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  1. #41
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Time for a brag:

    I was right! Kishi is more pictographic and cleverly communicative visually. The last sequence in kakashi gaiden contextually SEEMS like kakashi's voice in the darkness, waking up from his first fight using sharingan BUT they were obito's words in the darkness and kishi's drawn panels all followed a technical logic for discerning it correctly, he just allowed people to only be aware of the context in the story to assume it was kakashi.

    So, IM taking extra credit and Brownie points.

    Who says kabuto's trump card failed? It still has MUCH room to play! Madara is not revived the way he needs, that in itself us significant and the fact kabuto had no intention of releasing edo tensei anytime soon means things might still be according to his plan, whatever it is.

    Obito is already showing signs of displeasure at madara's existence.

    Kishi's drawing logic and situational mirror-

    I also said madara or izuna was obito's father or grandfather. Its extremely likely now since obito's flashback is a situational mirror to kakashi's own steps between this world and the next. The pieces must match because obito's flashback in the chapter referenced his words linking him conceptually to kakashi. The pieces must match so the old uchiha in obito's flashback will without a doubt be immediate blood relation. That special realm seems to link family or relationally important people. BTW, IM talking about when kakashi met his dad.


    But the big question this chapter asks is huge yet totally understated...

    I want everyone to think about it and see what everyone comes up with because there is so little to go by in the way of clues and signs, anyway..

    Madara says,"did you start midway? It's you, you must have some plan... what happened to nagato... my revival... ill get the 8 and 9 tails.. WE ARE STILL IN/ON TIME (HAVE TIME)."

    I paraphrased but WHAT IS THE TIMING THEY ARE DEPENDENT UPON? there is definitely something that will occur and as that event begins madara, as well as obito, know they have to have all their ducks in a row or risk everything being for nothing or a huge setback. WTF is their timing following, especially to force obito's rush job?

    Special state of the moon? Will the moon be close enough to get the rest of the 10 tails stuff but not again for years?

    The only other clues are the obsession with destiny and preordained conflicts between the lineage of the two sons.
    Last edited by knife eater; 09-11-2012 at 05:49 PM.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Temperjoke's Avatar
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    Something I just thought of, in Itachi's flashback, that couldn't have been the real Madara, given that Madara's hair was gray.

  3. #43
    Senior Member rinnebadass's Avatar
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    pure awesomeness.

  4. #44
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    - It's kinda dumb that Tsunade is having Katsuyu bring her the other Kages while ignoring her missing lower-half... I mean, Katsuyu can split into hundreds of slugs and easily accomplish both just fine. Tsunade was able to use her slugs to heal almost all of Konoha in the Invasion of Pain arc... I feel like her "honorable sacrifice" is a bit contrived in this case. It seems like a pointless gesture that overlooks obvious potential solutions.

    - We finally get answers to the Madara/Obito connection... seeing "Old man Madara" at least gives us a way better perspective on Madara's condition/age when he died. He's shown with a regular Sharingan, so it's possible that he'd already given his Rinnegan to Nagato at that point. I believe his old age and white hair are likely legitimate, not results of overusing the Rinnegan (as in Nagato's case).

    - I had hopes when Madara stated that the Naruto in front of them was a clone, but the real Naruto was shown afterwards...

    - It's impressive that Madara's fan can reflect a MiniBijuudama, but we already knew it had that power when it reflected Naruto's smaller Rasengan. This merely confirms that it was a Jutsu at work, not just sturdy material. The fan seems like a miniature, offensive-natured Yata Mirror.

    - It's been clear for a while that Obito has been moving forward with things with no intention of reviving the real Madara... I wonder what'll happen when Madara finds out. He seems to trust Obito, but Obito is strangely guarded around Madara.

    - I loved Madara's "...what's with everyone?" when he heard about Nagato's betrayal.

    - I wonder if Kabuto will save Tsunade / help the Kages with his medical ninjutsu? I feel like there's some task left to him, which is why Itachi left him alive... and Itachi's lesson was for Kabuto to focus on his own, true strengths and not pretend to be someone else. Kabuto was always a medical ninja.
    Last edited by Rlinfamous; 09-11-2012 at 06:35 PM.

  5. #45
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rlinfamous View Post
    - It's kinda dumb that Tsunade is having Katsuyu bring her the other Kages while ignoring her missing lower-half... I mean, Katsuyu can split into hundreds of slugs and easily accomplish both just fine. Tsunade was able to use her slugs to heal almost all of Konoha in the Invasion of Pain arc... I feel like her "honorable sacrifice" is a bit contrived in this case. It seems like a pointless gesture that overlooks obvious potential solutions.

    - We finally get answers to the Madara/Obito connection... seeing "Old man Madara" at least gives us a way better perspective on Madara's condition/age when he died. He's shown with a regular Sharingan, so it's possible that he'd already given his Rinnegan to Nagato at that point. I believe his old age and white hair are likely legitimate, not results of overusing the Rinnegan (as in Nagato's case).

    - I had hopes when Madara stated that the Naruto in front of them was a clone, but the real Naruto was shown afterwards...

    - It's impressive that Madara's fan can reflect a MiniBijuudama, but we already knew it had that power when it reflected Naruto's smaller Rasengan. This merely confirms that it was a Jutsu at work, not just sturdy material. The fan seems like a miniature, offensive-natured Yata Mirror.

