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  1. #61
    Senior Member Yoru's Avatar
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    Mar 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Aga bomBa View Post
    POW.. my man, I love you bro! I feel the same.. JUST FCKIN PATHEFETIC!!

    I could've never imagined, that I would feel so disappointed in Kishi's writing.. seriously.

    - Nagato; a child seeing his parents die infront of his eyes, couple years later; he had to make a choice to kill his best friend. His was in shock and his best friend took his hands and stabbed himself while looking in his face and telling how must save the world: TRUE MATERIAL OF BEING A VILLAIN!

    - Zabuza; growing up in a shinobi village where you're forced to kill your best friends/the one you love, just to survive and become a shinobi.TRUE MATERIAL OF BEING A VILLAIN!

    - Sasuke; having a brother who had no alternative and had to massacre his own clan by the top tier of Konoha, including his parents/the ones he loved who were close to him,.. made his little brother witness all that horror/loss around him, PUTTING him under genjutsu and making him repeately witness the death of his parents, made him believe for 10 years that he was a " bad " brother and suddenly hears the true story about what truelly happened: TRUE MATERIAL OF BEING A VILLAIN!

    - TOBI / OBITO, or whatever the fuck he is; ''Those who don't follow the rules are trash, but those who abandon their friends are worse than trash'' <<-- this guy; SUDDENLY, OUT OF THE FCKIN BLUE,.. in 1 year, let me repeat: ONE FCKIN YEAR, became so EVIL MINDED, attacked Konoha and tried to KILL A FREAKIN BABY, and not just by throwing him in the sky and trying to stab him.. HE PLANTED AN EXPLOSIVE TAG on NARUTO'S ASS, kidnapped Kushina and makes statements like; " I WAS WAITING SOO LONG FOR THIS " [ yea right, 1 fckin year is sooo long :S ], then played some hide&sneek with the most strongest, genius shinobi ever lived, HE ( Obito ) GIVES MINATO " COMPLIMENTS " like; " you deserve the title of fourth Hokage, managing to wound and wrest the fox out of my control " , what did he thought??? That he would be more powerfull then his old teacher who was praised for being a genius among geniuses?!?!
    Tobi made it look like that Minato's and Itachi's analzying skills were Genin level.. talking about "I gave those eyes" and " they were mine to begin with "... ooooooooooooohh, so what kishi meant was: " well, Madara gave me his eyes and I gave it to Nagato??? Hmmzz, okey.. but you weren't even fckin BORN, when it was given to Nagato ?!?!?!
    And even after Kabuto told " TOBI " that he knows that he ain't Madara, he still makes that statement.. okey, soo HOW THE FCK!?!?!

    --- and he became all of this, just for freakin RIN!!! a girl, who he loved.. never even been loved back on the same level, HE THEN: feels like " NO ONE ", loves to watch Sasuke kill KARIN and calling him " Good boy, that's it"

    Hahaahahaha, just pathefetic.. I even take back all my words for COMPLEMENTING HIM for his SKILLS IN BEING A MASTER MANIPULATOR, BADASS VILLAIN! He doesn't even deserves the title of BEING THE END OR EVEN VILLAIN, seriously.. his reasons, excuse me; REASON was just fuckin blame ass " RIN ". Ooooohh you didn't save Rin, kakashi.. but no sweat kakashi old friend; I don't blame YOU, I blame the world for her death and that's the reason I want to destroy soo many people and put the world under genjutsu!

    What a fckin weak chapter, weak writing.. I never imagined that I would be so unsatisfied by Kishi's writing,.. WAITING LITERALLY 5 years FOR THIS! It was truelly Kishi who manipulated us with those statements and suspense, not REALLY TOBI, if you know what I mean. Please, just GET RID OF HIM Naruto, or Madara.. just thank him and stabs his ass from behind and pull his " No ONE " heart out of his chest and take it all over. Better said; BRING SASUKE BACK into the PICTURE, even Orochimaru! Why Itachi Uchiha, why didn't you try to kill this bastard, damn fkcin hell!

