Naruto 600 Discussion / 601 Predictions

[Rlinfamous]

Obito was a cool hero character. He was a lot like Naruto, but wasn't as dumb/talentless. He's an Uchiha, so he naturally has the potential to become very powerful. He was taught both by Minato and by Madara. So obviously he has the necessary background to become powerful. Obviously the 1-year timeskip (I'm guessing it'll be explained that it was longer than this in Kishi's recently-rewritten Manga Timeline) is a bit brief to bring Obito to the level of power he had at the Kyuubi attack, but it doesn't surprise me that he got that strong. Itachi and Sasuke could have been far stronger than Obito if they had the same tools at their disposal (Hashirama-enhanced body, Gedo Mazou, Rinnegan in one eye, Bijuu/Paths as tools, an army of Zetsu)... Obito is just clinging to the powers that Madara created and Aktasuki accumulated.

The personality transformation is extreme, I'll admit. Obito was very direct and honest, whereas Tobi has always been extremely manipulative and deceitful. Tobi also displays extremely high levels of intelligence, although much of that could be because of how many secrets he's been exposed to (being at the heart of Akatsuki and one of Madara's close confidants). I could understand Obito becoming as evil as Tobi, given Madara's influence + Obito's harsh "death" + Rin's death. That's a lot for a kid at 13 to handle; Obito probably just couldn't come to terms with it. It's Tobi's sly nature that I can't see Obito developing, especially not within one year.

I look forward to where Kishi goes from here, and what role Obito will play now that Boss Madara is back in the picture and the Tobi mask is broken. I'll need a lot of explanation (re-writing) from Kishi to be satisfied (sort of), but I believe we can move past the unoriginal storytelling and shoddy timeline.

[ReMaKe]

Haven't posted here in a while. Anyways,

Why all the hate towards Obito and his reason for becoming evil?

I"m guessing few people here have loved someone ( Be In love with someone ) and I'll guess fewer have lost that loved one.

In today's world people lose a loved one everyday, and everyone deals about it differently, some just become depressed some move on, some commit suicide and then every once in a while some will seek out revenge, revenge to the world for taking from them something they loved, and they go and kill people, it's not rare to hear someone killed someone cause of a loved one.

We've had massacres done, now imagine what it'd be like if those people in the real world who kill people everyday cause they lost someone, had the abilities you have in the narutoverse. That plus Madara adding fuel to the fire.

Don't see how most of you don't understand it.

But, hope they show Sasuke and Oro next chapter!

[Execution]

I think that I rather like the notion that Obito could have some form of multiple personality disorder. I think that if it's possible to seal a part of oneself inside a person like how Minato sealed himself and Kushina inside Naruto that perhaps Madara could have used it in a malignant manner and sealed a part of himself inside Obito and actually fought Minato himself within Obito's Zetsu altered body.

[aggeroff]

I'm glad so many people have cooled down since last weeks reviel, it make this discussion seem much more friendly ^_^ (though were still going to have to wait a while before it gets entirely calm -_-)

[[JUiCE]]

I'm glad so many people have cooled down since last weeks reviel, it make this discussion seem much more friendly ^_^

Not on my watch, buddy.

Gotta love POW's reactions. He's pretty pissy right now.
Aaand i don't blame him, the story is feeling pretty dragged out at the moment, everything that could be predicted is happening, and with every chapter, it feels like Kishimoto has given up in being creative and is just giving the fans what they want, but not what the story deserves.

And of course, we have wonderful posters like Yoru defending Kishimoto's storytelling, selling it for being nothing but genius. It kind of reminds me of those fans who will like anything that is made/released, just for the reason that they are a fan, all the while letting their opinions and thoughts be affected by fanboyism. Thumbs up to you Yoru, keep on creating Naruto reject characters.

But it's not all bad, I do enjoy reading what Maximo has to say, he seems to chase logic and what SHOULD happen, because it should make sense. And I respect that. I find myself agreeing with more than half of what he says.