    - It's been clear for a while that Obito has been moving forward with things with no intention of reviving the real Madara... I wonder what'll happen when Madara finds out. He seems to trust Obito, but Obito is strangely guarded around Madara.

    - I loved Madara's "...what's with everyone?" when he heard about Nagato's betrayal.
    I think tsunade realizes that the other kages are in need of nothing short of full on resurrection; something which a dispersal of split katsuyas are not capable. Tsunade is alive only for the reason if her senju related ability of vitality and cell regeneration.. the kages appear full on dead.

    IM not convinced obito abandoned the original plan of reviving madara. After all, we don't know when madara said was "the right timing".

    Kabuto reviving madara as edo might have been his trump card simply to prevent rinnegan tensei revival. Madara is still acting exactly the same as if itachi never got involved. Kabuto let madara do as he pleased and he had no intention of releasing edo tensei. What has changed as far as that goes for kabuto and madara? His trump card hadn't been shown to be a failure yet even if binding conditions changed.

    Orochimaru and kabuto were opposed to akatsuki and thru true aims. Kabuto might have actually really set madara and obito back by denying madara his preferred state if resurrection. Lets see what madara is missing out on not having what he wanted.

    What's best is that obito is still old flunky yet well meaning obito. He bungled hus minato fight and kyubi capture. Bungled with 3 tails, and now madara is almost chastising him outright for not getting their plan right, LOL! His excuse for being late to the next akatsuki meeting will be he had to help an old man pick up his lost valuables!
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Hmmmm, both of them, the one who Kisame met and the one that Itachi met had partially uncovered arms, which didn't look like ones that would belong to an old man... the one that Kisame met, was standing in the shadow, so he actually could have a gray hair, but then, he would need to posses Hashirama/Zetsu hands... he simply couldn't look that much younger, unless something happened...

    ...Obito... is he the only one, or simply the latest one ? If he is only the latest one, then he must have replaced the Black Zetsu then, another Uchiha which power to manipulate or even fully control minds, that allowed to "inspire" Yahiko and control the 4th Mizukage.



  7. #47
    Elder Brother EliteKage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Temperjoke View Post
    Something I just thought of, in Itachi's flashback, that couldn't have been the real Madara, given that Madara's hair was gray.
    It was already Tobi by that time. Madara died when Nagato was a kid, and by the uchiha massacre Nagato was a fully grown man.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Maximo's Avatar
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    The way I see, like most of you guys, is that Obito has his own agenda in Madaras plan. I guess Obito was kind of hoping that he would take Madaras place as the Juubi jinchuuriki and caster of the Mugen Tsukyomi. Sooner or later those two will have a conflict in my opinion. Obito might even backstab Madara, for him its a rather simple task anyway. All Obito has to do is touch Madara and warp him away into another dimension and he wins, theres no way Madara can go back. Well, I guess we just have to wait and see what happens.

    I still think Gai will open his last gate, he and Kakashi are both pretty much exhausted so theres no other way. Naruto and Bee against Madara is gonna be the main show. Im very much pumped up for that one .. but before that, we will get some answers on Obitos history.
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  9. #49
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximo View Post
    The way I see, like most of you guys, is that Obito has his own agenda in Madaras plan. I guess Obito was kind of hoping that he would take Madaras place as the Juubi jinchuuriki and caster of the Mugen Tsukyomi. Sooner or later those two will have a conflict in my opinion. Obito might even backstab Madara, for him its a rather simple task anyway. All Obito has to do is touch Madara and warp him away into another dimension and he wins, theres no way Madara can go back. Well, I guess we just have to wait and see what happens.

    I still think Gai will open his last gate, he and Kakashi are both pretty much exhausted so theres no other way. Naruto and Bee against Madara is gonna be the main show. Im very much pumped up for that one .. but before that, we will get some answers on Obitos history.
    The thing is, I'm not so sure. It really depends on the summoning jutsu's space-time potential. Theoretically, he could use the same trick to get away from there as Sasuke used to get away from explosion, well at least he would end up were those summoning creatures live, but all of them exist on the same earth, on the same plane of existence as humans. Still, for Obito to be so confident in that ability, it should be impossible, but is it truly ? Then again that place would have been like an eternal prison, until he disable the ET that is, unless he no longer can, which would have been strange seeing as he is currently the master of his own ET.

    I guess, I wouldn't mind if this chapter was presented last weak. Kishi is stretching the story at this part a little, but, for many people (from what I have seen) Tobi's identity was one of the most important parts of the story, so is he doing that because he wants readers to concentrate on it, or does he have other motives ?

    Next week, we jump to Sasuke, buhahahaa, man this could induce more hate than when Byakuya was supposedly killed in Bleach... only to survive until the next chapter where he was splattered on the wall .



  10. #50
    Senior Member Shock's Avatar
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    watching Madara makes me feel so helpless, and its not even real either lol. I hope Kakashi figures something out in the end to help Naruto exploit a weakness, or even bring Kabuto back to somehow break the ET jutsu or regain control... Just for the love of god not Obito suddenly realizing the errors of his ways and in a last ditch effort uses his life to give Naruto an opening to kill them both -_-
    A pie in the sky?

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