    @ YORU: my friend,.. it's not like POW, I and others who are disappointed, doesn't know or understand this LOVE/HATE scenario's: it was just not FITTING FOR HIM to fall back on something so weak like this: a GIRLFRIEND, made him do this.. he doesn't deserve it. 5 years waiting and the PLOT IS SO WEAK, pathefetic. This is a scenario that must have been dealt already with kakashi years back, not " MASTER GENIUS " who plays with the shinobi world behind the scenes, playes with the darkness of people.. he doesn't even deserve the TITLE of " badass VILLAIN ".

    And the TIMELINE IS ALSO SOOOOOO fcked-up, it ain't funny anymore.. why making DATABOOK, if you don't use it. I've never been so pissed.
    Why isn't it fitting for him? He's always been a weak boy, he didn't have anything. All he ever did was a failure. Everything he ever had was hope. He hoped he would one day become a strong shinobi, he hoped Rin would love him, he hoped to change the image of a true shinobi, he hoped Kakashi would fulfill his promise to him. Step by step he's been unsuccesfull, totally useless:

    -He didn't become strong. All he could do was to sacrifice his life for his comrades and let kakashi protect his friend.
    -He never got to confess his feelings to Rin. She was in love with kakashi all the time...yet she was the only person that cared for him deeply.
    -He's changed kakashi, that's true, but the world has stayed the same. Ninja still respect rules and sometimes commit atrocious things to carry out their missions. The root is a good example of this.
    -The moment Obito thought he would die, his last wish, his deepest desire has been entrusted to Kakashi. Just like in Konan's case where Naruto became her dream itself, so is with Obito: kakashi became his dream, his eye trough wich he could observe a better future. Yet kakashi failed, even though he was a lot more skilled than obito. Obito trusted kakshi more than anyone when he was dying, but even a powerful ninja like him didn't carry out his duty.

    He, Obito, was still a young boy, who spoke big things because he had HOPE. Everyone in narutoverse had hope once, but because of particular reasons they all lost it slowly until they became hollow. When his last bit of hope was gone, all his world crumbled, and before he could start re-building his emotions and re-gaining hope, Madara kicked in and completely tore Obito's view of reality apart. Moon eye's plan is tempting to someone who's always been a total failure, who had to go trough so many let downs. At once he could achieve everything he always desired: power and peace of heart.

    You're too fast to determine whether it's a pathetic twist for him, for you haven't yet seen the arguments madara used to convince him. He almos made Oonoki shit his pants, and Obito's just a brat, a lot weaker than the tsuchikage was then. Who knows what things did madara promise him once their plan is complete. A perfect world for Obito where everything's ok...
    He was just a child, Aga. A small, weak child. And an adult took his innocence from him, by affecting him with his darkness. I don't say it was Rin's death alone that produced those changes, but a whole chain of events that destroyed his life. Who should he blame? The rock ninjas? No. They were at war and they were just executing orders. The kages? Probably, but even them were pulled in that situation by hundreds of years of hatred. Then who? Kakashi? No...having revenge on one person is not going to make him feel any better, there would be only emptiness. A senseless emptiness left. THen what is the origin of all sufference? This world! Reality! It's its fault for stepping forwards and cruelly taking away things ppl care for! So I'll stop reality itself and everything: the pain, the hatred, the sufference, unfulfilled dreams, all will stop forever! He thought. Or madara told him that. He wants to eliminate the problem at its roots. And not just because he lost a girl, but because everything in the world is destined to fail, according to him, so what's the sense either way?
    Let the timeline stay out of this. The only problem with obito is that he seemed too old when fighting minato. The years of academy don't have anything to do with him turning into Tobi.