And lastly (for this part of my post), gotta enjoy reading what Aga Bomba has to say. With his "PATHEFETIC" grammar and spelling. I lose IQ when I read his posts.

(Oh and if you make the mistake of seeing me as a troll, then you're obviously new here)

Now that I covered that, lets see...

Pros:

- The art is nice as always (of course, there's time where Kishi and his crew slack off)

- It's not common to see Kakashi shit bricks, so that was cool I guess

- Tobi's fire jutsu was cool (fuck erryone, I'm still gonna call him Tobi)

- That last panel looked awesome, Tobi and Madara posing all boss like

(I tried to be nice with the Pros, but I couldn't think of any other good things about this chapter. It's rare for me to dislike a Naruto chapter, mainly cause I'm easy to please, but god was this useless)

Cons:
- I could have skipped this chapter and probably the next one and I would still be able to follow the story well. This was honestly a waste of time and effort for Kishimoto and his manga drawing crew. (WHY WE DRAW DIS KISHIMOTO-SAN!? ITS A CRAPUUUU!)

- I'm a guy who enjoys flashbacks, but I think this manga has Family Guy beat for flashbacks (and I don't like FG lol)

- With what I said above this, the flashback in this chapter was pointless, as it showed nothing new. Maybe two or three new lines from the past, but nothing that would change the story. Pointless.

- I'm still trying to get used to Tobi being Obito, so I still find it stupid, and like POW said, "So much for Tobi being the final villain hes been demoted and hes next on Naruto's Hug-no-jutsu". Dammit POW you better not be right, because that will be the most stupidest thing to ever happen in manga history.

- Adding to how pointless this chapter was, it didn't even do good at answering "is Tobi really Obito". Yeah okay, Madara called him Obito, but really, are we going to settle for Madara calling him that and just believe that's that? Hmm..no, sorry.

- And finally, If I hadn't been reading this damn manga for years now, then I would have dropped it already. It's feeling dragged again, and this time, with some retarded illogical happenings. Honestly, it feels like Kishimoto is just giving the fans what they want/suspected, which is Tobi being Obito, and the whole love crap.

EDIT:

Forgot to add something to the con list:

- The fact that it's the 600th chapter and it sucked? Letdown.

[Genesis 1.0]

I still say Obito & Zetsu bear a striking resemblance. The color based ifferences in the hair / eyes are simply there to throw ya off.

Not on my watch, buddy.

Gotta love POW's reactions. He's pretty pissy right now.
Aaand i don't blame him, the story is feeling pretty dragged out at the moment, everything that could be predicted is happening, and with every chapter, it feels like Kishimoto has given up in being creative and is just giving the fans what they want, but not what the story deserves.

And of course, we have wonderful posters like Yoru defending Kishimoto's storytelling, selling it for being nothing but genius. It kind of reminds me of those fans who will like anything that is made/released, just for the reason that they are a fan, all the while letting their opinions and thoughts be affected by fanboyism. Thumbs up to you Yoru, keep on creating Naruto reject characters.

But it's not all bad, I do enjoy reading what Maximo has to say, he seems to chase logic and what SHOULD happen, because it should make sense. And I respect that. I find myself agreeing with more than half of what he says.

And lastly (for this part of my post), gotta enjoy reading what Aga Bomba has to say. With his "PATHEFETIC" grammar and spelling. I lose IQ when I read his posts.

(Oh and if you make the mistake of seeing me as a troll, then you're obviously new here)

Now that I covered that, lets see...

