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  1. #81
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackZetsu View Post
    Okay, so, I finally have the time to do this.
    This is why I made this account in the first place.

    Black Zetsu is the key. The key to everything. He fuses with white zetsu perfectly. He has to be either a) an imperfectly revived Izuna, or b) the older brother of the sage's sons.

    His body could theoretically be the juubi host. since he has the body and spiritual life force to maintain rennegan without dying/becoming old and delapidated. He's gonna be a game changer. Whatch me!
    Black Zetsu is indeed a mystery, but I have seen nothing as yet that indicates that he is Izuna or the Sages older son. Zetsu has so far only been an Obeidient Servant to Tobi.

    As far as we know Zetsu is a Half Plant/Humanoid creature that carries Hashirama's DNA. To me he is just a tool created by Madara for the purpose of infusing Hashirama's cells, and/or for providing spare body parts that are infused with Hashirama's cells.

    I expect that Zetsu's role will be to produce and Maintain an Undying Body for Madara to be Reborn Into, via Rinne Tensei. As we have seen, Madara is not too thrilled with his Edo Tensei situation, he had his own plans, which probably involve the Soulless Hashirama body in Tobi's underground HQ.

    Zetsu may have been the Key to creating that Body.

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  2. #82
    首はねスレイマン Saiges's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Black Zetsu is indeed a mystery, but I have seen nothing as yet that indicates that he is Izuna or the Sages older son..
    He can't be Izuna, but the older son is an option. Have you noticed 3 dots on his forehead? It can indicate 3 paths :o
    Identifying itachi's Totsuka sword and Yata's mirror is no small feat. He's too smart for a plant


    Anyone else noticed Madara doubting Obito's intensions? Adding Nagato's betrayal he said "what's with everyone...".
    __________________________________________


  3. #83
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saiges View Post
    He can't be Izuna, but the older son is an option. Have you noticed 3 dots on his forehead? It can indicate 3 paths :o
    Identifying itachi's Totsuka sword and Yata's mirror is no small feat. He's too smart for a plant


    Anyone else noticed Madara doubting Obito's intensions? Adding Nagato's betrayal he said "what's with everyone...".
    BUT Why the Sages Elder son. Both Zetsus have a closer affinity to Hashirama via Mokuton, and Hashirama has a closer affinity to the Younger Son.

    I am not saying that the Zetsus Black or white are either son of the Sage, I am saying that The Elder Son idea seems like a Wild Leap in Logic.

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  4. #84
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    BUT Why the Sages Elder son. Both Zetsus have a closer affinity to Hashirama via Mokuton, and Hashirama has a closer affinity to the Younger Son.

    I am not saying that the Zetsus Black or white are either son of the Sage, I am saying that The Elder Son idea seems like a Wild Leap in Logic.
    To add to this.. there is no flashback or information of zetsu existing prior to obito's birth. He zetsu's face and hair look identical to obito's face and hair. What shreds of personality that have actually been shown are too subdued and muted in awareness to be a weighty character like a son of the 6 paths.

    Flip side is that since so little is known about zetsu; there is the greatest potential and room to for kishi to use that big hole of mystery and unknowns to a tremendous and unforeseen twist to the story as it draws closer to it's end. A bombshell if you will. Will zetsu be final villain material?

    The interactions and conversation between the black and white zetsus reflects a relationship of brothers. One young and ignorant and one older, wiser, and protective. Make of that what you will.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  5. #85
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    Obito's transformation is not because of rin, tobi us not using hate. Obito desires a world where rin's don't die and kakashi's don't fail their promise. Obito, by the panels if flashbacks we see in this chapter, is a young Guy experiencing severe physical trauma and awakening in the presence of none other than madara uchiha. We can assume then that madara provided a context from that point onward in which obito could ascribe his own suffering, his loss of his body (most of it), the loss of his friends, the promise he felt break, and more importantly, the context of konaha and uchiha history related to obito by madara, who hates and wants revenge on both. Obito's lectures to sasuke is obviously a parroting of his own catechism from madara years before. It goes to show you that obito's transformation was never a simple one and there is evidence in his character even now that he is uncertain of madara's ideology. Obito built his sincerity on madara's portrayal of the world and specifically konaha and the uchiha. Obito is not evil nor is he really a villain; rin and kakashi were mere first ripples in his sea of madara illuminated motivation.

    Obito will stand against madara eventually.
    This might be correct but its not the conclusion I wanted for Tobi I really wanted him to be a true villain not a best friend turned villain who will change back after being hugged. That's why I was hoping for Izuna cause so far Tobi has been a skilled manipulator working from the darkness the fact that he himself is being manipulated makes everything hes done seem weak and watered down.


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  6. #86
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by POW View Post
    This might be correct but its not the conclusion I wanted for Tobi I really wanted him to be a true villain not a best friend turned villain who will change back after being hugged. That's why I was hoping for Izuna cause so far Tobi has been a skilled manipulator working from the darkness the fact that he himself is being manipulated makes everything hes done seem weak and watered down.
    The problem i see is that people are giving too much credit to tobi as the manipulator when in fact it was madara who set the groundwork and conducted most of the manipulation. Tobi only really manipulated sasuke and even there he failed, sasuke thinks he is using tobi. Tobi's role is to be a farce, to carry out his tasks while wearing the visage of madara. Tobi only really influenced shinobi affairs when he parroted madara's own words or information. Very little, if anything at all, in the way of true manipulation was initiated or carried out by tobi. What exactly did he do that we can say for certain wasn't madara? We have a snag with the mizukage's face and well, that's about the only link to tobi orchestrating in the shadows and even then.. madara was the initializer.

