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  1. #1
    Katana swinging nutcase ChaosRising's Avatar
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    Shinigami Vizard Arrancar link

    This whole time I have been reading and watching Bleach I have wondered exactly how much these two have in common. What brought this issue into focus started when Urahara forced Ichigo to return to being a Shinigami. I thought it was a bit significant that he put Ichigo into a position where he was in the process of turning into a hollow before being guided to his zanpakuto by old man Zangetsu. I wondered why finding his zanpakuto was so important.

    Later when fighting (and loosing to) Kenpachi (old man) Zangetsu brought him back to his world to test his resolve and decide if he was worthy of wielding him and forcing him to confront the Hollow inside him. It wasn't so much the struggle against the hollow that held so much significance to my thinking it was the conversation between the old man and the Hollow after Ichigo returned to continue his fight with Kenpachi.

    These questions only became more focused when the Hollow took over during Ichigo's fight with Byakuya. Not to mention Byakuya's willingness to overlook and not question the transformation. That just made me wonder how much he understood what actually happened with Ichigo. It was also the point where I began to question the significance of the bead like piece Byakuya wears in his hair.

    My questions began to take the form of suspicions as to the meanings of these links as the latest (anime) arc began to unfold, namely with the contact of the Vizard. When Ichigo sought out the Vizard and was forced to again confront his inner Hollow, it was the Hollow's declaration that he was Zangetsu that really got the wheels turning. The turning became a blur of mental motion after the explanation from the Arrancar that the release of their zanpakuto unseal the bulk of their powers as well as their completed forms.

    So where am I going with this, right?

    Ok, here is my hypothesis. I don't think there is much difference between Shinigami, Arrancar, or Vizard. I think it is all in how they channel and seal the power of the Hollow inside each of them. Shinigami compress and seal their inner Hollows within their zanpakto, yet never really capitalize on the power that they have sealed. Mostly because of a lack of understanding of where their zanpakto draw their power from.

    Arrancar have a better understanding, but still fall short of the potential of said power. However this could probably be due to their having started out as Hollows in the first place. Vizard seem to understand that by drawing on the power of their inner Hollow increases their strength and ability significantly. However I haven't seen them draw from the power of their zanpakto like Ichigo did during his fight with Kenpachi.

    It was Ichigo's inner Hollows closing statement in episode 125 that if Ichigo really wanted to control his power, not to die before he showed up again that really got me thinking. It brought me back to the 3 stages of Byakuya's bankai. How come, I wondered no other Shinigami had more that one stage of their bankai? Is that thing Byakuya wears in his hair actually some remnant of a hollows mask? Is he actually (however unknowingly) also a Vizard?

    Anyways this is the direction my thoughts are going. I would be curious to see what the rest of you can add to this thought line. So I guess we'll see now that I have raised this idea up the flag pole, who salutes it and who shoots at it.


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  2. #2
    Veteran Member gdupninja's Avatar
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    Byakuya wears the standard captain uniform along with a white headpiece called a kenseikan (symbolizing his noble rank as the head of the Kuchiki family)

    from wikipedia

  3. #3
    †gangsta† kryu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdupninja View Post
    Byakuya wears the standard captain uniform along with a white headpiece called a kenseikan (symbolizing his noble rank as the head of the Kuchiki family)

    from wikipedia
    pwned.lol.gtfo.

  4. #4
    Retired Binktopian Mass Zero's Avatar
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    You've come together with a very interesting hypothesis, but I honestly don't think Arrancar suffer from an "inner Hollow." Why? Because they were Hollows. Why were they Hollows? Because their human souls got overtaken by darkness, grief, sorrow, bitterness and the like. Yes, human. Why would humans have an inner Hollow?

