One Piece 682 Discussion / 683 Predictions

**halaros536** · 09-26-2012, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by aggeroff

Again, I only read your posts that were directed at me, so I didn't know you said that.

right right, i get it, it makes sense but there is no way to prove it, that seems like a theme with our arguement.

I cant prove it in the sense that I cant get manga panels to show it,but dont find it strange that I consider it as a fact.I mean there's no real proof that post TS Kidd has physical stats comparable to Luffy,but I doubt anyone will be stupid enough to think otherwise.Its the same logic with Dofla.A guy who is currently even stronger than Luffy,will have insane physical stats,haki etc.

well then I have nothing new to talk about either, as if I haven't adressed those reasons then they weren't directed at me

Those reasons were stated in my previous posts,which was a reply to yours:

Did I ever say that he couldnt?But when two guys are fighting in a close distance you're gonna assume that the guy who is much faster,has much better reflexes,agility,experience etc,is the one who'll be landing attacks not the opposite.Thats like saying that we dont know what would happen if post TS Luffy fought Lucci,cause he could attack,use Shingan etc...

How can you possibly say that they arent directed at you?If you actually agree with that,then there's nothing left to debate........

I didn't say all other VA were leagues below Vergo, I'm just saying that not all are as strong as Vergo.

Thats obviously correct.But if you understand that they wont be leagues below him,you understand that they wont be pre TS Luffy level.

If Luffy was Rear admiral level then he would be high level Rear Admiral, if he is Vice Admiral rank he'd probably on the lowest level of Vice Admiral. I'm not saying Luffy was as strong as an adverage vice admiral, I'm just saying with he strength he could probably make the cut, barely of course. I have no proof of it, but I do admit I have no real proof, its just based on gut instinct. And yes him being Rear admiral level is just as possible, I apoligize for being stubbern.

No problem man,if you get it its fine by me.

Edit:Lol double post again.........

**aggeroff** · 09-26-2012, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by halaros536

I cant prove it in the sense that I cant get manga panels to show it,but dont find it strange that I consider it as a fact.I mean there's no real proof that post TS Kidd has physical stats comparable to Luffy,but I doubt anyone will be stupid enough to think otherwise.Its the same logic with Dofla.A guy who is currently even stronger than Luffy,will have insane physical stats,haki etc.

Those reasons were stated in my previous posts,which was a reply to yours:

How can you possibly say that they arent directed at you?If you actually agree with that,then there's nothing left to debate........

Thats obviously correct.But if you understand that they wont be leagues below him,you understand that they wont be pre TS Luffy level.

No problem man,if you get it its fine by me.

Edit:Lol double post again.........

Looks like we've both made our points already, so I guess there isn't anything left to talk about. Nice talking with you ^_^.

**Blackriot69** · 09-26-2012, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by aggeroff

I didn't say all other VA were leagues below Vergo, I'm just saying that not all are as strong as Vergo. If Luffy was Rear admiral level then he would be high level Rear Admiral, if he is Vice Admiral rank he'd probably on the lowest level of Vice Admiral. I'm not saying Luffy was as strong as an adverage vice admiral, I'm just saying with he strength he could probably make the cut, barely of course. I have no proof of it, but I do admit I have no real proof, its just based on gut instinct. And yes him being Rear admiral level is just as possible, I apoligize for being stubbern.

Quickly dipping my hand into the cookie jar.....again, I believe we know next to nothing about the strength differentiation between the Marine ranks. As I believe halaros mentioned, Lucci, who was not technically part of the Marines (rather a secret WG organization), was praised by the VAs for his strength. Similarily, we have members of the marines who are at a lower level than they could possibly be, such as Garp likely having enough merit for Admiral. Even still we have people like X Drake, a former marine turned pirate, which I believe the latter recognition far outpowers his RA status, as evidence by his 2 year havok in the NW; and Vergo, an undercover pirate turned marine, who is likely much more of a dangerous VA because of his pirate background than someone traditionally brought up as a Marine, ie Smoker.

