Naruto 600 Discussion / 601 Predictions

[knife eater]

Itachi knew they weren't the same person. His lecture to sasuke does as much to confirm the literal presence of the real madara prior to emergenceof a new personality (new to him in context of his encounters). Keep in mind, itachi can't afford to divulge the entire truth to sasuke who not only couldn't reach itachi's level of knowledge by his own power (would sasuke have been able to detect madara too?) Sasuke was even still following an immature and destructive path where if he knew the truth then he may follow that path to ruin. Letting sasuke discover matters in his own time seems to be working.g out for the best, especially since the impression was already given that tobi is pathetic, which is all the impression itachi needed to give to sasuke.

I believe itachi was not confused between the separate identities of madara and tobi. He may not have known of obito but at least knew tobi was not the real madara. He cleverly informs that they are of the same accord while hiding the fact they are different people.

The real question is, do you think tobi was more powerful than itachi? When itachi was living would tobi REALLY be able to put one over on itachi who could detect the real madara when no other uchiha could? No rinnegan, no 10 tails, nobody left to protect, tobi at suchva time isn't on itachi's level, he just had the privilege of having been told more cool sh*t by madara. Compared to itachi, obito was still a flunky uchiha before he was GIVEN the tailed beasts. Itachi did some of that dirty work too, i didn't see tobi battle jinchuriki.

Point is, tobi ain't foolin' da man.

[Zero]

I have a feeling that this is it - we will finally see Maito Gai openinng that ultimate last gate. Against Tobi and Madara, I dont see any other way to raise theyre chances rapidly.

Really ? I think that plugging out their eye would do the trick :p. On the other hand, both of them have healing powers (I'm not sure about Tobi, but he does have Zetsu parts and Hashirama's Power), so this might work for a long run.

Don't the Zetsu's look like clones taken from Obito, and made into that plant things? So far I've seen only Obito replace himself with zetsu parts. If it were as simple as that, zetsu would have given deidara a new arm instead of kakuzu sewing together the separated parts.
My guess is that Zetsu comes from Obito, and that's why he's only compatible with him.

I think that you need to be fused with Hashirama Cells to even fuse with Zetsu which is made of it. But now, who is the Black Zetsu, seeing as he is infused with Hashirama Cells (can join with White Zetsu), but obviously isn't made of it like the other part ?

Itachi knew they weren't the same person. His lecture to sasuke does as much to confirm the literal presence of the real madara prior to emergenceof a new personality (new to him in context of his encounters). Keep in mind, itachi can't afford to divulge the entire truth to sasuke who not only couldn't reach itachi's level of knowledge by his own power (would sasuke have been able to detect madara too?) Sasuke was even still following an immature and destructive path where if he knew the truth then he may follow that path to ruin. Letting sasuke discover matters in his own time seems to be working.g out for the best, especially since the impression was already given that tobi is pathetic, which is all the impression itachi needed to give to sasuke.

I believe itachi was not confused between the separate identities of madara and tobi. He may not have known of obito but at least knew tobi was not the real madara. He cleverly informs that they are of the same accord while hiding the fact they are different people.

The real question is, do you think tobi was more powerful than itachi? When itachi was living would tobi REALLY be able to put one over on itachi who could detect the real madara when no other uchiha could? No rinnegan, no 10 tails, nobody left to protect, tobi at suchva time isn't on itachi's level, he just had the privilege of having been told more cool sh*t by madara. Compared to itachi, obito was still a flunky uchiha before he was GIVEN the tailed beasts. Itachi did some of that dirty work too, i didn't see tobi battle jinchuriki.

Point is, tobi ain't foolin' da man.

Well, seeing as Tobi ALMOST owned the 4th Hokage, I can see why Itachi wouldn't call him pathetic, like the other Tobi who is Madara.

[Rlinfamous]

I'm getting more and more exciting for 601~! I've spent so much of the week dwelling on the Obito confirmation and its implications/justification, and now I'm really just eager to see Naruto vs. Madara. No more bitchy Kamui tactics, just full-blown Bijuu vs. Rinnegan Clash of the Titans. Bijuudama vs. Meteors, Bijuu Mode vs. Complete Susano'o, Kagebunshins vs. Mokuton, with Tobi/Guy/Kakashi/Bee in the mix of things.