  5. #5
    Veteran Member gdupninja's Avatar
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    and u are corrrectttttt

  6. #6
    †gangsta† kryu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdupninja View Post
    and u are corrrectttttt
    ya, i was speaking to the threadstarter btw.

    you just pwned him.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member gdupninja's Avatar
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    i like that little kenshin

  8. #8
    Katana swinging nutcase ChaosRising's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mass Zero View Post
    You've come together with a very interesting hypothesis, but I honestly don't think Arrancar suffer from an "inner Hollow." Why? Because they were Hollows. Why were they Hollows? Because their human souls got overtaken by darkness, grief, sorrow, bitterness and the like. Yes, human. Why would humans have an inner Hollow?
    I never said that Arrancar had an inner hollow to suffer from. Much the reason that I pointed out that their Zampakto are used by them to seal and compress their own powers and forms. Thus when released Arrancar zampakto vanish and they (the Arrancar) change form physically.

    It's been my impression from the series that every soul has a hollow within it. They are just waiting to be released either by the reasons you mention, or being devoured by a Hollow, or in the case of Ichigo (for instance) being pushed to the brink of transforming forcefully.

    My point you seem to be focusing on, yet completely missing is that in the case of Shinigami they unknowingly focus and compress their "Inner Hollow" into the form of a zampakto. Arrancar compress a large portion of their spirit energy (since they are already hollows and thus have no "inner hollow" just an outer one. Maybe they have inner humans instead ;-P) into their zampakto and reabsorb it when they release them. Vizard take it one step further by apparently splitting the spirit energy of their inner hollow between their masks and (apparently) their zampakto.

    One of my reasons for this line of logic is Ichigo's bankai, his zampakto's power is compressed into Ichigo and his speed and strength magnify. His zampakto grows smaller in size rather than taking on any new forms or abilities. In short it's nothing like any other Shinigami's bankai (at least any we have seen) and is closer to the release of an Arrancar's zampakto than a shinigami's.

    Since I am yet to see any other Vizard's bankai, I can't make a comparison to theirs. I can only base my hypnosis on what I have seen and read.

    About my Lil' Kenshin, thanx I've had him forever since I am a die hard Kenshin fan.


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  9. #9
    I am not sure I totally understand where you are going, but I'll jump in and give my 2 cents. I think you are assuming that all zanpaktu are really manifestations of hollows. For what we know, Ichigo is the only one who's zanpaktu is in the form of a hollow. After all, one's zanpaktu is also a manifestation of one's reiatsu; therefore, if Ichigo's power is hollow nature then so would his zanpaktu. The only other zanpaktu that we "see" is zabimaru (the baboon king) and he doesn't really look like a hollow; although he is a strange looking fella. I am too lazy, but remember HOW Ichigo became a shinigami...I don't think many others took that road.

    I think Byakuya's face during the hollow Ichigo transformation is of surprise and not acceptance. Which brings me to my next point. We see a second Bankai form from Renji against Aizen; therefore, it is safe to assume that other captains (like Hits) have other forms in which their Bankai can assume.

    Anyhow, good luck with your hypothesis. I think it is a good way of examining Ichigo's/Vizard's power source but necessarily the relation between Shinigami and Hollows. I will admit there is a striking similarity between the Gotei 13 and Espada though, but I think that is a convo for another day.


  10. #10
    Veteran Member gdupninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky View Post
    I am not sure I totally understand where you are going, but I'll jump in and give my 2 cents. I think you are assuming that all zanpaktu are really manifestations of hollows. For what we know, Ichigo is the only one who's zanpaktu is in the form of a hollow. After all, one's zanpaktu is also a manifestation of one's reiatsu; therefore, if Ichigo's power is hollow nature then so would his zanpaktu. The only other zanpaktu that we "see" is zabimaru (the baboon king) and he doesn't really look like a hollow; although he is a strange looking fella. I am too lazy, but remember HOW Ichigo became a shinigami...I don't think many others took that road.

    I think Byakuya's face during the hollow Ichigo transformation is of surprise and not acceptance. Which brings me to my next point. We see a second Bankai form from Renji against Aizen; therefore, it is safe to assume that other captains (like Hits) have other forms in which their Bankai can assume.

    Anyhow, good luck with your hypothesis. I think it is a good way of examining Ichigo's/Vizard's power source but necessarily the relation between Shinigami and Hollows. I will admit there is a striking similarity between the Gotei 13 and Espada though, but I think that is a convo for another day.

    yes quite a few bankais have more than 1 form (byakuya )
    tousens 1st release has 2 forms

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