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  1. #81
    Senior Member tinatinaww's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Bones View Post
    I'm I the only one who has no problems with this? I think it all makes sense, although I never took any side of the whole "Obito is Tobi" theories years back. To me it seems like it's all a coincidence that Obito slipped through those rocks and ended up in Madara's hideout. I have no problem with that at all. Obito didn't even know about his power, nor did Madara.
    yep, I'm OK with this part too, there are still other problems though...

  2. #82
    Senior Member Ducky76's Avatar
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    There probably is a very simple explanation for all this which will unravel in the next few chapters as Occam's razor theory would suggest. A week is too long to wait for sometimes especially when mysteries and puzzles are about to be explained and solved..

    My mind suddenly thinks about this manga series and starts looking for explanations why Tobi is Obito. Perhaps my brain is thinking, even up to now, that it can't be that simple to convert an idealistic and hopeful young man to becoming one of the most dangerous, manipulative person without a care for what's going to happen.. anyway, we shall see and find out together friends..

    @paulbee -> your theory that Madara killed Rin to break Obito's will is not really that easy to swallow and digest. I think it would encourage Obito even more to oppose and reject Madara and his plans no matter how powerful the fail-safe genjutsu would be.. However, I find it easier to understand your theory that Madara and Obito's essences are occupying the same vessel or mind.. but then again, it all becomes ridiculously convoluted if this is true..

    I will continue to silently believe that it can't be Obito and it is Madara. I can't allow myself to believe that an awesome guy like Obito who still had a lot more reason to live for apart from losing Rin to be that evil. Just as I silently believe that Sasuke is not all that bad and will become Naruto's friend.. Gees, I am even sounding like Naruto! Hehehe

  3. #83
    Que gatito mas leeendo!!! hikonami's Avatar
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    obito was a child, a young child and his will could have been broken with the appropriate manipulation. his mind could have been messed up with tsukuyomi and that's a possible explanation to his change of heart
    Miau, Miau, Miau.....prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!

  4. #84
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    I'm surprised tsukiyomi gets the most mention when asking how obito was manipulated by madara. To me, obito's path to tobi would be more fraught with the subjection to izanami. I get where people are coming from when saying tsukiyomi but izanami can account for so much more! Izanami along with madara secretly orchestrating rin's death to prove the worth and necessity of his ideology and plan would be most potent in swaying obitio. The belief that madara didn't survive much longer means he had little use for the light in his last spare eye, casts izanami, then leaves or pieces out with obito under obedience.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  5. #85
    I'll be waiting, be sure. Yoru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    I'm surprised tsukiyomi gets the most mention when asking how obito was manipulated by madara. To me, obito's path to tobi would be more fraught with the subjection to izanami. I get where people are coming from when saying tsukiyomi but izanami can account for so much more! Izanami along with madara secretly orchestrating rin's death to prove the worth and necessity of his ideology and plan would be most potent in swaying obitio. The belief that madara didn't survive much longer means he had little use for the light in his last spare eye, casts izanami, then leaves or pieces out with obito under obedience.
    How would izanami change obito? I never really understood this jutsu. I see it can pull one out of arrogance and accept his true self, but how would it work with obito?

  6. #86
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    It's really funny how this Manga gets to us, as though it were reality.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  7. #87
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    It's really funny how this Manga gets to us, as though it were reality.
    But reality isn't anything more than an illusion you can't get out off.

    A true believer can't be born out of manipulation, but of pure will. Obito believes that MEP is the only way to save this world, but his life taught him that to achieve something, you must sacrifice something as well. Just as Madara said, your friend was saved, in turn for you getting hurt in his place. All Obito did up until now, was a necessary sacrifice in order to bring the perfect world.



  8. #88
    Senior Member Inderos's Avatar
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    If Madara really is Obito's grandfather, like some people speculate, is it really that far-fetched of an idea that he was manipulated? Madara had been an opponent to the Will of Fire for at least a century, it would be a real embarrassment to the Uchiha if he couldn't indoctrinate his own grandson. My guess is that as Tobi and Orochimbaru manipulated Sasuke in his search for power, Madara manipulated Tobi. I think Madara might have used Tsukiyomi to show Obito tragic events from the past that convinced him that being Hokage was not enough to fix the shinobi world. Madara may have had some dirt on one of the Hokage that changed Obito's perception of the founders of Konoha. I'm sure the death of Rin is involved in there too, I just don't think that's the whole story. Madara might have shown Obito one of his memories in which one of the Hokage sold out their comrades or left them behind to die, ect. This might have caused a weakening of his resolve, but not the destruction of it, so Madara had to manipulate Rin's death to finally get Obito to see things his way.

  9. #89
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inderos View Post
    If Madara really is Obito's grandfather, like some people speculate, is it really that far-fetched of an idea that he was manipulated? Madara had been an opponent to the Will of Fire for at least a century, it would be a real embarrassment to the Uchiha if he couldn't indoctrinate his own grandson. My guess is that as Tobi and Orochimbaru manipulated Sasuke in his search for power, Madara manipulated Tobi. I think Madara might have used Tsukiyomi to show Obito tragic events from the past that convinced him that being Hokage was not enough to fix the shinobi world. Madara may have had some dirt on one of the Hokage that changed Obito's perception of the founders of Konoha. I'm sure the death of Rin is involved in there too, I just don't think that's the whole story. Madara might have shown Obito one of his memories in which one of the Hokage sold out their comrades or left them behind to die, ect. This might have caused a weakening of his resolve, but not the destruction of it, so Madara had to manipulate Rin's death to finally get Obito to see things his way.
    That's mostly in line with what some of the readers think. I forgot itachi showed sasuke his memories through genjutsu, nice call saying madara did something similar with obito and thereby exposing a problematic past of a hokage. Hashirama and tobirama were not proactively portrayed as saints but were at times associated with the will of fire and other "good guy" ideals. Edo tensei is why many believe tobirama/nidaime had questionable dealings or a shady past. How fitting, if true, madara's edo state, obito's transformation, and history of tobirama all connected.

    Lets hope the next set of flashbacks eschew the drab underground setting of madara's lair and take us to era when konaha was in its infancy and madara was engaged in bitter rivalry with hashirama. I suppose at least rin's series of flashbacks will come first, which i feel should have been done already with how some elements were stretched too long and wasted prime storytelling space.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  10. #90
    Senior Member Kenny Bones's Avatar
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    New chapter's out

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