I guess what I am attempting to convey, and I'll admit, I am struggling today with getting my messages across, is that like any system, there are levels within levels. Each rank/faction has members who share a basic set of strengths, abilities, etc, but they also are not singularly all on the same level. All East Blue pirates are not cut from teh same fabric, as evidence by Luffy and crew transcending that sea. All Shichibukai are not on the same level, as evidence of Mihawk being the WSS and Boa arguably being the weakest. Likewise, the VAs more than concretely have differences in power level, ie Vergo and Onigumo compared to Smoker and John Giant. So aggeroff, I'm not sure if you can accurately compare Luffy, a pirate, to that of a Marine rank for the simple fact that we don't know where the base line of the Marine ranks land. We didn't see much of the VA's fighting abilities in the war, and the Admirals were all but casually fighting.......

After this post I just need to quit......that was horrible.

**halaros536** · 09-26-2012, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by Blackriot69

All Shichibukai are not on the same level, as evidence of Mihawk being the WSS and Boa arguably being the weakest.

Come again?

**athary** · 09-26-2012, 10:35 PM

On what basis is Shanks haki stronger than Mihawk?Will you answer any of my questions or not?

And what are you saying?That Mihawk's haki wouldnt be enough to handle Dofla's power?How do you know that?

How about you start going with confirmed facts and not speculations for once?Shanks having greater haki than Mihawk is an assumption and a baseless one.Mihawk not being able to handle Dofla's power with his haki,just as good as Shanks would is another baseless assumption.Mihawk having greater hype than Dofla is a fact,which i will prefer instead of the speculation about how haki would work against a DF power,which we dont know how exctly it works

.

Dude do you read everything i post. i know you are debating with other people here => respect
but if you reply to my post at least read them anywhooo i'll anwser the question

i gave the example of smoker.
the stronger your haki is the more you can resist a DF power like dofla or Law (for example !!!!).
with that the haki of shanks is superiour to mihawk.
because: Shanks get his strenght soley from Haki and his swordmanship
the man doesn't have a DF. or something else. He's only got one freain ARM!!!!
SO please man please if shanks haki is not the strongest how the hell is he holding that position of YONKOU
Yes it's not only shanks but the crew included. But the captain makes the biggest diffrence.
As we see the WB pirates without the old man himself where dergraded.
it's the same with Garp who defintly is yonkou/admiral level
His strenght comes from haki , how the hell did he fought roger then
Now i also mentoined how shanks hakki was emphasized and commented on by the strongest
No why does mihawk's haki is inferior to shanks and garps for that mather
because we knever heard anything about his haki , just like the rest of the admirals it's known they have haki
but ODA never "hyped" it. His main powersource is his swordmanship in witch he RULES!!!

There you go again i didn't say mihwak haki isn't strong enough to handle dofla's power
you mis understand me . all i said shanks would have less trouble resisting his DF power due to his haki

I'm asking you for two posts now,to prove that.Instead,you just keep repeating your statement.Last time i checked,you're not proving a claim by repeating him over and over again

these are not claims but facts, that's all there is to it.

Have I ever said that Shanks' power as a Yonkou hasnt been hyped up?Have I ever denied that his haki has been emphasized?Instead of getting angry,give a little thought on my posts before replying without even understanding what I have said

DUDe i was explaining why shanks haki was stronger then mihawk
trust me man i don't get angry debating over one piece stuff lol
good boy => you talk about shanks haki beeing emphasized
shanks is probably the most hyped character after WB and rayleigh (ofcourse Gold d roger is the pirateking)
i say it again he overhypes mihawk by a long shot

Ray is a legend and his fame should be greater than Mihawk's due to his status as the former PK's firstmate.That wont change the simple fact that every single swordsman in OP is weaker than Mihawk and that includes Ray.That doesnt take away from Ray being a legend,it just means that Mihawk is that strong.