Granted, there will likely be a fair amount of MASSIVE plot development as we learn more about the Tobi/Madara connection and finally get ALL of the answers we've been looking for to tie together the history of Madara, but let's pray that Kishi delivers on the potential Epicness of the coming battle. Naruto and Co. vs Tobi has really been a set-up for the Obito/Kakashi reunion (and Tobi's un-masking), but now the real Big Bad is back in town, and Naruto can finally cut loose.

/end rant

[merciless]

definatly something spooky between madara and obito, if i remember correctly the one that showed himself to kisame and the one that itachi found out was the true madara with the long hair O_o

[Zero]

Well, there are still many things unanswered and some to the point that you can't miss them, which probably are important to the plot... like Rin's surname, I mean really, if Sakura's surname, as useless, pointless or whatever it's purpose, was given and Rin's not, it does seem quite strange. Not to mention that Rin has Ninja Tattoos, which mostly appear on members of renowned clans (well she was pretty skilled-talented herself).

Then we have Yamato, I mean Tenzou, or whatever his name and surname is (unknown). To be able to fuse with Hashirama DNA so well, that he is the only person with no apparent deformation/mutation is quite strange as well. Of course he might have it hidden under his clothes who are almost fully covering his body. At least his Academy Graduation and Chunin promotion age of 6, make sense because he posses the Mokutoun, what's more even though he himself doesn't posses Physical Energies as strong as Hashirama (almost no one has anyway), he was still able to somewhat control-restrain the Kyubi with an additional aid of the pendant. Not to mention that it would have been strange for Orochimaru to chose a random baby for the test.

Itachi's mentioned girlfriend that was slew at Uchiha Massacre... really, to have not even one memory of her passed to Sasuke, that's well... I guess Itachi was all for bromance :p. No, but really this smells fishy as well. It's even mentioned here:

Spoiler!

So, unless Shisui is a girl, then Kishi screwed up again .


Oh right, I almost forgot that Kabuto actually wanted to obtain one of the Zetsu's (a prize for Kyubi ?). When both of them are combined they seem rather plant than tree like, and we know that flower and plants are actually an advanced form of Mokutoun, so perhaps Kabuto & Oro haven't completed their research on Hashirama's power... even though Kabuto was able to strengthen Madara even more than what he was before... it's possible that Tobi have completed or perfected the research on Hashirama power that Madara started, or simply he completed it in parts that Oro & Kabuto didn't, while they completed it in other parts.

Then, I wonder why Tobi didn't react like the other Zetsu to Naruto's abundant life energies from KCM, no to mention the Bijuu Mode, especially after he got hit with a Rasengan in Bijuu Mode. Even the Black Zetsu reacted to Naruto's energies:

Spoiler!

[[JUiCE]]

I just can't comprehend how people think that losing someone/not being able to get someone can turn someone evil. Really? You're going to sit there in your naruto pajamas, eating ramen, listening to naruto intro songs and say that it's perfectly viable for Obito to go bad and wanting to control world simply because he couldn't get the girl he wanted? And also because she died?

Come on, i know this is manga, but, I'm sure everyone here has lost someone in real life, whether in sickness, killed, assassinated, suicide, or something else, but have any of us gone "evil"? I know that we don't have powers, but even if I did (which is kinda dumb to even think about), I wouldn't go bad. Life is life. Some are just too childish and want to do something about it, which is selfish on it's own really.

And I know that almost everyone here has been turned down or wasn't able to get the girl they wanted, and have any of us gone bad?
Don't think so, but...maybe some of you weeaboos have. Listening to Linkin Park, thinking you're so dark and mysterious.

If you haven't noticed, yes, I'm going to go down the path of Kishimoto needing logic on his story. It's just something that should be there. Even if it's fiction, it should be logical to some degree. Because if it's not, then it ends up being like Gurren Lagann, and it's just there for kicks, not really taking it seriously (of course, besides the fact that it's a parody anime).


