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  1. #101
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    @Aga, wait, are you saying that the "Goofy" Personality was Izuna ? I guess we never even seen him talking or anything like that :p. Still, for a devoted peace-lover to turn so evil, I think it is more reasonable for Obito if we assume he was only pretending to be a good boy before Rin, because he knew it was what she wanted (plus the cool act), oh snap there you go Rin, Obito was always sly, he just wasn't as good as he is at it now .

    But really, seeing as some people react, it might be a good move for Kishi, to take the action to SasukexOro field trip.



  2. #102
    Senior Member Execution's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    I think that if it wasn't for the rigged time"line", then there might not have been any or at least not this much debate about Tobi's identity. If you think about it, most issues and arguments were tied to the timeline. Of course, regardless of the timeline inconsistencies, it still would look like there are 2 Tobi's.

    I came up with an idea that could fit some things.

    First, Madara admits that he died not long before awakening the eyes. Second, if the other Tobi is Madara, then obviously he didn't gave all of his eyes to Nagato, or even any. It's possible that he gave him only one, while the other normal one simply reacted like that of the Path's of Pain (This would explain why Both Tobis had only one hole in the mask for the MS). Or, Madara gave Nagato his ORIGINAL eyes, which were revitalized and evolved inside Nagato. This way, Madara could have awakened his own Rinnegan just before the Massacre, which would make sense, because Itachi saw the Real Madara looking at the Tablet and the only reason for that, would be because he could see more than ever before.

    It is extremely strange that we don't see any of the Zetsus before the Massacre, it really looks like they were created quite recently. Actually, Black Zetsu might have the body of the real Madara, that was simply infused which something to move and be sane the same way as the White One. This would explain as well why Black Zetsu has the capability to even join with the other part, because he already was a partial mix between Uchiha and Senju.

    What's more if my hypothesis is correct, before awakening the Rinnegan that balanced the energies, Madara could have the same deformation on the left side of his face as Obito (make sense since both were infused with Hashirma Power the same way, well before Kabuto touched Madara ;P). This would explain why Kisame recognized Obito as Madara, because you normally don't even think that there could be two sharingan users with the same face deformation.
    When an author introduces a character that we have known about for some time his actions both while in disguise and while not should be able to transition effortlessly into the story without leaving any plot holes and make you understand why certain events took place and how they were possible. Obito just feels too forced almost as if Kishi is neglecting his timeline in favor of pandering when there were various others who could have been Tobi and would never have caused such confusion.

    I am a bit confused by the scaring you mentioned. Obito took a giant rock to the whole right side of his body how would Madara emulate those scars by infusing himself with Hashirama's cells and if the cells would cause such scaring why apply them to your face? Unless your saying that Hashirama dropped a boulder on Madara during their fight?
    Last edited by Execution; 09-05-2012 at 09:56 PM.

  3. #103
    Appearance of Darkness Aga bomBa's Avatar
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    @ Yoru,..bro, you're putting words into my mouth. I LOVE KISHI.. don't get me wrong. Naruto Manga is the best out there, period.

    - But saying that he's " the author, whatever he decides I made up my mind not to complain etc.. " I'm here on a forum to discuss different scenarios, things what you would love to see or not, bringing out theories.. that's the beauty of this Naruto Section. And if you dislike a developement, why NOT saying it! Nothing is perfect, right?

    " The Godfather " is the best film I've ever seen, but there are scenes where I was like; AAAh man, why did you do it like that F.F. Coppola! It's a master piece, without a doubt; but he can't please every person? It's the same with Kishimoto.. there's nothing overreacting in my case, I just feel a little bit disappointed with all the things I've pointed out :(

    But Okey,.. lets move on

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    @Aga, wait, are you saying that the "Goofy" Personality was Izuna ? I guess we never even seen him talking or anything like that :p. Still, for a devoted peace-lover to turn so evil, I think it is more reasonable for Obito if we assume he was only pretending to be a good boy before Rin, because he knew it was what she wanted (plus the cool act), oh snap there you go Rin, Obito was always sly, he just wasn't as good as he is at it now .

    But really, seeing as some people react, it might be a good move for Kishi, to take the action to SasukexOro field trip.
    Hhahaha.. why not m8? Come on; as you've said.. we've never seen Izuna talk, only thing I've read in DATABOOK, was that he had a peace loving personality.