If you want me to buy that Oda is trolling us and Zoro,since the beginning of the manga and that Mihawk isnt actually the WSS,then sorry but I'm not buying that.

Dude you don't have to buy anything.
Do you read my previous posts?? Mihawk is the WSS i never doubted that and never denied that come on man....
But you logic about just because rayleigh is a swordman two so he will loose against mihawk
like we agreed or i that==> Ray in his prime > mihawk
here it again HAKI comes to play my friend it's Rayleigh superiour haki that makes him stronger
that + his swordmanship (in his prime) >>> mihawk

So,you're assuming something I never said(Mihawk>>>Marco) and you're attacking me on that?Kid,are you feeling ok?
And no,Marco is an admiral level fighter as well.

this i where you said it

Based on what?On nothing.Dofla would lose,because nothing in the manga places him on the same level as the admirals and Marco is an admiral level opponent.Mihawk is already confirmed to be stronger than an admiral fighter.

Remember when you said that i first though Admiral fighter was your way of saying admiral but you meant Admiral level fighter
Mihawk is confirmed to stronger then a admiral level fighter
Marco beeing admiral level
SO is admiral level fighter = beeing admiral level here ? this is what i assumed
you using therms like admiral fighter be a little specifiek here admiral level fighter is better discription.

You dont seem to understand how haki works.Even if Buggy is cut by haki he wont get hurt.Haki pretty much allows you to bypass the DF defenses in some way like in the logias case.For example you can damage Ace though he's a logia.Buggy's case is different,its not that he cannot be damaged or cut,its that his fruit allows him to manipulate his seperate body parts and pull them back together.Haki wouldnt change that,just like haki wont prevent Marco from regenerating.

Well if i go by your logic mihawk will never be able to defeat buggy

No,that doesnt prove why Kaido>>>Mihawk.Even if you believe that he's stronger than Mihawk the difference between top-tiers wont be really big.

Kaido is stronger then mihawk that's it .I rest my case.

Yonkou doesnt overhype Shichibukai.There's no set upper limit for Shichi strength,though what you say is what usually happens.And Mihawk is a special case,his hype doesnt come from his title as a Shichi,but from his WSS title.There is a reason as for why Mihawk's introduction panel mentioned him as the WSS and not as a Shichibukai,like it has been done with every other Shichibukai in the manga.Its because he has a title that far surpasses his Shichibukai title.
And there's no solid reason that a Yonkou should be above the WSS.The only thing we can deduce from both of these titles is,that their holdeers are on the very top of the world.
Comparisons like Yonkou>WSS,Yonkou>Admirals etc,dont have any evidence backing them up.
Stop claiming that you know things that you cant know and focus on what the manga has shown

Yes yonkou overhypes Shibukai
you can see that by the way all yonkou have been introduced
Shanks and WB => sky split when these to clash !!!
the introductions are more spectaculair you also see the fear of people when one of the names are mentioned
We see that in the new world eather you a yonkou's bitch or against them
While luffy already deafeated some shibukai
I personally believe mihawk is one of the strongest shibukai and already mentioned he is a special case

they way garp introduced The yonkou
(here i want to note my personal believe that shanks is second strongest yonkou after whitebeard because
when garp intreduced we see the picture of them with WB on top folowed by shanks than BM and then kaido. i'll admit it's the fanboy in me speaking lol !!!)

hmm you say something intresting WSS titlle>> shibukai tittle
HAHA YOU LITTLE FANBOY ...WHAT ABOUT YONKOU titlle >> shibukai tittle
THIs is your logic i mean come on ..your contradicting yourself here

That proves nothing.Yonkou isnt a title of personal strength only,otherwise Ray would be considered a yonkou.You need to have a top-tier crew to be one.Its the same reason as for why Mihawk isnt one either.
And of course I'm not saying that Boa is up there,but using your logic I can say that she's up there because its possible.

