View Poll Results: Rate This Chapter

Voters
24. You may not vote on this poll
  • Excellent

    6 25.00%
  • Good

    13 54.17%
  • So So

    3 12.50%
  • Bad

    0 0%
  • Horrible

    2 8.33%
Page 8 of 8 FirstFirst ... 6 7 8
Results 71 to 80 of 80
  1. #71
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    531
    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    @Knife eater,

    As the narrative went, Hashirama and Madara were part of two seperate rival Clans and they clashed in battle several times, until the two Clans finally agreed to form Konoha. This does not seem to allow for love interests between the two of them. Also, I could be wrong, but the Uchiha of those days seem to be a rather bloody bunch. I guess I am not seeing how Madara could be motivated by loss as someone who struggled for power and leadership, and finally acquired it at the cost of his own brother's eyesight.

    I am surprised that Madara would talk about love, hate and peace given his own history of seeking peace through Power and domminance Like the SO6P's older son.
    Very true, I do believe the narrative is accurate and true without leaving much room in the way of startling revelations. However, the old man madara, in personaluty and through his statements stands almost contrary to what we knew about madara up to that point. It's as if madara succumbed to change himself just shy of a paradigm shift. Furthermore, zetsu suggests that "bringing loved ones back from the dead" is a conscious and deliberate tenant within the dream world he intends to create. That is building up to the discovery madara indeed cared about one person and lost them and i don't think izuna quite fits in that. Zabuza is a perfect example of being part of conditions similar to uchiha's bloodier days yet still having the capacity to care about someone. It doesn't have to be a love interest but you also have to admit that the narrative you refer to is, in abstraction, a solid base for 'Romeo and Juliette'. Perhaps madara loved a senju woman? Like I said, the old man madara does not seem much in line with the madara of legend, the madara as name, nor the edo madara we get to see first hand. The old guy is just short of being awkwardly and twistedly compassionate. There must be something more to madara's motivation besides what we already know.

    Lastly, outside of naruto, almost every story in which a character wishes to create a dream world/false reality or succumb to fantasy, it is almost every time born from a desire to be with someone again that reality otherwise makes impossible. If madara has nobody besides himself then i find it hard to believe he would care to return to the world from death and subjugate it with illusion.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  2. #72
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Fargo, North Dakota USA
    Posts
    6,847
    I do wonder about bringing back the dead. Since this would be a world of Genjutsu, would the dead actually return?

    As far as all the poop jokes, one cannot help but see a slow-down in the pace of story telling. Hopefully Kishi is done being slow, but I do sense another 2-3 chapters in this mode.

    @ Knife eater,

    You are correct at how Old Man Madara seems more philosophical and more benign than his younger self. I certainly didn't sense any of that benign-ness in his more recent encounter with the 5 Kages. Perhaps Kabuto's presence and control had something to do with that.

    Honestly I don't think I get how Kishi plans to go with all of this. My confidence level at anticipating Kishimoto has taken something of a beating since the Tobi=Obito rvelation. What seems to make sense (to me) doesn't necessarily go that way.

    When you think about though, the ability of a writer to surprise the reader is critical to the continuation of the interesting quality of a literary piece, however if the writer's choices seem too transparent he may risk losing his audience. Fortunately, there is NO CHANCE of that happening with a writer of the caliber of Masashi Kishimoto.
    Last edited by paulbee; 10-01-2012 at 01:58 PM.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  3. #73
    Senior Member Maximo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Slovakia, not Slovenia - LEARN THE FUCKING DIFFERENCE !!!
    Posts
    1,802
    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    I do wonder about bringing back the dead. Since this would be a world of Genjutsu, would the dead actually return?
    [/I][/B]
    It is called Infinite Tsukyomi, so the way I understand it its gonna be an ilusionary jutsu. Madara also said "humanity would be better served sleeping in eternal genjutsu". So what this implies is that a person will be in a state of dreaming, about something peacefull and happy.