    - Be honest; couple of weeks back, with all the evidence that was spread about the timeline, major twists / scenarios.. didn't you also thought " Izuna inside of Obito's body "? Don't know if you were the one who said it, but I thought that you also believed that it wasn't entirely Obito ( I could be wrong bro, so don't be offended ;P).

    My theory below is still why I think it could've been Izuna anytime;

    2. " No One " identity with Izuna inside of him, makes more sense to me. So far, Madara Uchiha doesn't seems like a person for entrusting his master plan to a boy like Obito.. Madara failed in keeping his clan's men intact with his brother sacrificing his eyes for him, and by making that up.. he brought him back from death when he awakened Rinnegan, told him about his master plan and Izuna has been taking care of that all these time. a Soul transfer into Obito's body ( they both have the same blood type + he's an uchiha ) was a win-win situation for Izuna. Tobi couldn't comprehend the feeling that he got from Naruto's provocation few chapters ago.. those are signs of people who ARE HOLLOW from the inside.

    Once again: the timeline doesn't make sense at all,.. of course: Kishimoto is the real Master here in manipulation and knows a way for putting all the pieces together, but right now for me: I would rather go with the idea of Izuna in Obito's body / partly zetzu, then Obito being ENTIRELY Obito.
    Last edited by Aga bomBa; 09-05-2012 at 09:58 PM.
    ... You're Dead 2 Me Now ...

  4. #104
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Execution View Post
    When an author introduces a character that we have known about for some time his actions both while in disguise and while not should be able to transition effortlessly into the story without leaving any plot holes and make you understand why certain events took place and how they were possible. Obito just feels too forced almost as if Kishi is neglecting the timeline in favor of pandering when there were various others who could have been Tobi and would never have caused such confusion.

    I am a bit confused by the scaring you mentioned. Obito took a giant rock to the whole right side of his body how would Madara emulate those scars by infusing himself with Hashirama's cells and if the cells would cause such scaring why apply them to your face?
    If the time"line" was correct, then it's possible that there would be even less doubt about Tobi = Obito. Perhaps Kishi rigged the timeline on purpose, to fool with people a little and well, you can't really say that it wasn't effective, right ?

    If whole arms from Zetsu can be replaced, then a little face-skin as well, could have been easily replaced or even regenerated seeing as Hashirama had self-healing powers (not to mention that Obito's arms have currently a normal color, they are white only after recent fusion or when they dissipate ?). The only reason it would look as deformed as that, would have been because those are not scars but mutations, similar to the one that Danzou had on his arm and currently Madara on his chest, but with less power thus less deformation compared to them.

    If you think about it, Madara was infused with Hashirama power even before he died. Madara was the one that infused himself thus he would infuse Obito the same way as himself. What's more, all people that were infused with Hashirama power, have showed some kind of deformation/mutation (Beside Yamato aka Tenzou). Not to mention that Kabuto completed Edodara even beyond his prime, by giving him more or simply a more proper Hashirama enchantment. This as well could have, at that time, corrected Madara's face deformation, in similar manner how Edogato was completely revitalized after absorbing 8-tails chakra.

    On the other hand, the face deformation that is covered by Black Zetsu's metal plate, would stay the same (if he has Madara's body). So a this point, another unmasking would be needed to proceed further .

    @Aga, don't worry, I did say something along the lines that with the current rigged timeline, Izuna would have been a more proper Story-wise choice, but Obito would still be more proper Character-wise choice . Beside, it's fun to guess. Even if Obito was more probable, the Izuna one wasn't that much less ;P. Not to mention that using both of them could have been a good way to make the impact on the characters as well as the story .



  5. #105
    首はねスレイマン Saiges's Avatar
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    Damn this chapter sucked ass even worse than last week's.
    Since Madara appeared, i'm sure the scene will switch to someone else next week, probably Sasuke.
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  6. #106
    Senior Member Execution's Avatar
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    Interesting direction but it seems kinda overly convenient for a deformation to scar Madara's face in the same manner as Obito's just to blur the distinction between the two. Plus even with scars Madara's face still has specific features that Obito's doesn't such as the tear troughs under his eyes I can't help but feel that Kisame would notice this after all Tobi had to apologize to Kisame for not telling him who he was implying that they were once good allies. I feel that I am more comfortable with the Idea that Obito simply used Genjutsu to make his face appear to look like Madara's for a brief moment in order to gain Kisame's trust.

