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  1. #91
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by POW View Post
    Konohamru is part of the same generation as Naruto more or less even though hes a bit younger.

    That boy with glasses is named Udon probably the grandson of the village counselor Homura Mitokado.

    Which means he might develop a shitty personality same as his grandad.
    So you are separating generations by number of wars only ?



  2. #92
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
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    Well Yamato is 26 and Kakashi is 30 but they are more or less the same generation.

    There are lots of other shinobi who are slightly older or younger but generally those less than 8 years of age gap are same generation.


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  3. #93
    Appearance of Darkness Aga bomBa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by POW View Post
    This might be correct but its not the conclusion I wanted for Tobi I really wanted him to be a true villain not a best friend turned villain who will change back after being hugged. That's why I was hoping for Izuna cause so far Tobi has been a skilled manipulator working from the darkness the fact that he himself is being manipulated makes everything hes done seem weak and watered down.
    Thank You.. the one I bolded ^^^, was exactly my reasons for my frustation from 2 weeks after reading the " big " reveal.

    - On top of that POW: the reasoning, his " motive " is also so weak.. about Rin!

    It's not the point that Madara Uchiha created the manipulation field while Tobi executing his master plan, it's that TOBI is doing this for exactly 5 years NOW, and his reveal wasa very weak!! Tobi, the great manipulator being manipulated and then MANIPULATES the shinobi world behind the scenes for the last decades, creates Akatsuki of top tier S-class shinobi's with the most badass shinobi's ever been shown in Naruto Manga.. and then we came too learn that he's brainwashed - doing this because he suffered for a girl ( a freakin girl :S ).

    TOBI needed to be a VILLAIN, true VILLAIN material.. let me tell you guys that TOBI is exactly what HAKU was for ZABUZA, but with a " No-One " personality. Madara created two tools; 1. Zetzu being a tool as Tobi's body parts, life-force and 2. Obito.

    As I've said in my previous post; Tobi had his own plans after he had learned that Nagato wasted his Rinne Tensei. Tobi probably didn't wanted to revive Madara anymore and secretely hoped that Madara Uchiha would've disapeared with the other Edo- Tensei bodies.
    Madara Uchiha isn't satisfied with being revived through Edo Tensei, he had his own plans.. Madara was told that Kabuto was Tobi's assisstent and the question is right now: Does Madara knows that Tobi didn't wanted to revive him anymore, or not??

    Seriously; Madara needs to kill Obito.. Madara Uchiha is the REAL VILLAIN and believe me guys; he won't be talked over by Naruto's talk no-jutsu. Madara is the only TRUE EVIL out there and he needs to be Naruto's first KILL in Naruto Manga. Now, when I think about it.. did Madara made a genjutsu movie where he showed how RIN died, or did he witnessed it by himself from the shadows?? He had to hide his identity, so he couldn't help her and was hoping that Kakashi would do that?

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Seems that the only bad guy in this series is going to be MADARA and he alone....Unless if we find out that Hashirama was really behind it all. Maybe Kishi will arrange for Hashirama's cells to have infested Madara's brain, and taken him over, so that while everyone thinks Hashirama is dead and Madara is the evil guy, it was Hashirama's Cells all along, they infested Madara's brain right from the first time they fought via his Olfactory organs in an aerosolized pollen form.
    I would LOVE this outcome very much hahaha.. damn; WHAT IF that's the true story that Sasuke is gonna hear from the " man " who knows everything. and paul: Danzou manipulated Itachi, uhh what?
    ... You're Dead 2 Me Now ...

  4. #94
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aga bomBa View Post

    I would LOVE this outcome very much hahaha.. damn; WHAT IF that's the true story that Sasuke is gonna hear from the " man " who knows everything. and paul: Danzou manipulated Itachi, uhh what?
    I see this scene as the final act of manipulation by Danzou. He knew what buttons to push to make Itachi act. A lot of talk about Sasuke, and undermining the desire of Sandaime to seek a peaceful settlement, all the while Danzou is Strengthening his own power and preparing to collect Sharingans for his right arm.
    Spoiler!
    Last edited by paulbee; 09-13-2012 at 02:13 AM.

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  5. #95
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aga bomBa View Post
    Thank You.. the one I bolded ^^^, was exactly my reasons for my frustation from 2 weeks after reading the " big " reveal.

    - On top of that POW: the reasoning, his " motive " is also so weak.. about Rin!

    It's not the point that Madara Uchiha created the manipulation field while Tobi executing his master plan, it's that TOBI is doing this for exactly 5 years NOW, and his reveal wasa very weak!! Tobi, the great manipulator being manipulated and then MANIPULATES the shinobi world behind the scenes for the last decades, creates Akatsuki of top tier S-class shinobi's with the most badass shinobi's ever been shown in Naruto Manga.. and then we came too learn that he's brainwashed - doing this because he suffered for a girl ( a freakin girl :S ).

    TOBI needed to be a VILLAIN, true VILLAIN material.. let me tell you guys that TOBI is exactly what HAKU was for ZABUZA, but with a " No-One " personality. Madara created two tools; 1. Zetzu being a tool as Tobi's body parts, life-force and 2. Obito.

