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  1. #121
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Final Word on Obito:

    I can't imagine any redeeming value to Kishimoto chosing Obito as the Vilain Tobi.


    Is it the shock or surprise value.....Well it is neither shocking or surprising, many readers have already guessed it for the LAZIEST of reasons such as TOBI +O =OBITO...Lame, Lazy, but not particularly surprising, more like dissapointing.

    IS it to further emphasize the cursed fate of the Uchiha.....Well, we've already had more than a lot of that lately.

    Neither does the choice demonstrate any great literary skill on Kishi's part, rather it seems forced/contrived. Kishimoto is now going to have to re-invent a rather torturous timeline with questions like when exactly did Madara die, how could Tobi have possibly formed Akatsuki, what manner of training/torture transformed a 13 yr old boy into a marauder that seriously challenged MInato, Controlled the Kyuubi, knew about effects of pregnancy on a jinchuuriki, one who had longed for a loooong time for the chance to reclaim the kyuubi, one who participated in the extinction of the Uchiha clan.

    He would also have to explaing the large personality and intelligence changes from kind Obito whos intelligence is lower than Naruto's (as per the databook, sorry Naruto) to Tobi the ruthless killer and Mastermind.

    For me there are other reasons for my dissatisfaction with the Choice. Instead of revealing the face of an evil doer whom we have not had a chance to empathize and sympathisize with, we now are forced to do an emotional about face. Whereas before Obito was a Shining example of an Uchiha who went to his grave a true hero, a ray of sunshine shed on a tragic and fallen clan, he has now been dragged down into the murky mire with the rest of his clan. We have been deprived of the pleasure of knowing and cherishing the memory of one single solitary Good, kind hearted and Normal Uchiha.

    True enough that this is merely a Manga, but I would argue that literature should attempt to reflect some goodness and some hope. If the Uchiha are a metaphor for a minority Clan/group, there should be at least ONE of them who we can all hold up in all honesty and earnestly as someone exemplary of good amongst themwhom everyone can safely emulate.

    Obito, that shinny eyed young man who loved rin, and who wanted to protect everyone is gone there is no one left to stand for the Uchiha. I am certain that Sasuke will redeem himself by helping to stop Madara, however I would have preferred that the good memory of Obito would have been left un-tarnished.
    Last edited by paulbee; 09-06-2012 at 01:46 AM.

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    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  2. #122
    Konjiki Ashisogi Jizō Daemon Spade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReMaKe View Post
    Haven't posted here in a while. Anyways,

    Why all the hate towards Obito and his reason for becoming evil?

    I"m guessing few people here have loved someone ( Be In love with someone ) and I'll guess fewer have lost that loved one.

    In today's world people lose a loved one everyday, and everyone deals about it differently, some just become depressed some move on, some commit suicide and then every once in a while some will seek out revenge, revenge to the world for taking from them something they loved, and they go and kill people, it's not rare to hear someone killed someone cause of a loved one.

    We've had massacres done, now imagine what it'd be like if those people in the real world who kill people everyday cause they lost someone, had the abilities you have in the narutoverse. That plus Madara adding fuel to the fire.

    Don't see how most of you don't understand it.

    But, hope they show Sasuke and Oro next chapter!
    where is the applause smiley when you need it?

    +1
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  3. #123
    Senior Member Afro Thunda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    True enough that this is merely a Manga, but I would argue that literature should attempt to reflect some goodness and some hope. If the Uchiha are a metaphor for a minority Clan/group, there should be at least ONE of them who we can all hold up in all honesty and earnestly as someone exemplary of good amongst them whom everyone can safely emulate.
    There was Itachi... Well, if you take away the clan extermination part, that is... lol

  4. #124
    Que gatito mas leeendo!!! hikonami's Avatar
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    i think obito being tobi just means kakashi is gonna play a more active role now...i think he'll die soon..just like ero-sennin did.....i don't want that to happen, he's my favorite character!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Miau, Miau, Miau.....prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!

  5. #125
    Konjiki Ashisogi Jizō Daemon Spade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Final Word on Obito:

    I can't imagine any redeeming value to Kishimoto chosing Obito as the Vilain Tobi.


    Is it the shock or surprise value.....Well it is neither shocking or surprising, many readers have already guessed it for the LAZIEST of reasons such as TOBI +O =OBITO...Lame, Lazy, but not particularly surprising, more like dissapointing.

    IS it to further emphasize the cursed fate of the Uchiha.....Well, we've already had more than a lot of that lately.