    To be honest, I cant see how is that any good for humanity. Everyone will be happy but at the same time the world would be empty, dull, stagnating and asleep. If it was actualy a jutsu that would change the entire reality into alternative one where people get brainwashed into complete harmlesness and slavery then I would have understand why Madara would chase after this goal.
    FAVOURITE MANGAS
    Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Fairy Tail, Claymore, Ao No Exorcist, Katekyo Hitman Reborn, Gamaran, Toriko, Vinland Saga, Gantz, Wolf Guy, Deadman Wonderland, Vagabond, Blade of The Immortal, Battle Royale, Zettman

  4. #74
    Senior Member Jean-Marie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    203
    Quote Originally Posted by rinnebadass View Post
    .. there's no cold bastards in Narutoverse. even madara has his own reasons... I want someone as a villain that enjoys to be bad and just wants to see the whole world burn.
    The very reason we all love the Naruto manga is because Kishi made it elaborate. There are no totally good ninjas, just as there are no totally evil ones. The evil ones happened to be not that evil as we have learned to know them better: Pain, Kurama, Itachi, ... Personally I loose interest very quickly in any story where the villain is 100% evil.

  5. #75
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Fargo, North Dakota USA
    Posts
    6,847
    Quote Originally Posted by Jean-Marie View Post
    The very reason we all love the Naruto manga is because Kishi made it elaborate. There are no totally good ninjas, just as there are no totally evil ones. The evil ones happened to be not that evil as we have learned to know them better: Pain, Kurama, Itachi, ... Personally I loose interest very quickly in any story where the villain is 100% evil.
    I think it's also okay to have a Hitler/Stalin/Idi Amin type character to contrast with the Good Hearted Hero.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  6. #76
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    531
    There is definitely a morality spectrum present and functional within the narutoverse. We have clear reference points positioned far in the "good" end but nothing is as well established on the "evil" end. It's as if kishimoto does not define evil in any sort of traditional relationship to his definition of good. Good is straightforward without complications in meaning or qualification. Evil has more to it; it is convoluted and rarely, if at all, present for its own sake.

    I don't mind so much the lack of extreme villains here. The presence of clear cut and undeniably good bent heroes makes up for it in a sense. It's the ambiguity, quasi-prodigal, and tarnished nature of the villains that present the biggest challenge to the ideals of the heroes. Simply being bad does not facilitate some of the more interesting motivations which drive the characters to action. Classic evil would warrant nothing more than flashy jutsu within a violent conflict and once it resolves there will be little in the way for characters to develop after the experience.

    IMO, we need either villains that operate through a simple and pure idea of evil or we need heroes that operate on a simple and pure idea of good but having both would upset the richness of how many characters have so far interacted. Starting with good and working down from there to develop the idea of what evil is in the story seems to work out pretty good so far, it's just that some things, especially this current war, are poorly executed and spring from an incomplete or weak concept. It does no service to any point of morality storywise I'm afraid.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  7. #77
    Senior Member janfeae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    324
    Hmm, I must say I like his message. No matter how evil someone is, all evil has a source. no one is born that way. There is always a reason; and in this series, for just about every big time villain, there is a story behind the path they have chosen.

    I still wonder about Orochimaru. We have had a flashback for Kabuto, which in turn gave me hope for understanding Orochimaru a little more before the series end; especially after his revival. He must have another role to play other than helping Sasuke. What happened when he was a young boy. What was it that Hiruzen saw?

  8. #78
    Doesn't it have something to do with is parents dying and that white snake? Maybe Kishimoto will elaborate on Orochimaru's past when he tells Sasuke everything.

  9. #79
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Fargo, North Dakota USA
    Posts
    6,847
    It's not just the fact that evil has a reason, cause, or a tragic trigger behind it (This is also true in the real world), it just seems that unlike the real world Kishi is not going to permit the existence of an unrepentant, unremitting, unapologetic, unsympathetic evil guy to exist.

    The Idea that Uchiha Madara may not really be a Sociopath, he genuinely wants to Save the World and end all suffering, if it ever goes that way, well..... I for myself prefer a true hard core Sociopath for the Final Villain Role.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  10. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    It's not just the fact that evil has a reason, cause, or a tragic trigger behind it (This is also true in the real world), it just seems that unlike the real world Kishi is not going to permit the existence of an unrepentant, unremitting, unapologetic, unsympathetic evil guy to exist.

    The Idea that Uchiha Madara may not really be a Sociopath, he genuinely wants to Save the World and end all suffering, if it ever goes that way, well..... I for myself prefer a true hard core Sociopath for the Final Villain Role.
    Indeed. I bet Kishimoto would grant even pedophiles redeeming ending.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •