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  1. #21
    you're too troublesome Shikamaru-sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by afro thunda View Post
    Well i think they said it was best that the kyuubi be extracted last, not that it had to be the last one. But think about it, if Itachi and Kisame had caught Naruto then, do you think he would have gotten away from them later? Highly unlikely. Akatsuki would of just pushed their plans forward if Naruto had been caught. At least thats what i think would happen.
    Im positive that the 9 tails needs to be sealed last or else the balance of the sealing statue will wrong or whatever and it will crumble. Itachi was talking about it with Kisame when they were waiting to seal the 4 tails.

  2. #22
    I stopped after the Jiraiya is Itachi part... Ugh... *leaves forever*

  3. #23
    Apparently you are all too blind to read what I said, or elsewise.

    Obito is Tobi, Madara took him over. Itachi couldn't stand to kill Sasuke due to him being his brother. He obviously had to kill them all if what you guys are saying is true, saying he's "Too Pathetic" would contradict that, wouldn't it?

    Never once did I state Itachi was told about this when he was three, this could have been mentioned to him right before he read the book, which was also around the time Jaraiya was last seen inside of it.

    Not one of you was paying attention to the Manga apparently, as every one of the facts I stated is either true, or partially correct. Some is of course speculation though. You also have to keep in mind that Madara is as old as the First, who died of old age.

    Nobody can say this theory is correct because it is just that; a theory. Tell me this, why didn't Jaraiya kill Itachi and Kasami? He nearly beat Pain, who of course is stronger then Itachi.

    To what I quoted, keep in mind Itachi is paired with Kisame. Those outside of their pairs they would not know much about. The person in Rain also stated that nearly nothing is known of pain.

    Quote Originally Posted by jupzter View Post
    1.Dude what kind of an informant is Itachi then Jiraiya is now dead just to know Pein's true identity! well Itachi did a hell of a job so that theory is B.S.

    2. How the heck did you know that Madara only have one eye dude we all know Obito died years a go and got crushed by boulders. How the heck did Itachi save Madara to gain his trust pure B.S. dude

    3. Dude at that time Itachi is just a child what kind of instruction are we talking here! Why Jiraiya is in Konoha coz hes a leaf ninja what else.

    4. What the heck to contact Jiraiya w/ your partner Kisame. Itachi just leaned that Kakashi's informant about the Akatsuki is Jiraiya theres no way hes a spy of Jiraiya!
    Quote Originally Posted by afro thunda View Post
    1. Itachi had a reason, its just not very convincing after the past events.
    2. Did you see those infiltration skills? Jiraiya could have done it himself.
    3. Maybe....
    4. Maybe....
    5. It was because Sasuke didn't want Jiraiya to attack. He made his move to attack after Sasuke fainted.

    6. I seem to remember Itachi breaking Sasuke's wrist and delivering a few heavy blows before using MS on him.


    7. Itachi gave a reason for letting Sasuke live. He was too pathetic to kill.

    I don't agree with any of your theory at all. Itachi wasn't even born yet when Obito was alive. His only reason for being in Konoha was getting Naruto and the kyuubi. He even said that. Itachi also wasn't expecting Naruto to be with Jiraiya. So I don't see where Itachi was Jiraiya's informant.
    Well of course he wouldn't stand there and take Sasuke's attack. He also would have to keep up the act due to Kisame still being there, wouldn't he?

    Nobody said Kisame was in on this.

  4. #24
    Senior Member iron_maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zidane01970 View Post
    Apparently you are all too blind to read what I said, or elsewise.

    Obito is Tobi, Madara took him over. Itachi couldn't stand to kill Sasuke due to him being his brother. He obviously had to kill them all if what you guys are saying is true, saying he's "Too Pathetic" would contradict that,
    wouldn't it?

    Never once did I state Itachi was told about this when he was three, this could have been mentioned to him right before he read the book, which was also around the time Jaraiya was last seen inside of it.

    Not one of you was paying attention to the Manga apparently, as every one of the facts I stated is either true, or partially correct. Some is of course speculation though. You also have to keep in mind that Madara is as old as the First, who died of old age.

    Nobody can say this theory is correct because it is just that; a theory. Tell me this, why didn't Jaraiya kill Itachi and Kasami? He nearly beat Pain, who of course is stronger then Itachi.

    To what I quoted, keep in mind Itachi is paired with Kisame. Those outside of their pairs they would not know much about. The person in Rain also stated that nearly nothing is known of pain.

    Well of course he wouldn't stand there and take Sasuke's attack. He also would have to keep up the act due to Kisame still being there, wouldn't he?