    Tobi was not a mastermind, he did no grand scale scheming of his own and the influence of akatsuki on global affairs was by virtue of a dupe and the efforts of other villains. The manipulations were by merits of madara himself and the "POWER OF MADARA AS A NAME".

    Again, tobi is now revealed to be what i characterize as a bungling farce that is beginning to operate with self uncertainty. He never was the skillful manipulator but was instead madaras tool for manipulation through hus name and ideology.

    Edit: afterthought with characterizations - obito is not a villain in the absolute antagonistic sense. He also is not a pawn. Since shikamaru and asuma likened themselves to shoji pieces based upon the roles they saw themselves in then we can apply to obito.

    He is a Bishop, he serves somewhat dutifully a bigger cause while maintaining an effective strength. IM a chess player and i always seek to develop a fianchetto early. Obito as the Bishop fits beautifully as his function in relationship to madara is exactly like the Bishop in fianchetto in early game. Nagato was the Knight that was taken early as is the knights function in this formation. The purpose is to Knight and Bishop as a means to guard the center (madara) and allow a greater stage elsewhere to take hold. Obito does exatlctly this by masquerade as madara and drawing the attention of those opposed.

    The simplest personification of the Bishop, however, are the angles. Obito has angles that will surprise us because angles can either be short or deep and are hard to always see on the chess board even though they are very simple. The Bishop is strong, obito is Bishop strong, threatening while having his own volition yet subject to a higher piece. Not truly a villain and in more vulnerable than the knights and rooks because of a critical weakness.
    Last edited by knife eater; 09-12-2012 at 07:29 PM.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  7. #87
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by POW View Post
    This might be correct but its not the conclusion I wanted for Tobi I really wanted him to be a true villain not a best friend turned villain who will change back after being hugged. That's why I was hoping for Izuna cause so far Tobi has been a skilled manipulator working from the darkness the fact that he himself is being manipulated makes everything hes done seem weak and watered down.
    I too POW.

    Frankly I don't much like the ambiguous villain Motif that's rampant in Naruto.

    We have the Kyuubi who was characterized as a demonic fox, then a Mass of hatred, now he's a tame fox anew best friends with Naruto.
    Itachi was an evil B@$t@&d who killed his clan, now he was just being manipulated by Danzo.
    Orochimaru was the guy we all loved to hate, now his latest incarnation is a sympathetic boss crook.
    Tobi came along, Claimed to be Madara, seemed to be Madara, now he was only a Poor Little idealistic Uchiha boy Obito who on the verge of death, was just being used. I really wanted Obito to go to his grave never having sullied that innocence and purity of heart, but now it seems no Uchiha will have ever had a pure heart that went untainted.

    How bad do you have to behave to become really bad in Naruto? It doesn't matter how many people you kill or lives you ruin, you just have to die correctly and BAM! all is forgiven, REDEMPTION TIME!

    Seems that the only bad guy in this series is going to be MADARA and he alone....Unless if we find out that Hashirama was really behind it all. Maybe Kishi will arrange for Hashirama's cells to have infested Madara's brain, and taken him over, so that while everyone thinks Hashirama is dead and Madara is the evil guy, it was Hashirama's Cells all along, they infested Madara's brain right from the first time they fought via his Olfactory organs in an aerosolized pollen form.

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    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  8. #88
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
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    - Still somewhat disappointing considering the 4th Hokage died to ensure Naruto would have Kyuubi power necessary to defeat the masked man. Then the masked man turns out to be this....

    - Unless the real lesson to be learned was not the Kyuubi power but conquering hatred which would be the real power to defeat Tobi.




    Well at least one things certain we now have a villain for every generation!


    Hashriama - Madara

    Sarutobi - Danzou

    Jiraiya - Orochimaru

    Minato - Nagato

    Kakashi - Obito/Tobi

    Naruto - Sasuke




    Naruto better watch his students one is bound to be evil


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  9. #89
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    How bad do you have to behave to become really bad in Naruto? It doesn't matter how many people you kill or lives you ruin, you just have to die correctly and BAM! all is forgiven, REDEMPTION TIME!

    Seems that the only bad guy in this series is going to be MADARA and he alone....Unless if we find out that Hashirama was really behind it all. Maybe Kishi will arrange for Hashirama's cells to have infested Madara's brain, and taken him over, so that while everyone thinks Hashirama is dead and Madara is the evil guy, it was Hashirama's Cells all along, they infested Madara's brain right from the first time they fought via his Olfactory organs in an aerosolized pollen form.
    I think there is a misunderstanding Paul, they are Shinobi and thus, they are not and cannot be, good. So6p created Ninjutsu and a type of human that uses it, but it's the rest of the humans that created the stereotypical ninja, one who kills even kids, his kinsmen, steals info and betrays, while always lurking in darkness. There are 2 meanings of Ninja clashing within Naruto. Of course the main character is of the first type, just like So6p, he simply utilizes ninjutsu, but he doesn't embrace the image that was later created on, rather he exist to completely destroy it.

    As Minato said, they are a family of ninja, they are not good and thus they cannot have a long lasting happiness.

    Quote Originally Posted by POW View Post
    Naruto better watch his students one is bound to be evil
    Oh come on, before Nartuo's students, there is one more generation worth mentioning, Konohamaru's. Looks like the Glasses boy is going to be the future bad old villain .



  10. #90
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post

    Oh come on, before Nartuo's students, there is one more generation worth mentioning, Konohamaru's. Looks like the Glasses boy is going to be the future bad old villain .

    Konohamru is part of the same generation as Naruto more or less even though hes a bit younger.

    That boy with glasses is named Udon probably the grandson of the village counselor Homura Mitokado.

    Which means he might develop a shitty personality same as his grandad.


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