Naruto 598 Discussion / 599 Predictions

[knife eater]

Can tobi be obito because obito is azuna? Didn't zero have a row with zero Phoenix about izuna possible knowing soul transference Ala orochimaru? Is that what some people were suggesting? Izuna became or took possession of a young uchiha?

Hmmm, well, i guess if izuna has the suggested victim angle then obito was his attempt to find the next generations redeemed or changed better, beyond the conditions which allowed for his personal tragedies as madaras brother. Also, it was a convenient way to keep close to the 9 tails by becoming the subordinate of the jinchuriki's spouse. Other than those 2 reasons i can't find myself getting too excited at the wild idea. It does strengthen the probability of madara orochimaru ties even more than before with so many codependent facts, overlapping of jutsu functionality, and ofc dual purpose experimentation to grant each the same powers but for different and possibly opposed reasons.

[paulbee]

Can tobi be obito because obito is azuna? Didn't zero have a row with zero Phoenix about izuna possible knowing soul transference Ala orochimaru? Is that what some people were suggesting? Izuna became or took possession of a young uchiha?

Hmmm, well, i guess if izuna has the suggested victim angle then obito was his attempt to find the next generations redeemed or changed better, beyond the conditions which allowed for his personal tragedies as madaras brother. Also, it was a convenient way to keep close to the 9 tails by becoming the subordinate of the jinchuriki's spouse. Other than those 2 reasons i can't find myself getting too excited at the wild idea. It does strengthen the probability of madara orochimaru ties even more than before with so many codependent facts, overlapping of jutsu functionality, and ofc dual purpose experimentation to grant each the same powers but for different and possibly opposed reasons.

See, KE. If Tobi is not Obito, why would he (or anybody for that matter, even Oro), want to use Obito's body that has been crushed under rocks. The only thing valuable about Obito after the rock fall, was his eye. As proof of this, Tobi who posseses Obito's eye is made from Zetsu parts, either because he found no use for Crushed Obito parts, or he isn't Obito to start with.

Frankly, Tobi is in a very good place, he has a Boatload full of Uchiha Eyes, and he has lots of Hashirama cells. The only questionable part of his stratedgy is whether mixing Hashirama's cells with plant cells has some detriment to it.

[Execution]

The Main issue I have with the Obito theory is that it doesn't fit rationally on the timeline whether it be Izuna in his body or simply Obito either way doesn't offer much evidence to rationalize it. First when Obito fought Minato he was in the body of an adult exactly the same height as Minato if not taller.

Spoiler!

Yet here Kakashi and the other Chunnin?(Possibly Genin?) who would be the same age as Obito were too young to be even considered to fight for the village when the Kyuubi attacked.

As for Madara knowing or being affiliated with Orochimaru that is also an impossibility due to Edo Tensei which is a jutsu that revives you in the exactly state you were before death meaning that if Madara survived long enough to meet with Orochimaru he would have been even older than Danzou was before he died.

Spoiler!

Spoiler!

Edo Tensei did no such favor to Nagato by granting him good health or granting Raikage youth so why should Madara be any different?

If anyone could have had ties with Orochimaru it would have been Tobi and as @paulbee said why take the broken body of an Uchiha child? Obito was born before the Uchiha Massacre so there was no shortage of bodies should Tobi have required one.

::Edit::
Also there's this.

Spoiler!

Tobi says he has been waiting for this for a long time as if he is an old man yet to Obito it would have only been a relatively few brief years so he would have no right to say that.

[Execution]

Double post bug? First time I have experienced it.

[knife eater]

See, KE. If Tobi is not Obito, why would he (or anybody for that matter, even Oro), want to use Obito's body that has been crushed under rocks. The only thing valuable about Obito after the rock fall, was his eye. As proof of this, Tobi who posseses Obito's eye is made from Zetsu parts, either because he found no use for Crushed Obito parts, or he isn't Obito to start with.