This only proves more that it is a fact that BOA is not yonkou level
she has a crew and she has a freaking island full of woman with haki. And still needs that shibukai title
for the islands safety .

As you can see,I did not say that he's above the admirals,so do something about your reading comprehension.Unlike you,I'm not claiming to know the currently unknown differences between top-tiers(like if Kizaru is stronger than Mihawk or vice versa).

Well as i mentioned above stop using therms that only you understand. aslo my englisch is not perfect far from it

Like i said before mihawk is admiral level just like ray and donfla
Mihawk and donfla would be a great matchup for admirale ...but they'll loose eventually

I only said one thing wrong => Rayleigh's name becuz he's on a diffrent level
DUDE because of the same reason Mihawk is admiral level
"HYPE"

First,stop yelling,it makes you look like a noob.And no,Wb would win because he's the WSM,Shanks isnt.

Again,who said that his haki isnt exceptionally strong?That doesnt mean that we can put him above his fellow top-tier for certain and thats not only for Mihawk.The same goes for Akainu,Kaidou and all other top-tiers.

And you're dodging the point.Whether Shanks is stronger than Mihawk is irrelevant Fact remains that Mihawk can be powerscaled to be much higher than Dofla

Woww didn't know you ca nectually hear me anywhoo yelling is not my style...
The haki thing i'm not explaining that again (read above)
yes WB would win !!!

First of all Names like shanks , akaini, aoukiji , kizaru , BM, Kaido ,BB
MIHAWK DOESN't BELONG in this group!!!! yes he is admiral level but he'll loose to any of these
AND i'm SAYING THIS BECAUSE you keep giving that idea that mihawk somehow is strongest character in one piece
yes you don't say it bold manner but youre lttle fanboy brain thinks that

He is a shibukai just like don flamingo (if anything donfla seems to have a heck of crew wich makes him more yonkou material then mihawk.

No,he isnt.Yonkou,Admirals,the WSS all have their hype that puts them at the top of the world.Yonkou arent inherently better than the admirals or Mihawk.

YEs SHANKS has been hyped more then mihawk throughout the whole series .
TAHT's a fact. you the one started with the hype
stating that mihawk was more hyped then donfla and thus stronger!!

to go back to the main debate => donfla >> mihawk or mihawk >> donflamingo
can't be proven yet.

Stop claiming that you know things that you cant know and focus on what the manga has shown.

i think you should listen to your own words!!
fact is we don't even know the name of his (donfla) DF and other details of it.
THe man has never been seen loosing a fight just like mihawk
He was never threatend in any way during the war or injured (this also goed for mihawk)
he didn't have a problem fighting croc for a simple idiotic reason and moria
Someone without confidence would never do that
He has never seen to be serious , has a great influence
he has heck of a crew with vergo

He's been hyped in the series and he is now only just beeing fully introduced !!!
This is one of the reasons why i can't say that mihawk is stronger then donfla or vice versa
suck it up lolzzz

**halaros536** · 09-26-2012, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by athary

.

i gave the example of smoker.
the stronger your haki is the smore you can resist a DF power like dofla or Law.
with that the haki of shanks is superiour to mihawk

I know that.I never said otherwise.

because: Shanks get his strenght soley from Haki and his swordmanship
the man doesn't have a DF. or something else. He's only got one ARM!!!!
SO please man please if shanks haki is not the strongest how the hell is he holding that position of YONKOU
Yes it's not only shanks but the crew included. But the captaind makes the bighest diffrence.

Stop saying haki and swordsmanship already.Thats like saying that Mihawk gets his power from his physical strength and swordmanship.His swordsmanship is just that good because of a great combination of haki,strength,speed,reflexes,endurance,durability, technique,experience,perception etc.Haki for a swordsman is a part of his swordsmanship they are not seperate things.