Pros:

- The art is nice as always (of course, there's time where Kishi and his crew slack off)

- It's not common to see Kakashi shit bricks, so that was cool I guess

- Tobi's fire jutsu was cool (fuck erryone, I'm still gonna call him Tobi)

- That last panel looked awesome, Tobi and Madara posing all boss like

(I tried to be nice with the Pros, but I couldn't think of any other good things about this chapter. It's rare for me to dislike a Naruto chapter, mainly cause I'm easy to please, but god was this useless)

Cons:
- I could have skipped this chapter and probably the next one and I would still be able to follow the story well. This was honestly a waste of time and effort for Kishimoto and his manga drawing crew. (WHY WE DRAW DIS KISHIMOTO-SAN!? ITS A CRAPUUUU!)

- I'm a guy who enjoys flashbacks, but I think this manga has Family Guy beat for flashbacks (and I don't like FG lol)

- With what I said above this, the flashback in this chapter was pointless, as it showed nothing new. Maybe two or three new lines from the past, but nothing that would change the story. Pointless.

- I'm still trying to get used to Tobi being Obito, so I still find it stupid, and like POW said, "So much for Tobi being the final villain hes been demoted and hes next on Naruto's Hug-no-jutsu". Dammit POW you better not be right, because that will be the most stupidest thing to ever happen in manga history.

- Adding to how pointless this chapter was, it didn't even do good at answering "is Tobi really Obito". Yeah okay, Madara called him Obito, but really, are we going to settle for Madara calling him that and just believe that's that? Hmm..no, sorry.

- And finally, If I hadn't been reading this damn manga for years now, then I would have dropped it already. It's feeling dragged again, and this time, with some retarded illogical happenings. Honestly, it feels like Kishimoto is just giving the fans what they want/suspected, which is Tobi being Obito, and the whole love crap.

Genesis 1.0 Thanks Da Juice For this Post. #Swag

[aggeroff]

Ha ha ha XD, ah well, back to waiting for it to cool down more =P.

[Zero]

I think that if it wasn't for the rigged time"line", then there might not have been any or at least not this much debate about Tobi's identity. If you think about it, most issues and arguments were tied to the timeline. Of course, regardless of the timeline inconsistencies, it still would look like there are 2 Tobi's.

I came up with an idea that could fit some things.

First, Madara admits that he died not long before awakening the eyes. Second, if the other Tobi is Madara, then obviously he didn't gave all of his eyes to Nagato, or even any. It's possible that he gave him only one, while the other normal one simply reacted like that of the Path's of Pain (This would explain why Both Tobis had only one hole in the mask for the MS). Or, Madara gave Nagato his ORIGINAL eyes, which were revitalized and evolved inside Nagato. This way, Madara could have awakened his own Rinnegan just before the Massacre, which would make sense, because Itachi saw the Real Madara looking at the Tablet and the only reason for that, would be because he could see more than ever before.

It is extremely strange that we don't see any of the Zetsus before the Massacre, it really looks like they were created quite recently. Actually, Black Zetsu might have the body of the real Madara, that was simply infused which something to move and be sane the same way as the White One. This would explain as well why Black Zetsu has the capability to even join with the other part, because he already was a partial mix between Uchiha and Senju.

What's more if my hypothesis is correct, before awakening the Rinnegan that balanced the energies, Madara could have the same deformation on the left side of his face as Obito (make sense since both were infused with Hashirma Power the same way, well before Kabuto touched Madara ;P). This would explain why Kisame recognized Obito as Madara, because you normally don't even think that there could be two sharingan users with the same face deformation.

[Aga bomBa]

Obviously the 1-year timeskip (I'm guessing it'll be explained that it was longer than this in Kishi's recently-rewritten Manga Timeline) is a bit brief to bring Obito to the level of power he had at the Kyuubi attack, but it doesn't surprise me that he got that strong.

..IF HE got that strong in the end, you're totally right. But not in one year.. he only had his Kamui, chains in his hands and summoned Kyuubi. No Rinnegan in one of his sockets or any other strong tool he had gained later on in the manga.

The personality transformation is extreme, I'll admit.

That's my point!! His way with Naruto when he was born and all the other stuff, it just doesn't fits into the picture like it should. It didn't do any justice for me, that's all.