    Nobody said Kisame was in on this.
    first of all it hasn't been stated that obito is tobi that's just pure speculation. i myself also believed that as well and the evidence i used was the one eye thing and the name. but everything that has been said in the manga all points to the fact that tobi is madara. first off he said he was madara and pein also refered to him as madara so chances are that he's madara. personally i stick with the tobi=tobi theory because he's been called madara yet he wears a mask which i think is intriguing. if you want to discuss why you think tobi is obito that's fine but there are a lot of threads like that so please contribute to those threads.

    the reason why jiraiya didn't kill itachi and kisame was because itachi used amateresu (sp?). if you remember jiraiya said that he would kill itachi and kisame because they were s-class criminals in the bingo book and then he used the frog stomach jutsu. then he said that no one had escaped from the jutsu yet itachi and kisame escaped and he was shocked. my point is jiraiya tried to kill them but was unsuccessful because itachi had a trump card and used it to get out of the deadly situation he was in.

    these were your facts:
    1. Itachi seemingly had no reason to kill the Uchiha Clan.
    2. Jaraiya has(d) a "Reliable Informant" close to Akatsuki. Akatsuki moves bases.
    3. The last time Jaraiya was in the Hidden Leaf before Naruto and so on was "Around the time of the Uchiha Incident"
    4. Itachi read about the Mangekyou inside of a book in the Uchiha Hideout, also where Sasuke and Itachi are about to fight.
    5. Jaraiya trapped Itachi and Kisame inside of his Stomach of Frog Technique. He did not harm either. Nor attempt to stop Sasuke from attacking him or prevent him from harm.
    6. Itachi still has yet once proven to harm Sasuke. Always had used a Genjutsu.
    7. During the Uchiha Incident Itachi spared Sasuke with no reason given.


    but most of them are just speculation and aren't supported by the manga.

    afrothunda gave the best answer to your facts so i'll repost his statements.

    1. Itachi had a reason, its just not very convincing after the past events.
    2. Did you see those infiltration skills? Jiraiya could have done it himself.
    3. Maybe....
    4. Maybe....
    5. It was because Sasuke didn't want Jiraiya to attack. He made his move to attack after Sasuke fainted.

    6. I seem to remember Itachi breaking Sasuke's wrist and delivering a few heavy blows before using MS on him.

    7. Itachi gave a reason for letting Sasuke live. He was too pathetic to kill.


    you said nobody can say this theory is correct, but don't forget theories have to be supported by facts and your theory isn't supported by facts from the manga.


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  5. #25
    Senior Member Shinhan's Avatar
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    It doesn't say anywhere in the series that the first hokage died of old age. I don't where you got that so called fact from. Also when he was resurrected it seemed he was in his prime. I'm not sure if that jutsu resurrects the person at the age of there death, but chances are the first hokage was killed in batlle. Maybe with madara who knows.

  6. #26
    Valdr galga Óðinn's Avatar
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    I'd go with some part of your theory being correct, because I was also thinking Jiraiya needed intelligence about Oro and Akatsuki. My point is he could only get it from some random Akatsuki member, or gather it himself. But Jiraiya, then, should have infiltrated the real group, I mean, Rain nins don't know anything about Pein's plan, or, according to recent developments, Tobi's. So the only way to obtain it was "asking" one of the real guys. No chance one of them wouldn't notice. Pein got him straight away, also Konan attacked the Rain nin he was controlling, which means she knew somehow he was the intruder. They both knew him, but he didn't even approach them, which he should have done with any other member to get info.
    So, to me, there must be a informant, and Itachi looks the best suited for the role.
    It looks quite obvious it wasn't Kakuzu nor Hidan, just the way they act and they both died shortly after their appearance. Well, kinda.
    It wasn't Pein nor Konan, that's for sure.
    It wasn't Sasori nor Deidara, they don't seem to fit.
    Zetsu seems to be too much into their plans to be informing Konoha.
    Kisame doesn't look like the guy who'd sell intelligence without a reason, and I don't see him having one. He doesn't know people and he wouldn't gain anything.
    At first, I would have gone with Tobi, but he's like the uber-boss, it would be too weird.
    So we have only Itachi. He is a Konoha nin, he knows Jiraiya and is unpredictable enough to be doing it.
    I have no idea or clue about the rest.
    There are a lot of maybes and ifs, but that's what theories are about, right? Otherwise they'd be facts.