    Neither does the choice demonstrate any great literary skill on Kishi's part, rather it seems forced/contrived. Kishimoto is now going to have to re-invent a rather torturous timeline with questions like when exactly did Madara die, how could Tobi have possibly formed Akatsuki, what manner of training/torture transformed a 13 yr old boy into a marauder that seriously challenged MInato, Controlled the Kyuubi, knew about effects of pregnancy on a jinchuuriki, one who had longed for a loooong time for the chance to reclaim the kyuubi, one who participated in the extinction of the Uchiha clan.

    He would also have to explaing the large personality and intelligence changes from kind Obito whos intelligence is lower than Naruto's (as per the databook, sorry Naruto) to Tobi the ruthless killer and Mastermind.

    For me there are other reasons for my dissatisfaction with the Choice. Instead of revealing the face of an evil doer whom we have not had a chance to empathize and sympathisize with, we now are forced to do an emotional about face. Whereas before Obito was a Shining example of an Uchiha who went to his grave a true hero, a ray of sunshine shed on a tragic and fallen clan, he has now been dragged down into the murky mire with the rest of his clan. We have been deprived of the pleasure of knowing and cherishing the memory of one single solitary Good, kind hearted and Normal Uchiha.

    True enough that this is merely a Manga, but I would argue that literature should attempt to reflect some goodness and some hope. If the Uchiha are a metaphor for a minority Clan/group, there should be at least ONE of them who we can all hold up in all honesty and earnestly as someone exemplary of good amongst themwhom everyone can safely emulate.

    Obito, that shinny eyed young man who loved rin, and who wanted to protect everyone is gone there is no one left to stand for the Uchiha. I am certain that Sasuke will redeem himself by helping to stop Madara, however I would have preferred that the good memory of Obito would have been left un-tarnished.
    la, Naruto gone wrong. This reveal serves to further Kishi's point. During the Pein Arc, Pein asked Naruto the tough questions. Naruto struggled with the answer and almost lost himself. The Seal, broke. With some mental guidance, Naruto gathered himself and resolved to stand by his morales. However, the "Other Destined Child" did the exact opposite. Chrused under the pressure of guilt for a lost one, he flipped out and started harvesting corpses, giving said corpses piercings, and using those same corpses to control.

    Obito is what happens when Naruto faces pain/pein and cant take it.

    If anything, my "only" complaint is that this was done before with Pein, Jariya, and Naruto.
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  6. #126
    Senior Member Execution's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Final Word on Obito:

    I can't imagine any redeeming value to Kishimoto chosing Obito as the Vilain Tobi.


    Is it the shock or surprise value.....Well it is neither shocking or surprising, many readers have already guessed it for the LAZIEST of reasons such as TOBI +O =OBITO...Lame, Lazy, but not particularly surprising, more like dissapointing.
    To be honest back when the Uchiha massacre was explained I thought that Tobi was an ironic play on the name Tobirama seeing as he was the one who supposedly started actively oppressing the Uchiha during his reign as Hokage. I never even factored Obito in at all as I didn't think that Kishi would resort to anagrams to foreshadow a characters identity. Perhaps the reason that I am not at all upset as everyone else at the lack of depth of Obito has a villain is that I am simply mortified that he was selected by Kishi to become Tobi in the first place and don't hold any high standards. As of this moment Kamui seems to be his only redeeming quality. I don't know what sort of ingenious machinations Kishi has plotted out but my mind can't make sense of this situation at all too many holes to fill with not enough info.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Aga bomBa View Post
    Oooh, I've never meant to say that he was like " Naruto "?> I said; what he has done with " Naruto when he was born ".. throwing him in the air, trying to stab him and putting explosive tag on his ass that scenario..
    I see, my mistake then.

  8. #128
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Dummies - "obito turned evil/villain/butthurt because his notgirlfriend died."

    Right ons - "obito lost hope in a world where rins die, friends and heroes fail, and sacrifices are made in vein. Nobody's rin should die and no hero should be needed"

    Read thread after getting home from work, all the crying foul over the timeline but have yet to see anyone correctly show where it's messed up ANYWHERE from all of this.

    Events unfold like this..

    Madara survives VOTE, dupes konaha and escapes with hashirama's sneezed upon handkerchief (senju DNA). Madara appears in earth country before the tsuchikage and conducts some biz with muu and a then young dustball dynamo. Madara activates rinnegan. Madara has his rinnegan implanted into child nagato ( by orochimaru most likely, beside the point). Madara becomes a masked man, a long haired masked man with one eye hole and awesome fire graphics to appeal to the youth audience he tries to reach. Before the final hair sprouts upon nagato's chest the platform for akatsuki is established. Madara is a sly fox. Also, madara hits up the mizukage for some biz. Next event is madara scooping up obito soup and rearing him into madara style empty promise insincere fake justice, the kind naruto will prevent. Obito attempts to steal the 9 tails, gets spanked by minato and then retreats. Minato suspects madara, was half right. A few years later itachi senses madara's presence in konaha, the real madara, NOT TOBI. Remember, itachi explains to sasuke that he met the real madara (itachi's flashback was of him meeting long haired masked man), and going as far to decorate the statement by proclaiming the person both proud and immortal. Itachi also says he encountered the pathetic shell of his former self madara, which we al know now to be obito.