I could understand Obito becoming as evil as Tobi, given Madara's influence + Obito's harsh "death" + Rin's death. That's a lot for a kid at 13 to handle; Obito probably just couldn't come to terms with it. It's Tobi's sly nature that I can't see Obito developing, especially not within one year.

I can't.. speaking off " harsh ", Naruto,Sasuke, Gaara, Nagato or even Zabuza had it more harsh then him, and we don't even know if he " died " or was " saved " immediately. And lets go with the assumption that " Rin " wouldn't die.. then what?

- So by Madara's influences and on the edge of almost " dying ", he still would've turned out to be like this? Last weeks chapter and this chapter showed us that " Rin's " death was the major twist in turning so evil. It wouldn't even suprise me if Madara was the one who killed or made people kill Rin, so that Obito would follow his orders. But then again; why should someone of Madara's level have trouble in turning Obito over to the darkside??

All his words about " entrust " and the ones " entrusted with " are all meant towards Kakashi.. only thing that Madara probably did was manipulate the darkness inside of him: his " hope " in Kakashi for protecting Rin ( he failed) and eventually the pain of his loss ( Rin's death ) became his major turn to the darkside; a manipulation technique that he has been using on other people ( sasuke, nagato ).

My major problems are the scenarios of timeline, his major jump of " Obito " to " Tobi " level and of course; the simplicity of Tobi just being Obito. Maybe this impact needs to sink in for me right now.

What I hope is Tobi to be taken care off.. I mean it. With Madara Uchiha the real game can finally begin. There's no need for him to show his powers ( even with rinnegan ) he hasn't showed it till now and Madara has both eyes of Rinnegan, so let Kakashi deal with Tobi, OR Madara just thanks Tobi for everything he has done and kills him off. Tobi is already in a " No-One " personality and with the true Master in the picture, he can leave the stage.
Let Sasuke hear the truth and go right towards the battlefield,.. because all the Rookie 9 are gathering together and going towards Naruto, Kakashi and Gai. The question is; Will Orochimaru go with him to the battlefield??

- He said that he didn't had interest in the war, but I can't see him waiting for the war to end. Orochimaru was different when Sasuke revived; the way he looked to Kabuto and saved him from that chakra, it looked like he had empathy with Kabuto. Has he changed, or not??

" the man who knows everything " is probably going to be a far more bigger reveal then Tobi's identity.

** Wanna know what would be funny?

Madara; " I see you're having some fun, Obito! "
Izuna; " Nii-san, finally.. you're here. I made Obito play a little with his old friends, it's his body afterall; he deserved this little moment. What took you so long? "
Madara; " pathefetic * facepalm *, these kages from now, just so boring and weak.. "
Izuna; " hahah, tell me about it. Shall we begin? "
Madara; " Why not, I'm bored anyway "

[Yoru]

@ Yoru..

It's hard to understand if you don't feel like I and many other do. It was the build up to.. how Tobi was represented, how big his influences were on the shinobi world and of course: the last part of Naruto Manga. This story ends after this war, this event is the " climax " of the story. His reasoning is something what could/should have happened way back in the beginning, a side-villain.. it would be perfect then, but right NOW: it's a shame.

- You can't say it wasn't only " RIN ", he himself clarifies it and of course; by reading this chapter, it was all clear why that whole chapter of flashbacks from LAST WEEK. Rin was in the spotlights last week, and right now:

Obito: " I leave Rin,.. to you "
Obito: " wether *I* survived is not important. However, Yeah.. IF YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHY,.. IT'S BECAUSE YOU LET RIN DIE! "
Spoiler!


That page above, says it all. " The darkness " inside of him that you speak off, was his " loss " of RIN and his " faith " in Kakashi.. Madara has played that part and took it captive for winning his trust. Even thinking about it: maybe Madara didn't even did try that hard for convincing him.. like you said: Obito had hope for so many things, but didn't achieve anything. This could be his major jump to the darkness of HOLLOW, but in my EYES: it's very weak to make HIM " the biggest " mysterie of Naruto Manga.