Frankly, Tobi is in a very good place, he has a Boatload full of Uchiha Eyes, and he has lots of Hashirama cells. The only questionable part of his stratedgy is whether mixing Hashirama's cells with plant cells has some detriment to it.

Sorry, paulbee, i was meaning izuna "orochimaruing" himself into a young uchiha, obito, before being crushed. It would have afforded him a new glimpse of comradeship and the sense if justice as it transforms over time in the village. He could have a second chance, should he choose, at a childhood outside the awful experience hew grew up with merely being madara's spare. Or it could have been to stay close to kushina and the nine tails while growing accustomed to the third hokage and minato. I know is very unlikely but zero explaining that orochimaru 's 3 year body switching cycle was itself an incomplete jutsu he did not invent. If prominent or powerful shinobi had used it in the past as zero suggested then izuna is a candidate, especially with everyone faking their deaths. I won't shoehorn in the details of kakashi gaiden supporting the idea because it can be shot down even easier but the idea intrigues me. Again, the idea is izuna possessing obito prior to the events in kakashi gaiden and playing the role. Until he "dies". You can't deny there are things to gain from doing this without drawing attention for being madara's brother/izuna uchiha (presumed dead) but whether its worth the effort or not is questionable.

[knife eater]

The Main issue I have with the Obito theory is that it doesn't fit rationally on the timeline whether it be Izuna in his body or simply Obito either way doesn't offer much evidence to rationalize it. First when Obito fought Minato he was in the body of an adult exactly the same height as Minato if not taller.

Spoiler!

Yet here Kakashi and the other Chunnin?(Possibly Genin?) who would be the same age as Obito were too young to be even considered to fight for the village when the Kyuubi attacked.

As for Madara knowing or being affiliated with Orochimaru that is also an impossibility due to Edo Tensei which is a jutsu that revives you in the exactly state you were before death meaning that if Madara survived long enough to meet with Orochimaru he would have been even older than Danzou was before he died.

Spoiler!

Spoiler!

Edo Tensei did no such favor to Nagato by granting him good health or granting Raikage youth so why should Madara be any different?

If anyone could have had ties with Orochimaru it would have been Tobi and as @paulbee said why take the broken body of an Uchiha child? Obito was born before the Uchiha Massacre so there was no shortage of bodies should Tobi have required one.

::Edit::
Also there's this.

Spoiler!

Tobi says he has been waiting for this for a long time as if he is an old man yet to Obito it would have only been a few brief years so he would have no right to say that.

Obito theorists have shown that your first few points do not stand up. As for edo tensei, you are incorrect claiming it revives you necessarily in the condition just prior to death. Edo madara was even explained by kabuto to be enhanced beyond even the condition he was in his prime. So there are special cases depending on the abilities of the caster.

But there are numerous posts aptly and intelligently refuting your first few points, age, height, waiting for this moment etc. I suggest reading paulbee's obito to tobi transformation thread in the theories section if you want to see the refutations.

Read my quoted post to paulbee saying i meant before obito was crushed. Was a point of fun speculation not a serious theory in the slightest.

[Execution]

Obito theorists have shown that your first few points do not stand up. As for edo tensei, you are incorrect claiming it revives you necessarily in the condition just prior to death. Edo madara was even explained by kabuto to be enhanced beyond even the condition he was in his prime.

But there are numerous posts aptly and intelligently refuting your first few points, age, height, waiting for this moment etc.

I would be quite interested to know why my points are invalid. Also Enhanced does not mean the same thing as restoring the youth and vitality of someone it means that they were modified. In Madara's case with Hashirama's cells which gave him access to Hashirama's abilities after all he was surprised to see Hashirama's face on his chest. After all If Kabuto could restore everyone to their prime would he not have done it for everyone he sent into battle? Nagato would have been much more efficient starting off with if he didn't have to rejuvenate himself towards the end of the fight. Wouldn't it have been better to send all of your pawn's off to fight in their prime?