  7. #27
    Senior Member iron_maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wotan View Post
    I'd go with some part of your theory being correct, because I was also thinking Jiraiya needed intelligence about Oro and Akatsuki. My point is he could only get it from some random Akatsuki member, or gather it himself. But Jiraiya, then, should have infiltrated the real group, I mean, Rain nins don't know anything about Pein's plan, or, according to recent developments, Tobi's. So the only way to obtain it was "asking" one of the real guys. No chance one of them wouldn't notice. Pein got him straight away, also Konan attacked the Rain nin he was controlling, which means she knew somehow he was the intruder. They both knew him, but he didn't even approach them, which he should have done with any other member to get info.
    So, to me, there must be a informant, and Itachi looks the best suited for the role.
    It looks quite obvious it wasn't Kakuzu nor Hidan, just the way they act and they both died shortly after their appearance. Well, kinda.
    It wasn't Pein nor Konan, that's for sure.
    It wasn't Sasori nor Deidara, they don't seem to fit.
    Zetsu seems to be too much into their plans to be informing Konoha.
    Kisame doesn't look like the guy who'd sell intelligence without a reason, and I don't see him having one. He doesn't know people and he wouldn't gain anything.
    At first, I would have gone with Tobi, but he's like the uber-boss, it would be too weird.
    So we have only Itachi. He is a Konoha nin, he knows Jiraiya and is unpredictable enough to be doing it.
    I have no idea or clue about the rest.
    There are a lot of maybes and ifs, but that's what theories are about, right? Otherwise they'd be facts.
    first of all theories have to be based on fact and zidane's theory isn't based on facts from the manga. it's merely speculation. first of all you said the only way jiraiya could get information on akatsuki plans were to ask akatsuki members or to get the info by himself. well i agree with you that jiraiya could have done it himself, hell i think that's the most probably way it could have happened. of course jiraiya could have also used his toads as well to get info. but getting the info from akatsuki members just doesn't seem likely and here's why. first of all from what we've seen no one has seen pein's true face except for konan and tobi. when we saw pein's face during the akatsuki meetings it was usually blurred.

    also considering the fact that tobi is the true leader of akatsuki surely getting info of akatsuki plans from the members would have been useless. so that's why the best way jiraiya could have gotten information would have been to infiltrate akatsuki himself or send one of his toads as a spy to gather information. and we saw this when he went to amagekure to get info on pein. when jiraiya went to amegakure pein said that he sensed a very strong person but he wasn't sure who it was. konan had to go scouting in order for her to find out who it was.

    remember when she saw the rain nin and attacked she said "that can only be your toad sihloutte jutsu." well we know that jiraiya knows toad jutsus and he trained konan and pein so it makes sense why she knew it was jiraiya even though he was using that jutsu. so my point is chances are that jiraiya got the info on akatsuki and pein most likely by himself or with the help of his toads.


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  8. #28
    Valdr galga Óðinn's Avatar
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    Yeah about theories I was just joking, I know they have to be fact based. About Jiraiya getting info by himself, he must have used toads, cause I think I remember he said it was the first time he was in the Rain village when he went after Pein. I'll check that. And btw Pein would have sensed him. That's so much like Darth Vader "I felt a twitch or whatever in the Force. It's Obi-Wan, my old master." Sorry bout that. I know Pein didn't know it was Jiraiya, but still he knew someone infiltrated, and for my point that's the same. Then no one knew Pein's face and so didn't Jiraiya, he was shocked at the rin'negan.

    I kinda agree with you, I'm not totally convinced of the Itachi is Jiraiya's man theory, just saying if there's a traitor in Akatsuki, that's got to be him. Considering also he seems to know about Tobi.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by zidane01970 View Post
    Apparently you are all too blind to read what I said, or elsewise.

    Obito is Tobi, Madara took him over. Itachi couldn't stand to kill Sasuke due to him being his brother. He obviously had to kill them all if what you guys are saying is true, saying he's "Too Pathetic" would contradict that, wouldn't it?

    Never once did I state Itachi was told about this when he was three, this could have been mentioned to him right before he read the book, which was also around the time Jaraiya was last seen inside of it.

    Not one of you was paying attention to the Manga apparently, as every one of the facts I stated is either true, or partially correct. Some is of course speculation though. You also have to keep in mind that Madara is as old as the First, who died of old age.

    Nobody can say this theory is correct because it is just that; a theory. Tell me this, why didn't Jaraiya kill Itachi and Kasami? He nearly beat Pain, who of course is stronger then Itachi.

    To what I quoted, keep in mind Itachi is paired with Kisame. Those outside of their pairs they would not know much about. The person in Rain also stated that nearly nothing is known of pain.





    Well of course he wouldn't stand there and take Sasuke's attack. He also would have to keep up the act due to Kisame still being there, wouldn't he?

    Nobody said Kisame was in on this.

    Dude Jiraiya just trapped Itachi and Kisame and they both escaped its not part of their mission so why the heck will battle Jiraiya to the death. Beside its in the flow of the story what do you think will happen if Jiraiya had killed Itachi... The 2 brothers are destined to meet again

    Sasuke: Damn you perverted hermit you kill my brother hes supposed to die at my hands...


    Spoiler!

  10. #30
    Senior Member Afro Thunda's Avatar
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    Actually, I believe that the 1st died young. Which would be supported by the fact that Orochimaru was able to summon him and the 2nd in the exact same physical shape (Give or take a few years or so) as they were when the 3rd was still a kid.

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