- I even found it very lame that Madara Uchiha chose him for taking on his Master Plan.. someone of his calibur putting everything in the hands ( like you said ) weak person who cried all the time, had big hopes but didn't achieve anything. " POWER " is everything for Madara Uchiha, so even that part of him entrusting his ressurection in Obito's hands is for me, very poor writing.

And you're speaking of him facing lots of " failures " like he has lived and breath 30 years like Kakashi.. he was 11-13 years old, he had yet to begin facing the true world, true loss and all the responsiblity that comes along with it. The " PAIN AND LOSS " that Naruto, Sasuke, Gaara, Nagato and even ZABUZA in a far more younger age,had faced more painfull and cruelevents then Obito.

So, basically,.. if RIN didn't DIE, he wouldn't do all of these stuff. It was from the beginning Madara's Master Plan that he carried out, but the person who carried it out " Tobi ", the msyterie that was build around him needed to have a WOW factor. A revelation that should've suprised us all, a epic plot twist that should make us all like; Unbelieveable, that Madara is a sickfuck etc.
IF TOBI was his;

1. Izanagi creation ( with Madara's knownledge), with partly Zetzu ( EPIC! " No- One "; that cruel, heartless actions would be more fitting )
2. Izuna in Obito's body, partly Zetzu ( EPIC! )

.. OR even something entirely different, but better then just Obito=Obito. I mean: you could every little detail, but is how the world is.. and Naruto is going to stop that circle. If it wasn't for Kakashi, he would have died immediately by that attack that destroyed Kakashi's eye. If it wasn't for Kakashi, he coudn't even died by giving a present to Kakashi and holding Rin's hand for the last few seconds with her shedding tears for him. On top of that; EVEN IF HE COULD CONFESS his love to her, she wouldn't except it.. just like Sakura.
Rin LOVED KAKASHI, you know that, right?? It was shown in Kakashi Gaiden.. so what would've happened then; when he would hear from her that she didn't love him at all?? He would be all like; ooohh oke, fck the world, I BLAME THE WORLD for why she doesnt love me!

This all tiny details is what I mean with; " not fitting " as a Akatsuki leader, BADASS ViLLAIN who made Minato sacrifice his and wife's soul, by putting half kyuubi inside of Naruto.. A NEEDED POWER FOR KILLING " TOBI ". Tobi, with his reasons and history,.. wanting Sasuke that badly and made Itachi prepare all those stuff for keeping sasuke away from him.. the WHOLE PICTURE is just simple LAME.

** By reading the last part that you've edited,.. it's pointless for explaining my thoughts, and sorry; I need to " COOL IT? " If I don't like it, then I don't like it.. that's what this forum is all about. You're talking about a TINY THING, it's not a tiny thing for me, it's a MAJOR THING.. that's probably what you're missing. This is NEAR THE END of the manga, it should be more then this after waiting 5 years for him to reveal his true identity. Don't like my post, don't fuckin react to it bro,.. that simple.

You want me to accept that Tobi = Obito? How can I not accept that.. it's a fact. But the way it was build up, was less intresting then I thought that It would be.

It's way too obvious I'll never understand the lots of you who don't like it this way....cannot do anything about it, so ok. I won't say anything against you anymore. But I still thing you're overreacting. It's a manga, and its righteous author is Kishi. Whatever he decides I made up my mind not to complain, no matter how much i disliked a developement. He's not a dumb author. He has shown us he can make good plots, so let's have fath in his skills and just wait till he reveals us something more.

He said "it's because you let rin die"...but that doesen't change the fact it's just the starting point of his decsent into darkness..an episode that changed everything.

Let's not talk about this anymore...I'll enjoy this developement with those who like it...and you just discuss your point of view with ppl who don't like it. I don't want to start another argument, so the best way is not to quarrel over it.