    With obito masquerading as madara, taking credit for madara's deeds which occurred before he, obito, was born. How can you twist a character's obvious and intended deception into "A-HA! OBITO WASN'T BORN YET SO HOW COULD HE HAVE POSSIBLY GIVEN NAGATO THE RINNEGAN? ! HE SAID HE DID IT BUT IT'S IMPOSSIBLE! !"

    There is absolutely zero need for any further mystery masked men to fill in gaps. There is no dilation or convulsion of time to account for events in the order they happened (we aren't discussing the itachi timeline here, which WAS with errors).

    And as for lingering bewilderment trying to make sense of obito's transformation; i have one thing to say, "LOOK AT WHO IS NOW STANDING NEXT TO HIM, CALLING HIM BY HIS NAME!!!!!!"

    ANY answer you need to digest or figure out obito's situation all standing right next to obito at the end of chapter 600 and it's ONE MAN.

    As for plot holes, what plot holes? I really think i might be missing something here, unlike the timeline where i am certain. Most complaints are simply from dissatisfaction with the use of certain literary devices or character development not to their liking but i haven't noticed a plot hole yet for obito-tobi stuff.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  9. #129
    OVER 9000 Riceman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    Dummies - "obito turned evil/villain/butthurt because his notgirlfriend died."

    Right ons - "obito lost hope in a world where rins die, friends and heroes fail, and sacrifices are made in vein. Nobody's rin should die and no hero should be needed"

    Read thread after getting home from work, all the crying foul over the timeline but have yet to see anyone correctly show where it's messed up ANYWHERE from all of this.

    Events unfold like this..

    Madara survives VOTE, dupes konaha and escapes with hashirama's sneezed upon handkerchief (senju DNA). Madara appears in earth country before the tsuchikage and conducts some biz with muu and a then young dustball dynamo. Madara activates rinnegan. Madara has his rinnegan implanted into child nagato ( by orochimaru most likely, beside the point). Madara becomes a masked man, a long haired masked man with one eye hole and awesome fire graphics to appeal to the youth audience he tries to reach. Before the final hair sprouts upon nagato's chest the platform for akatsuki is established. Madara is a sly fox. Also, madara hits up the mizukage for some biz. Next event is madara scooping up obito soup and rearing him into madara style empty promise insincere fake justice, the kind naruto will prevent. Obito attempts to steal the 9 tails, gets spanked by minato and then retreats. Minato suspects madara, was half right. A few years later itachi senses madara's presence in konaha, the real madara, NOT TOBI. Remember, itachi explains to sasuke that he met the real madara (itachi's flashback was of him meeting long haired masked man), and going as far to decorate the statement by proclaiming the person both proud and immortal. Itachi also says he encountered the pathetic shell of his former self madara, which we al know now to be obito.

    With obito masquerading as madara, taking credit for madara's deeds which occurred before he, obito, was born. How can you twist a character's obvious and intended deception into "A-HA! OBITO WASN'T BORN YET SO HOW COULD HE HAVE POSSIBLY GIVEN NAGATO THE RINNEGAN? ! HE SAID HE DID IT BUT IT'S IMPOSSIBLE! !"

    There is absolutely zero need for any further mystery masked men to fill in gaps. There is no dilation or convulsion of time to account for events in the order they happened (we aren't discussing the itachi timeline here, which WAS with errors).

    And as for lingering bewilderment trying to make sense of obito's transformation; i have one thing to say, "LOOK AT WHO IS NOW STANDING NEXT TO HIM, CALLING HIM BY HIS NAME!!!!!!"

    ANY answer you need to digest or figure out obito's situation all standing right next to obito at the end of chapter 600 and it's ONE MAN.

    As for plot holes, what plot holes? I really think i might be missing something here, unlike the timeline where i am certain. Most complaints are simply from dissatisfaction with the use of certain literary devices or character development not to their liking but i haven't noticed a plot hole yet for obito-tobi stuff.
    +5 internet points

  10. #130
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riceman View Post
    +5 internet points
    Why, thank you, good sir! 15 more and I earn a free 22oz slushee.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

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