    As I've said in my previous post; Tobi had his own plans after he had learned that Nagato wasted his Rinne Tensei. Tobi probably didn't wanted to revive Madara anymore and secretely hoped that Madara Uchiha would've disapeared with the other Edo- Tensei bodies.
    Madara Uchiha isn't satisfied with being revived through Edo Tensei, he had his own plans.. Madara was told that Kabuto was Tobi's assisstent and the question is right now: Does Madara knows that Tobi didn't wanted to revive him anymore, or not??

    Seriously; Madara needs to kill Obito.. Madara Uchiha is the REAL VILLAIN and believe me guys; he won't be talked over by Naruto's talk no-jutsu. Madara is the only TRUE EVIL out there and he needs to be Naruto's first KILL in Naruto Manga. Now, when I think about it.. did Madara made a genjutsu movie where he showed how RIN died, or did he witnessed it by himself from the shadows?? He had to hide his identity, so he couldn't help her and was hoping that Kakashi would do that?



    I would LOVE this outcome very much hahaha.. damn; WHAT IF that's the true story that Sasuke is gonna hear from the " man " who knows everything. and paul: Danzou manipulated Itachi, uhh what?
    I'm not sure how Izuna being manipulated instead of Obito would change much, rather the degree of emotional shock from most characters would come close to zero and here we have Kakashi totally dispirited... I guess it's time that his bloodline kicked-in, transformed his MS into a new blue eyed doujutsu with would make his Raikiri white and work like pointblank black hole reaper...

    It's not like Madara's motive is strong... actually, does he even have a motive to abandon the path of power-over-all ? The only reason his goals weren't fulfilled is because he didn't have enough power, so why is he so desperately clinging to MEP as well anyway ? From what I understood, MEP would only be desired by those that longed true peace, which in reality could not be achieved, thus making it possible only in a dream-illusionary-like world. Well a condition of loosing hope is needed, otherwise many other characters like Itachi, Shisui would help in it as well.

    You say manipulated, then mention that Tobi has his own agenda. Decide already, is he manipulated, or are they using each other to fulfill their own goals, similar like Kabuto x Tobi used each other ? From the looks of it, Obito is in control now and it's Madara who is guessing what he changed in the plan... well, seeing as Madara called it "our plan", means probably, basing on his arrogant behavior, that he is not the creator of the plan and only participates in it. An arrogant person like Madara would never give credits to someone else, unless that other persons input is big, or even bigger than Madara's.

    No one is born as evil. Earth is a plane of existence between heaven and hell, thus the color of humans is gray and it's shades. The only question is what made you come closer to black or white ?



  6. #96
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    I Would have preferred a Duo of true Villains. Izuna the faithful Younger brother working to revive his Senior, in order to fulfill a Pact between them where Madara finally realizes the his goals and Vindicates the Sacrifice Izuna made by giving up his own eyeballs for Madara's Sake.

    Who knows, maybe Madara hopes to in the end, Bring back Izuna to life. In self redemption for his failure in his own mind and in Izuna's eyes to win Honor and Victory over Hashirama. Perhaps doing so that Izuna might rest at ease knowing his sacrifice was not in vain.

    Knowing Madara however, he probably doesn't think highly enough of Izuna to want to do any of this even in part, for him.

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  7. #97
    Appearance of Darkness Aga bomBa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    I'm not sure how Izuna being manipulated instead of Obito would change much, rather the degree of emotional shock from most characters would come close to zero and here we have Kakashi totally dispirited... I guess it's time that his bloodline kicked-in, transformed his MS into a new blue eyed doujutsu with would make his Raikiri white and work like pointblank black hole reaper...
    Who said that Izuna should be manipulated in the first place, IF he was TOBI? I think you're referring to my theory of Tobi=Izuna theory, but there wouldn't be any reasons or whatsever for him being manipulated by his big brother Madara.

    - Izuna, " entrusted " his eyes/powers to Madara and Madara was the one who was " entrusted with " and failed in achieving his goal. This way, Izuna sacrificed his eyes for nothing and by making that up; Madara used Rinne Tensei with his Rinnegan, revived Izuna back from death ( Izuna was dead for so long ) so Madara created Zetzu with H-cells for giving Izuna the necessary life-force / body parts for executing the plan. This time, Madara gave his little brother the chance for getting his eyes back ( which was HIS to begin WITH ) try to execute the masterplan for ruling the world together when he's revived back.

    ^^^, this is a summary of what I thought that could've been happening with the evidence, time-line what was given to us + a GREAT TWIST for the Naruto Manga if Tobi was indeed: Izuna Uchiha.

    There's a huge difference between Obito=/=Tobi and Izuna=/=Tobi.

    - Well, Madara Uchiha came up with this plan ( putting the world under genjutsu ) and not Tobi.. Tobi just executed the plan further to the point where we are right now. Madara's motive is his hunger for " POWER ", being the strongest shinobi and rule the world at his demands; Tobi's motive, reasoning for doing so ( it could be partly ) but right now, it's just simple " RIN ".

