisui, I believe the limitations of his technique (can only be used on very rare occasions) prevented the sort of MS-spamming.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    ^ Actually, his hair itself seems to point to the withered form of Uzumaki. Seeing as an Uzumaki's hair, who overuses his life force energies, becomes white/gray. Still that person is capable of using jutsus, as shown by Nagato and the fact that the leader of the Uzumakis (at Hashirama's time), was white-haired (or so it seemed form the manga ;P). He might have retired some advantages from his ancestors.

    Even if he wasn't using his MS, he still had it for about 16-17 years, which is most of his life, not to mention that he started using it more ofter in the recent 3 years. There had to be something that allowed his eye to be still usable up to this point in time. It might not have lifted the Deterioration effects as whole, but something did reduce it quite effectively. What's more, Kakashi's aim seems to be getting better, which would be the opposite if his vision was getting worse.

    Then again, the problem doesn't lie in the eyes themselves, because if you give a near blind eyes (from donors perspective) to your brother, they will be as good as new for him. Not to mention that Madara has currently a third (although incomplete) pair of eyes, which doesn't seem to go blind (although it might be thanks to Hashirama's cells this time).



  10. #70
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by POW View Post
    Actually if you follow the story Zabuza at this point in the flashback had already massacred the 100 students at the academy. The bloody Mist practice of having students kill students clearly predates Tobi's influence. Also the brutal civil wars combined with the student killings are part of the moniker Bloody Mist.
    I thought the Mist became known as the bloody mist ONLY after Yagura was under Madara's cotrol. I have been looking through the Manga searching for evidence of this, but I haven't been able to.

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