[knife eater]

I would be quite interested to know why my points are invalid. Also Enhanced does not mean the same thing as restoring the youth and vitality of someone it means that they were modified. In Madara's case with Hashirama's cells which gave him access to Hashirama's abilities after all he was surprised to see Hashirama's face on his chest. After all If Kabuto could restore everyone to their prime would he not have done it for everyone he sent into battle? Nagato would have been much more efficient starting off with if he didn't have to rejuvenate himself towards the end of the fight.

I edited the posy pointing to paulbees theory topic. There is no need to enhance all the edo's and kabuto explained that the jutsu was hard to maintain with so many revived at once. Madara was the only edo kabuto was interested in anyway. Edo madara was his ace and also his main hand. The point is, no matter what state the other edo zombies, the revived person does not necessarily have to return in the state just prior to death. Its a rule, sure, just as needing to kill your best friend to gain mangekyo but there are exceptions and special cases. Edo madara is a special case independent and regardless if any other edo shinobi.

Even we say you are correct, madara could have kept a youthful appearance no matter how long he lived or his enhancements make him look youthful after being revived, after all, that hashirama power is a potent precursor to tsunades own technique of looking like 20 when she is in fact 50+.

Madara's youthful appearance as edo summon has no bearing against any ties with orochimaru.

[Execution]

Wait! I'm a bit confused are you trying to say that my points have become invalidated based on conjecture? The thread you pointed me to the "Theory" thread mind you from the Obito=Tobi side nearly all that exists are what if's and nearly baseless conjecture. You can't refute anything with conjecture it's like saying while Naruto and Killer Bee were on there way to fight Tobi they could have stopped for ramen at a shop they found passing by(How does one argue against could's and maybe's?). Just because a Jutsu exists that gives you the appearance of looking young does that mean that everyone in the Naruto universe knows it? Also when Madara stepped out of the coffin wouldn't he have had to use it?

I was hoping to find evidence used from the manga to actually dismiss my claims but instead I had to suffer through Zero Pheonix's bigotry I truly hope he isn't one of your acclaimed Obito theorists.

Point is you can't dismiss conjecture with conjecture facts must be present therefore nothing I have said has been refuted or invalidated. People can shout all day that Obito is still alive, but neither I, nor you, nor anyone can prove otherwise without proof from the manga. Giving speculated reasons why he might be alive doesn't make it so. I merely gave reasons as to why I believe he is most likely not alive governed by various aspects from the manga.

The one thing I can say for a fact is that Edo Tensei does bring you back how you were the moment you died otherewise explain to me why Deidara's eye was missing when he came back and why Raikage still has the scar from the Bijuu. Also restoring them to their prime if it is possible shouldn't have taken too much effort when they were still in their coffins beforehand, and Edo Tensei itself isn't what Kabuto was talking about.

It was exerting control through the control tags. Edo Tensei is a jutsu that does not end therefore would not drain his chakra continually if it did he would have said there was a drawback to using it not that there wasn't one. Please provide manga evidence with your conjectures next time.

[rinnebadass]

See, KE. If Tobi is not Obito, why would he (or anybody for that matter, even Oro), want to use Obito's body that has been crushed under rocks. The only thing valuable about Obito after the rock fall, was his eye. As proof of this, Tobi who posseses Obito's eye is made from Zetsu parts, either because he found no use for Crushed Obito parts, or he isn't Obito to start with.

Frankly, Tobi is in a very good place, he has a Boatload full of Uchiha Eyes, and he has lots of Hashirama cells. The only questionable part of his stratedgy is whether mixing Hashirama's cells with plant cells has some detriment to it.

because as pure shinobi, someone like Orochimaru (and this tobi guy) is much more gifted than pretty much any uchiha. so if they truly found a new intact sharingan, they could take care of it, make the eye much stronger, instead of having to deal with emo kids.

so it is a possibility.