    I know, lots of you find it justice for him to be like this, but too be honest: a loss of one girl, compared to what Zabuza, Sasuke, Nagato etc. had to endure at a more younger age.. makes his motive very weak, in fact: this comparison isn't even justified, IF it's really just by losing RIN. ON TOP OF THAT: Tobi was the biggest mysterie in Naruto Manga for 600 chapters, it kept us hunger for more everytime he showed his appearances, his moment when Konan said to Pain--> he's here, the moment that he killed KONAN, his little chat with NARUTO and saying/seeing the SENJU DWELLS IN YOU, NARUTO, the moment he tried to capture Minato/attacked Konoha etc.. and it could be that Madara only manipulated Kisame/Itachi wih having that LONG HAIR ( we don't even know for sure it was REAL MADARA to begin with ), but the manipulation after that: pulling the strings behind Akatsuki, playing with the shinobi world ( the kages ), his way with Sasuke.. it looked like a high-level mindrape; by knowing it was a person who's been brainwashed at young age by Old Madara, already been manipulated; the value of Tobi's manipulation till now seems like watered down. THE GREATNESS is gone.

    For me; like POW, Paulbee and many others have said: we excepted MORE of his reveal, I excepted for him to be a TRUE VILLAIN material, that's all.

    Of course Tobi's been manipulated to a certain level; the loss of Rinne Tensei and Nagato's death, could've given him a fast oppertunity for twisting/bending the plan to his own favor.

    --- I hope you guys also read the MANGASTREAM version of this chapter, because this translation is far better ( like always ) then the others we've read on onther site. In fact; I'm even starting to believe more and more that Madara knows that Obito is having his own plans and not following up like he should.

    1. right bottom corner;
    Spoiler!

    "
    Obito: " to think you could defy Edo Tensei.. I guess that is to be excepted from you "

    The one I bolded: I'm starting to think that Obito TRUELLY wanted Madara to be gone like the others as well, but he had to say ".. to be excepted from you ", because it would be to freakin obvious, right?

    2.
    Spoiler!


    the vibe, the conversation of Madara not trusting Tobi and Tobi having his own plans begins with this dialogue. The middle panel is confronting him with the plan and then: " You were impatient Obito,.. is that also why you've revived me in this way "?

    - First, look at Obito's face in the middle panel when Madara begins about it. Then, Madara says; " .. revived me in this way? " Tobi-Obito didn't DO SHIT, it was all Kabuto's doing.. he said that he was Tobi's ASSISSTENT, but Tobi simple couldn't stop Kabuto and eventually tried to use Kabuto and hope for a win-win situation. The question is: does Madara knows that it wasn't Tobi's plan for reviving him in this state?

    3.
    Spoiler!


    RIGHT UPPER CORNER: Obito is totally SPEECHELESS when Madara asked him in the page before: " is this why you revived me like this? "

    - NOW; it all starts.. ^^ at the same page, middle panel, Madara says: " well, if it's you, there's probably something more that you're planning " yes, Madara looks at his right arm for checking if it's OBITO, but when he says " there's probably something more that you're planning ", isn't said to him for him to believe that Madara trusts him for what he has done or has planned to do: IS actually a STATEMENT, a HINT that he knows that he ( obito ) has made his own plans and doesn't follow up the plan THAT OBITO was told to do.

    4. This page, is the final HINT, right middle panel:
    Spoiler!


    Obito; " He betrayed us,.. he revived the villager's with that jutsu "
    Madara; " EVERYONE'S doing as THEY LIKE "

    I'll repeat; everyone's doing as they like.. ok, this is for me, A HUGE HINT that Madara doesn't trust Obito anymore. Who's everyone?? After him being revived with Edo Tensei, there were two people who had to do what they were ordered to do, right?

    - If Nagato was the only one who did what he like do and not following up the plan, why everyone? I DON"T BELIEVE that he said everyone just because Obito revived him in Edo Tensei form.. I believe with all the hints I showed above with the other pages, that Madara is pissed off and knows that Obito has made his own plans.

    I'm not saying it's a fact or anything like it, but after re-reading the chapter many times.. it looked for me like Kishi is giving us hints that Madara KNOWS that Obito has his own plans.
    ... You're Dead 2 Me Now ...

  8. #98
    Que gatito mas leeendo!!! hikonami's Avatar
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    i think obito just wants to create the tsukuyomi to avoid reality of what happened to him. i think at the end he doesn't care about anything or anyone. he just wants to escape to a "better place" for himself. a world where things had gone the way he wanted......... madara's plan i think is total world domination.
    Miau, Miau, Miau.....prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!

  9. #99
    Mangaka Sharingan Foxhound's Avatar
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    I think Naruto will use that technique against Madara...But I can't understand why he didn't use it against edo-Nagato .Is that only Kurama's ability? (just like bijuudama)
    Spoiler!
    Kabuto knows how to increase manga release rate
    Spoiler!

  10. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    No one is born as evil. Earth is a plane of existence between heaven and hell, thus the color of humans is gray and it's shades. The only question is what made you come closer to black or white ?
    Exactly. It seems to me like some of these people are actually complaining about the villains here being more complex than a villain who's simply all evil and completely irredeemable just 'cause, when often times things are not that simple.

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