    ANd cool it. Don't you think you're gettin gway too depressed just because one thig in the manga didn't go as you wanted it to go? Maybe kishi hasn't shown us eveything he keeps in store for us? What about the huge revealtions aboyt the progenitor? Huh? Maybe they tie with Obito's past and explain what that little boy might have discovered that made him so twisted?
    You say that Obito's motives were stupid, but you don't know anything that obito experienced in that 1 year. It takes a huge amount of things to change a person like that. Don't underestimate madara's manipulative skills!
    Taking back the compliments for being a badass manipulator doesen't have anyhing to do with Tobi's identity! Whatever his reasons were, he is good at manipulating and disguising himself as other people. It just seems as if you're saying: "Oh, Obito's got a lame motive to be a villain, so I he's not a great manipulator anymore"...
    Last edited by Yoru; 09-05-2012 at 03:10 PM.

  2. #62
    its a shame not in the chapter but i was actually hoping by some weird plot hole no jutsu that makes some sort of sense that it wasn't obito

    Know his name: Jiraiya Sama of the legendary Sannin
    May he rest in peace and he will be sorely missed, the strongest out of all the three

  3. #63
    Konjiki Ashisogi Jizō Daemon Spade's Avatar
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    Jun 2011
    inbetween Matsumoto's ______! Dont, judge me!
    I hate to say this but, Naruto and company need Saskue to show up very soon. As good as Naruto, Bee, and Guy are, I dont think they have a chance against Madara and Obito.

    Favorite Manga/Anime Characters
    Naruto, Orochimaru, Jariya, Itachi, Ichigo, Mayuri, Kenpachi, Mugen, Vash the Stampede, "L", Edward Elric, Reborn, Rokudo Mukuro, Black Star, Dr. Fraken Stein, Death the Kid

  4. #64
    Senior Member inu_qq's Avatar
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    May 2008
    okay okay okay.
    So we know Obito's plan is to put the world under eternal genjutsu.. The next logical question should be whether or not the "real" madara shares this same plan. I mean, what motive does that power hungry ape have to cast genjutsu over the entire world? IMHO, none.

    More than likely, Madara's plan is to become the host of the Juubi. It fits in with his personality. And honestly, it looks like it's going to happen. But then what?

    I mean, say he did become the ten tails' host. Then he defeats Naruto and co. (not saying this will happen, bear with me) Then what? He's proven that he's more powerful than his senju enemies from 80 years ago?? Who cares. There has to be more to his plan.

    And also, now that he's broken free from edo tensei, is he still immortal? Or does aging once again effect him? I'm utterly confused by Madara and what his plans are. Tobi was never really important. We have all put too much stake into this character, and now that the dust is clearing, I hope we can all focus on Madara and what the fuck that crazy bastard is trying to do.

    /end ranting

  5. #65
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Aug 2007
    Heh, all a villain ever needed was a twisted mind, that's all. His reasons are only that what he chose himself, perhaps reasons are in truth the limit of humanity's "free" will...

    Well anyway, I was expecting those reactions and most likely in other places it is even worse ;P.

    Now that Tobi and Madara met, what will happen next ? Will they cooperate, or will they fight against each other ? Perhaps Tobi was playing even before Zetsu when he said that he wanted to revive Madara, while in reality he wanted to finish the plan himself ?

    Black Zetsu is still a mystery, perhaps he is the real wild card, the true mastermind that fooled even Madara. Somehow it still looks strange that Madara never even mentioned him (he only mentioned one partner after all). What's more, at the time we see the Long Haired Tobi, we don't see Black Zetsu or any other one as well.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Execution's Avatar
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    Aug 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by Execution View Post
    I wonder if Madara's ideology is at all similar to Obito's or if it is something he is using to manipulate him with? To me it seems kind of odd that a man who only respects power and sees anyone that is weak as disgusting is trying to take all of the reasons for the acquisition of power away from the world. With his current power and immortality one would think that he could destroy the alliance single handedly and claim power in the actual world itself. The moons eye plan almost seems like it would be counterproductive to someone with his personality.
    I don't often get to quote myself.


    Madara seems to acknowledge the past as being painful, but at the same time seems to dismiss it as necessary.

    Obito wants to create a world where there is but one absolute power while Madara berates the Kage's for being too weak. It seems kinda contradictory when you want to create a world where everyone is below you and your power is absolute.