He's holding it because he's that strong,there's nothing else here.And even if his haki is stronger than Mihawk and he can be more effective aginst Dofla than Mihawk thats beside the point.That means that Shanks is more capable of dealing with Dofla than Mihawk,it does not mean that Mihawk is a bad mtchup against Dofla or that swordsmen are a bad matchp against him as you claimed.

There you go again i didn't say mihwak haki isn't strong enough to handle dofla's power
you mis understand me . all i said i shanks would have less trouble resisting his DF power due to his haki

So,then why is Mihawk a bad matchup against Dofla's power.You're just saying how Shanks is better than Mihawk

these are not claims but facts, that's all there is to it.

Shanks' haki being greater than Mihawk's is an assumption,which may or may not be correct.

DUDe i was explaining why shanks haki was stronger then mihawk
trust me man i don't get angry debatinf over one piece stuff lol
good boy => you talk about shanks haki beeing emphasized
shanks is probably the most hyped character after WB and rayleigh (ofcourse Gold d roger is the pirateking)
i say it again he overhypes mihawk by a long shot

No,he isnt.His hype includes him being a Yonkou hich makes him a top-tier no different from admirals or the other Yonkou and clashing with Wb for some seconds which every other Yonko should be able to do.And I dont really care if you think that Shanks or Kaido are above Mihawk.I'm calling you out for ridiculous statements like "Kaidou>>>>Mihawk".Such differences dont exist among top-tiers,because top-tiers by definition arent far below anyone.

Dude you don't have to buy anything.
Do you read my previous posts?? Mihawk is the WSS i never doubbted that and never denied that come on man....
But you logic about just because rayleigh is a sword man to he will loose
like we agreed or i that==> Ray in his prime > mihawk

If you accept that,you know that he's stronger than Ray.

here it again HAKI comes to play my friend it's Rayleigh superiour haki that makes him strong
that + his swordmanship >>> mihawk

Mihawk's title means that he's above every swordsman in the world,not above all swordsmen except those who have great haki.Haki is not a fighting style of its own and it doesnt make Rayleigh any less of a swordsman.And all swordsmen are weaker than Mihawk in this manga.Its not rocket science.

this i where you said it

Can you not read or are completely incapable of telling the difference between two different notions?

I said that Mihawk is stronger than an admiral level fighter,not than all admiral level fighters and why can you not understand that someone being stronger than someone else,doesnt necasarily mean that he's far,far stronger than said guy?I simply said stronger and you translated it to Mihawk>>>>>Marco.Whats wrong with you?

Well if i go by your logic mihawk will never be able to defeat buggy

Thats not my logic,thats how haki works.And Mihawk cant beat Buggy by cutting him.That doesnt mean that he cant one shot him with a punch.

KAido is stronger then mihawk that's it .i rest my case.

I'm not saying that to offend you,I really dont,but you're acting like a 9 year old kid.Saying your opinion again and again while not giving reasons or it and when someone brings counter arguments,you just repeat your opinion.Anyway,like I said there's nothing wrong with Kaidou being stronger than Mihawk,its just that there wont be a great difference between the two like you think.

Yes yonkou overhypes Shibukai
you can see that by the way all yonkou have been intreduced
Shanks and WB => sky split when these to clash !!!
the introductions are more spectaculair you also see the fear of people when one of the names are mentioned

Yonkou are generally above most Shichibukai,but Mihawk is not your common Shichi.He's a confirmed top-tier.

While luffy already deafeated some shibukai

Irrelevant.Its not like all the Shichi are close in terms of power level and we're talking about Mihawk specifically who has nothing to do with Croc or Moria and happens to be a top-tier fighter.

they way garp intreduced The yonkou
(here i want to note my personal believe that shanks is second strongest yonkou after whitebeard because
when garp intreduced we see the picture of them with WB on top folowed by shanks than BM and then kaido. i'll admit it's the fanboy in me speaking lol !!!)