So, anyone who thinks it's okay to be illogical and agree that Obito SHOULD be Tobi, and that it all makes perfect sense, then you may:

Spoiler!

And for those of you who think logic is needed and that it's disappointing that Kishimoto is pretty much giving the fans the most obvious and laziest answers, then you're alright with me. :3

[Rlinfamous]

@Knife Eater: I believe Obito to have grown more powerful than Itachi PURELY through the resources he had available to him. Itachi's Sharingan is superior to Obito's; while both of them have mastered their eyes, Itachi wields a PAIR of Mangekyou, granting him Susano'o and more abilities. Itachi *could* have surpassed Tobi if he was inclined to follow the same path (enhance himself with Mokuton, implant a Rinnegan, control Gedo Mazou / tailed beasts, etc). Itachi was every bit as capable of these things as Obito, but was not hell-bent on increasing his power. In fact, Itachi *could* have gone a step further and obtained EMS (and maybe even created his own Rinnegan), but of course Itachi left that for Sasuke. Obito never had EMS potential, and couldn't even create his Susano'o unless he retrieved his eye from Kakashi.

However, Obito at this point is FAR beyond Itachi's level; the Rinnegan, his Paths, his Gedo statue, his army of Zetsu, his chakra... all of these are incredible. I'd argue that Obito's Kamui is less powerful, overall, than Itachi's Amaterasu/Tsukuyomi/Susano'o, but of course it grants him certain advantages in certain situations (Itachi would struggle to stall for time against Bijuu Mode Naruto and his backup, but Obito could easily do so if Kakashi weren't there to counter with Kamui).

I agree that Itachi's use of "Tobi" and "Madara" at different points in time raises the possibility that he knew them to be different people.. but that also means that Madara himself wore a mask with only one eye-hole. Granted, Obito also had a second Sharingan implanted behind his mask, but we can understand that; if the eye was implanted, he'd want to keep it hidden to avoid wasting chakra (same as Kakashi). Why would Madara (possibly the "Long Haired Tobi" from flashbacks, depending on when he died) do the same? Unless, of course, Madara survived even after leaving his Rinnegan to Nagato, and had implanted eyes, himself (and likewise had to deal with implanted Sharingan).

[Execution]

I just can't comprehend how people think that losing someone/not being able to get someone can turn someone evil. Really? You're going to sit there in your naruto pajamas, eating ramen, listening to naruto intro songs and say that it's perfectly viable for Obito to go bad and wanting to control world simply because he couldn't get the girl he wanted? And also because she died?

Come on, i know this is manga, but, I'm sure everyone here has lost someone in real life, whether in sickness, killed, assassinated, suicide, or something else, but have any of us gone "evil"? I know that we don't have powers, but even if I did (which is kinda dumb to even think about), I wouldn't go bad. Life is life. Some are just too childish and want to do something about it, which is selfish on it's own really.

And I know that almost everyone here has been turned down or wasn't able to get the girl they wanted, and have any of us gone bad?
Don't think so, but...maybe some of you weeaboos have. Listening to Linkin Park, thinking you're so dark and mysterious.

If you haven't noticed, yes, I'm going to go down the path of Kishimoto needing logic on his story. It's just something that should be there. Even if it's fiction, it should be logical to some degree. Because if it's not, then it ends up being like Gurren Lagann, and it's just there for kicks, not really taking it seriously (of course, besides the fact that it's a parody anime).

I think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that it is outside the realm of reality after all there is a reason that stalkers, people who commit suicide and various criminal acts exist. Some people just don't possess the mental fortitude to keep moving foward in the right direction. Actually reality itself is prone to be more illogical than fiction which is why we have serial killers who for the most part had perfectly normal pasts. Naruto actually tries to justify malicious acts by giving almost every villain some sort of Freudian excuse and make it appear to be more logical (the only visible exceptions appear to be Kakuzu and Hidan, but then again we were never shown their pasts).

Also like some others have said I don't think that Obito is actually aware that what he is doing is wrong. I might be more upset with this revelation if something similar didn't already happen. Remember Nagato? The man was going to use the Bijuu to destroy villages again and again so that they wouldn't wage war anymore simply because his best friend died. I can't see that as much different than what is happening to Obito now.