    Yet he still seems to be on board with it there wouldn't really be a reason to lie to the 5 Kage, but I'll bet that in some way Madara's version of Utopia is vastly different from Obito's.

    Also he said his body is still undying with unlimited chakra so yeah he's here for good.
    Last edited by Execution; 09-05-2012 at 04:14 PM.

  7. #67
    Appearance of Darkness Aga bomBa's Avatar
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    Oct 2008
    @ Yoru..

    It's hard to understand if you don't feel like I and many other do. It was the build up to.. how Tobi was represented, how big his influences were on the shinobi world and of course: the last part of Naruto Manga. This story ends after this war, this event is the " climax " of the story. His reasoning is something what could/should have happened way back in the beginning, a side-villain.. it would be perfect then, but right NOW: it's a shame.

    - You can't say it wasn't only " RIN ", he himself clarifies it and of course; by reading this chapter, it was all clear why that whole chapter of flashbacks from LAST WEEK. Rin was in the spotlights last week, and right now:

    Obito: " I leave Rin,.. to you "
    Obito: " wether *I* survived is not important. However, Yeah.. IF YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHY,.. IT'S BECAUSE YOU LET RIN DIE! "

    That page above, says it all. " The darkness " inside of him that you speak off, was his " loss " of RIN and his " faith " in Kakashi.. Madara has played that part and took it captive for winning his trust. Even thinking about it: maybe Madara didn't even did try that hard for convincing him.. like you said: Obito had hope for so many things, but didn't achieve anything. This could be his major jump to the darkness of HOLLOW, but in my EYES: it's very weak to make HIM " the biggest " mysterie of Naruto Manga.

    - I even found it very lame that Madara Uchiha chose him for taking on his Master Plan.. someone of his calibur putting everything in the hands ( like you said ) weak person who cried all the time, had big hopes but didn't achieve anything. " POWER " is everything for Madara Uchiha, so even that part of him entrusting his ressurection in Obito's hands is for me, very poor writing.

    And you're speaking of him facing lots of " failures " like he has lived and breath 30 years like Kakashi.. he was 11-13 years old, he had yet to begin facing the true world, true loss and all the responsiblity that comes along with it. The " PAIN AND LOSS " that Naruto, Sasuke, Gaara, Nagato and even ZABUZA in a far more younger age,had faced more painfull and cruelevents then Obito.

    So, basically,.. if RIN didn't DIE, he wouldn't do all of these stuff. It was from the beginning Madara's Master Plan that he carried out, but the person who carried it out " Tobi ", the msyterie that was build around him needed to have a WOW factor. A revelation that should've suprised us all, a epic plot twist that should make us all like; Unbelieveable, that Madara is a sickfuck etc.
    IF TOBI was his;

    1. Izanagi creation ( with Madara's knownledge), with partly Zetzu ( EPIC! " No- One "; that cruel, heartless actions would be more fitting )
    2. Izuna in Obito's body, partly Zetzu ( EPIC! )

    .. OR even something entirely different, but better then just Obito=Obito. I mean: you could every little detail, but is how the world is.. and Naruto is going to stop that circle. If it wasn't for Kakashi, he would have died immediately by that attack that destroyed Kakashi's eye. If it wasn't for Kakashi, he coudn't even died by giving a present to Kakashi and holding Rin's hand for the last few seconds with her shedding tears for him. On top of that; EVEN IF HE COULD CONFESS his love to her, she wouldn't except it.. just like Sakura.
    Rin LOVED KAKASHI, you know that, right?? It was shown in Kakashi Gaiden.. so what would've happened then; when he would hear from her that she didn't love him at all?? He would be all like; ooohh oke, fck the world, I BLAME THE WORLD for why she doesnt love me!

    This all tiny details is what I mean with; " not fitting " as a Akatsuki leader, BADASS ViLLAIN who made Minato sacrifice his and wife's soul, by putting half kyuubi inside of Naruto.. A NEEDED POWER FOR KILLING " TOBI ". Tobi, with his reasons and history,.. wanting Sasuke that badly and made Itachi prepare all those stuff for keeping sasuke away from him.. the WHOLE PICTURE is just simple LAME.