Thats a ridiculous reason actually,but either way whether Shanks is the second strongest Yonkou has nothing to do with our debate.

hmm you say something intresting WSS titlle>> shibukai tittle
HAHA YOU LITTLE FANBOY ...WHAT ABOUT YONKOU titlle >> shibukai tittle[/B]
THIs is your logic i mean come on ..your contradicting yourself here

You're not in position to talk about contradictions athary,chill out.

I'm saying that based on a certain reasoning.Mihawk is the one and only Shichibukai who has ben introduced with another title other than that of his Shichi title in his first appearence.Again,there's no other case like that in the manga.If you believe that Oda chose to do it that way,because he didnt want to show exactly that,then something is terribly wrong with you.

Do I need to say again,that obviously most Shichibukai are weaker than the Yonkou?Fact remains hat someone being a Shichi doesnt automatically make him weaker than the Yonkou.

This only proves more that it is a fact that BOA is not yonkou level
she has a crew and she has a freaking island full of woman with haki. And still needs that shibukai title
for the islands safety .

Its getting really boring when half of pmy post is me correcting you for not having read my arguments carefully.BoA has a crew,she does not have an Emperor level crew,her crew is weak.Thats like saying that Shanks would be a Yonkou if he had Arlong's crew.

No matter what you say,Mihawk doesnt have a crew,so he couldnt have been a Yonkou,even if he was stronger than Wb himself.So the logic that Mihawk is weaker than Kaido or Shanks because he's not a yonkou and they are,is a fallacious one.

Well as i mentioned above stop using therms that only you understand. aslo my englisch is not perfect far from it

I cant know what terms you are familiar with,I cant read other people's mind.If you dont understand something you can just ask me.As you can see,I have a lot of patience.

First of all Names like shanks , akaini, aoukiji , kizaru , BM, Kaido ,BB
MIHAWK DOESN't BELONG in this group!!!! yes he is admiral level but he'll loose to any of these
AND i'm SAYING THIS BECAUSE you keep giving that idea that mihawk somehow is strongest character in one piece
yes you don't say it bold manner but youre lttle fanboy brain thinks that

No,I dont think that and I never implied it either so stop pretending that you can read my mind,when you cant.I'm saying that he's a top-tier and I cant say who of the top-tiers can beat others.

You calling me a fanboy wont change anything.I'm backing up what I'm claiming.I said that I believe that Mihawk is a top-tier and gave strong arguments for that.I neve said that he's stronger than Kaido or Aka,cause thats something we dont know.You on the other hand,has decided that he's weaker than all those top-tiers you mentioned,because it makes sense to you that Zoro's final opponent is the weakest top-tier there is and you are not bringing up a shred of evidence to support that.You're not proving something by repeating it again and again and you're not making yourself look good now.

YEs SHANKS has been hyped more then mihawk throughout the whole series .
TAHT's a fact. you the one started with the hype

Thats not a fact.It doesnt make a difference if you use capital letters,it doesnt make your argument any better.Shanks hype makes him one of the strongest in the world and so does Mihawk's.The fact that you find him cooler isnt hype.And even if Shanks is stronger,its irreleavnt to our argument.And why do you keep ingoring the fact that Mihawk is a confirmed top-tier and Dofla's not?Are you gonna kep ignoring that forever?Are you that terrible of a debater?

i think you should listen to your own words!!
fact is we don't even know the name of his (donfla) DF and other details of it.
THe man has never been seen loosing a fight just like mihawk
He was never threatend in any way during the war or injured (this also goed for mihawk)
he didn't have a problem fighting croc for a simple idiotic reason and moria
Someone without confidence would never do that
He has never seen to be serious , has a great influence
he has heck of a crew with vergo

Dofla actually had a little bruise after that war,but thats irrelevant.All you're saying is how strong Dofla is,which he is.He's never been hyped as a top-tier though,get that though your head.