  7. #107
    Senior Member Temperjoke's Avatar
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    You know, Obito doesn't see himself as being evil. He's trying to create a perfect world, no conflict, no loved ones lost, no need to sacrifice your friends...sounds like something the young Obito might want, if he had lost his faith in his strength to save his friends. After all, he entrusted the thing that was most precious in his life to Kakashi, his closest friend, and Kakashi "betrayed" that trust by letting Rin die (allegedly, since we haven't seen that in the manga). With Rin's death, there is a good chance he became suicidal, but that could have easily been twisted by Madara, combining Obito's lack of caring whether he lives or dies with his sense of protection, and you get a figure willing to do anything to permanently solve the problems of the world.

    So yeah, I can see it happening.

    This chapter did two things for me. One it confirmed that Tobi was Obito. Secondly, that Madara survived a long time after his fight with the 1st Hokage, given the length of time between the 1st Hokage's death, and the Kakashi Gaiden, since he knew Obito.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Execution View Post
    More was expected of Tobi because he was the big bad, the final boss, etc. He was the man who formed Akatsuki and Orchestrated most of the unfortunate events within the story as such his fall to the darkside was expected to be more tragic than it now seems. People are upset because it didn't do him justice as until now he was quite the competent villain.
    I just don't see how it's inadequate. He suffered a devastating loss, not to mention being a perpetual failure, and was probably in the right frame of mind from both of those aspects to be won over to a nihilistic worldview. I just fail to see how that's not good enough. Does he have to be like raped repeatedly while watching his parents die to have good enough motivation or something? Losing someone precious was good enough for Nagato/Pain, and he was like the most powerful villain at the time.

    honestly, sometimes I think Kishimoto can't win no matter what he does.

  9. #109
    I'll be waiting, be sure. Yoru's Avatar
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    @Aga Bomba

    Of course, I love to discuss stuff here and various scenarios as well. My reaction to your post was probably due to me prefering short and eloquent comments. I dunno why but I just can't stand ppl making fun of Obito and discarding Rin as being just a girl like any other... Maybe cuz Obito was always my hero and Rin is the sweetest and cutest girl in narutoverse. I can sort of symphatyze with Obito...that's why it's easier for me to understand his change (even though there has to be more to it, like madara's methods while brainwashing him. I think madara could have done a lot more bad influence over obito than just rin's death itself).
    We're in a situation where he's most likely Obito, so we must now try and discuss the most interesting scenario of him becoming evil. There should be cool revelations. Or at least I think so :/
    ANother way Obito could have become so heartless and sly is: Obito tried to embrace Madara's philosophy and plans, but his feelings always got in his way making him "too soft" for his purposes, so he asked madara, or madara himself decided, to wipe all his feelings from his heart thanks to intensive genjytsu, leaving room only for his love for Rin and the despair he faced, so that he would be a heartless bastard ready for everything.

    If I were kishi..do you know what would I have done with Rin's death to make it more tragic? I'd make kakashi kill her, just like this:

    Rin gets blackmailed by danzou to go on a root mission and heal his shinobi. He makes her wear a mask and cloak. The mission itself, tho' was so cruel, and so un-moral that the hokage decided to stop Danzou by sending a bunch of his own anbu, including kakashi. Kakashi woldn't know Rin was involved in all that, so he goes and finds Danzou's platoon first, so he fights them alongiside yamato or someone else from ANBU. Kakashi tries to chidori one of them, but the masked Rin runs between them yelling: "Stop! They're konoha shinobies, just like us! You can't just kill them!". But it's too late, as kakashi has gained speed and pierces trough Rin, wounding her to death. And she dies in his own arms.
    Like this Obito would undergo a double trauma: Rin's dead and the one who promised to look after her, killed her insetad.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Aga bomBa View Post
    That's my point!! His way with Naruto when he was born and all the other stuff, it just doesn't fits into the picture like it should. It didn't do any justice for me, that's all.
    Just because he was exactly like Naruto doesn't mean he was incorruptible. Hell, even Naruto had some darkness inside him for a while. Anyone can go bad under the right circumstances. It wouldn't have taken much for Naruto to end up where Obito is now: Some devastating circumstances and a bad influence or two and we'd have Naruto as the big bad right now. I think it makes a lot of sense thematically.

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