So, anyone who thinks it's okay to be illogical and agree that Obito SHOULD be Tobi, and that it all makes perfect sense, then you may:

Spoiler!

As a guy I feel I have to mention that, that is potentially one of the most mentally painful and macabre things I have ever seen.

And for those of you who think logic is needed and that it's disappointing that Kishimoto is pretty much giving the fans the most obvious and laziest answers, then you're alright with me. :3

Yeah it still doesn't make much since in a lot of area's, but not much else to do right now except roll with it until kishi explains it, and then if it still doesn't make sense after the explanations I expect that I'll be raging along with many others.

[Zero]

In the first place, LOVE, is illogically, so what's wrong with illogical actions spewing from illogical reasons ?

It really depends on Tobi's mentality. He obviously cared for Rin more than for himself. If he didn't care about himself, then why do the plan at all ? Of course it is mentioned that he cared for others as well and it is even visible by what he said about his Akatsuki companions that have fallen. If we assume he doesn't care for himself, we must ask what he cares about then ? If Madara promised to revive Rin after creating the perfect world, then he would do it. It's even possible that Obito is one of the people that, by having power/possibility to change/correct the World for better, will take it as his duty to fulifill. Thus, in order to create the perfect world for eternity, a certain amount of sacrifices is needed, even if those people were once close to him, he still would sacrifice them for the greater good. That is quite logical, don't you think ?

Still, his vision of "greater good" might have been misshaped by the life he had, by people he met, events he saw, things he have to endure. You have to remember that with Madara's memories (that can be transfered in a blink of an eye with a normal sharingan, as shown by Itachi doing it while disappearing), Zetsu's recorded events and Obito's own life, he would have over a 100 years of experience of humanity's dark history presented. After all that, would you still have hope ?


There are still many possibilities and roads Kishi can take to make it interesting and satisfying.

[Maximo]

I just can't comprehend how people think that losing someone/not being able to get someone can turn someone evil. Really? You're going to sit there in your naruto pajamas, eating ramen, listening to naruto intro songs and say that it's perfectly viable for Obito to go bad and wanting to control world simply because he couldn't get the girl he wanted? And also because she died?

Come on, i know this is manga, but, I'm sure everyone here has lost someone in real life, whether in sickness, killed, assassinated, suicide, or something else, but have any of us gone "evil"? I know that we don't have powers, but even if I did (which is kinda dumb to even think about), I wouldn't go bad. Life is life. Some are just too childish and want to do something about it, which is selfish on it's own really.

And I know that almost everyone here has been turned down or wasn't able to get the girl they wanted, and have any of us gone bad?
Don't think so, but...maybe some of you weeaboos have. Listening to Linkin Park, thinking you're so dark and mysterious.

If you haven't noticed, yes, I'm going to go down the path of Kishimoto needing logic on his story. It's just something that should be there. Even if it's fiction, it should be logical to some degree. Because if it's not, then it ends up being like Gurren Lagann, and it's just there for kicks, not really taking it seriously (of course, besides the fact that it's a parody anime).


So, anyone who thinks it's okay to be illogical and agree that Obito SHOULD be Tobi, and that it all makes perfect sense, then you may:

Spoiler!

And for those of you who think logic is needed and that it's disappointing that Kishimoto is pretty much giving the fans the most obvious and laziest answers, then you're alright with me. :3

Im think that there are 2 possibilities here .. either we as fans got so immersed in the whole Narutoverse that we were neglecting all the signs that Naruto manga is just plain & simple for kids, ooor Kishi at some point decided to cut short on his manga and just finnish it asap.

I personally think its the later, I mean Kishi devoted like 13 years of his life to Naruto manga ! Maybe he just wants to move on, or cash in on all the money the series accumulated and enjoy his life for a change. In my opinion, Kishi had a perfect plan on how to make all the pieces of the puzzle fit together and deliver a fantastic manga experience. I suspect that he might even planned to have a second time-skip sometimes after the Kage Summit .. who knows.