    ** By reading the last part that you've edited,.. it's pointless for explaining my thoughts, and sorry; I need to " COOL IT? " If I don't like it, then I don't like it.. that's what this forum is all about. You're talking about a TINY THING, it's not a tiny thing for me, it's a MAJOR THING.. that's probably what you're missing. This is NEAR THE END of the manga, it should be more then this after waiting 5 years for him to reveal his true identity. Don't like my post, don't fuckin react to it bro,.. that simple.

    You want me to accept that Tobi = Obito? How can I not accept that.. it's a fact. But the way it was build up, was less intresting then I thought that It would be.
    Last edited by Aga bomBa; 09-05-2012 at 04:21 PM.
    ... You're Dead 2 Me Now ...

  8. #68
    Senior Member janfeae's Avatar
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    Aug 2011
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    I must say, I too was excited to read this chapter, only to be gravely disappointed. It was the big 600 afterall; big things always happen every 100 chapters. There are so many inconsistencies with places in time and appearances.

    One big one that I would like some help with is Madara himself and his appearance. Wasn't the battle that created the Valley of the End around 80 years ago? If he really lived from then up until a chance to meet with a dying Obito, why does he still have the same appearance from aaaaaaaaalll those years ago???

    I must agree with @Aga bomBa on just about every point. Kishimoto has changed my life through the boy named Naruto. I'm 18 now and grew up with the series. That boy taught me valuable life lessons, and things to take with me on my path. But overall, it was a story I thoroughly enjoyed. Personally, I believed he wanted the fans to believe he was Obito. But only the ones who could be fooled easily (by what they saw), leaving the deeper thinkers out there to know that it obviously wasn't him, with only a mask, a similar name, and some spiky hair to prove otherwise.

    As the manga progressed, It was seemingly clear that it was impossible for him to be Obito because of things he knew, accomplished, and appeared and was said to have appeared in certain places in time. Yet, we have an angry "boy" behind a mask, standing behind somewhat of an unrealistic reason to be so angry. Love is indeed the most powerful emotion on earth (From my religious standpoint, the reason we were created, since he doesn't NEED anything, and created us out of love) and can make one do crazy things, but I can't say fans would have expected this war to be over a girl. Not solely it would seem, but primarily.

    I do apologize for getting a little off topic, but can someone answer my Madara question? I'm obviously forgetting something.

    and P.S. ---I sure remembered how Kakashi got his sharingan. That's big enough for the reader to remember after seeing it once. Saw it once in the manga, and once when it came out in the anime. So helpful to some i agree, but I do not think it was essential.
    Last edited by janfeae; 09-05-2012 at 04:48 PM.

  9. #69
    For those upset about the flashbacks in this chapter, you've got to remember that not everyone goes and reads every chapter as online scans, and that some people actually pick up WSJ every week. Thank goodness for those people, since they're the ones offering support to the author with their hard-earned money. For those people who didn't get to start reading the series from before the Gaiden, or just plain forgot what happened in it (kids, maybe?), these flashbacks are extremely necessary. If I had never read the Kakashi Gaiden before, I'd be as confused as Naruto is in this chapter. The events at the end of that side story are crucial to the current plot, and therefore must be highlighted.

    It's not like the Sasuke flashbacks, where he recalled the death of his clan repeatedly. We probably won't see this every week.

  10. #70
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Jul 2008
    River Falls, WI
    We laugh at Obito's motives, but I bet half the people in this thread would try to change reality to fix Kishi's story if we had the Rinnegan. But it's no use complaining about this pointless world where, after 4 years, a masked villain can turn out to be another emo kid. Kishi failed at his own timeline, that is the reality. Heroes don't care what their fans think, and the fans' voices will never be heard. This world is better off sleeping in the infinite forum debate, where fandom is the reality and authors can never be failures.

    Too many weeks examining Tobi's personality.

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