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  1. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Phoenix View Post
    Intriguing. I'd like to hear more of what you have to say. Do you think we might be dealing with different Tobi's in these episodes?
    In my opinion no, but I don't rule out the possibility. I think old Tobi and new Tobi are the same person and Orochimaru is closely tied to him because it doesn't make sense that we would even see him this arc otherwise. I don't buy into the Obito thing either, but I have not gone back to read the flashbacks with Obito to see. IIRC he was not even remotely similar in personality to what we know as Tobi. However, writing in a new character for Tobi to be at this point in the storyline would just be cheap. Ultimately I hope Orochimaru is involved because I enjoyed how mysterious and unpredictable he was, but we'll see.

    As for the mask statement, I was referring to Tobi's old mask. To me it looks like a stylized cursed seal spreading across the face. Or it could just be a tiger stripe design.

  2. #152
    Senior Member MOTS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by POW View Post
    The other major fact people don think about is how would Obito be able to master his MS in such a short amount of time & to be able to control the fox. Obito only just awakened his basic sharingan at his death. Mastering your sharingan comes first then awakening the MS last. This requires time and training to hone ones skills.

    We know it was only 1 year between the Kakashi Gaiden and the Kyuubi attack.


    Even Itachi a genius who graduated the academy in 1 year took another year to master his sharingan then didn't awake his MS until 5 years later.

    Kakashi another genius had his sharingan for years before being able to awaken the MS.

    Sasuke took nearly half a year to master his basic sharingan and he was in a lot of combat plus he had CS which brought out his power.


    Does it really make sense that Obito could master so much in such little time. Even after awakening the MS it takes time to get used to its power and to master it.
    POW, I have been saying the same thing, but my timeline was off. I thought he Tobi attacked the village 3 to 5 years after the Kakashi gaiden, but you are way more knowlegable at timelines than me. Its hard for me to believe that Obito could go toe to toe with Minato, with according to your timeline 1 year of training also. I noticed something else when Tobi fought Minato, Tobi stated "You live up to the yellow flash moniker". Why would he state that if he was Obito, when I'm sure Obito has trained and seen the FTG technique plenty of times. Obito would already know Minato lives up to his reputation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aga bomBa View Post
    Nope.. but some people believe it does

    - besides that; it's pretty obvious that it was the real Madara who spoke with Itachi and Kisame, and not Tobi. After that, Madara waited to be ressurected by Nagato, so Tobi was his Plan B for manipulating the shinobi world with future vision of world domination.

    1 fuckin year, haha.. if someone of Itachi's calibur can't do it, then who: Obito?!?! Taiming the Kyuubi like it's nothing, murdering baby Naruto, fighting his old teacher without him: A genius once in a decade, not recognizing his former student's style of fighting, having a mature posture from an adult, his knowledge about everything etc....

    two episodes left POW, just let us wait for the WOW factor
    I could not agree more. This is what Jirayai said about him even after training Nagato who had the rinnegan (that was thought by many to be a myth).

    http://www.mangakong.com/manga/Naruto/367/11

    It's hard to believe that Obito could train and plan an attack within a short period of time, but you never know with Kishi. He always seems to find a way!
    Last edited by MOTS; 08-24-2012 at 11:54 PM.
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  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcasex View Post
    ..Sigh noone seems to be addressing the points I threw in there at all...it seems this forum has changed...people want to Demagogue rather than exchange ideas ,points and opinions which last I checked was the purpose of a forum.
    Dude most of these cats have a totally different opinion. They think if they post something with no evidence they're automatically right until Kishimoto writes a letter stating otherwise. It's adorable. They'll never refute a post that proves their theories incorrect. That's how you know you have them cold. Look at how Zero has danced around my arguments all day. Arguments like this one:



    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Phoenix View Post
    He told Kakashi he would show him the true power of the Kamui because he was about to use said technique. If he had been using Kamui the entire time he wouldn't need to point that out. Not only that but if he were using Kamui this entire time, Kakashi and the gang wouldn't have been surprised when he revealed his Mangekyo to them. Or do you expect me to believe he's been using Kamui the whole time and the gang just noticed oh no this guy has an MS. So let me get this straight, his fight with Kakashi and Naruto in the forest, his conversation with Naruto and Kakashi about Sasuke, and the fight they've been having for a couple hours in Naruto-time. So Tobi has been teleporting things and himself all these times but it was just this last chapter they realized he's been using Kamui.

    He insists, no, he somehow KNOWS Tobi has been using Kamui yet he refuses to back up his claims or refute any evidence presented against his ideas. And the moment you prove someone wrong they cry to the mods and say you were picking on them.




    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Zero Phoenix,

    When you butt into a conversation, try to at least understand the subject and premise of the conversation.
    Either refute my arguments or be silent while the adults are talking.




    Quote Originally Posted by twentyseven View Post
    As for the mask statement, I was referring to Tobi's old mask. To me it looks like a stylized cursed seal spreading across the face. Or it could just be a tiger stripe design.
    Hmm, there might be something to that.

  4. #154
    Senior Member MOTS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcasex View Post
    When did they show Tobi around at a time before Obito was born? The 4th Hokage sealing the 9 tails into Naruto happened long after Obito supposedly died.
    Again to reiterate my last point. His power would explain volumes even in terms of his age. Maybe his sharingan can traverse space at less of a cost than it would time. Its possible he can move to different parts of time(within a limitation) with a cost to his body as most strong sharingan powers seem to have.Kisame didnt recognize him as Madara.....he recognized him as the Mizukage. Kisame knowing his identity still has mystery around it as does Mist Villages role in this overall. With everything Tobi said to Sasuke about the history of how Leaf treated the Uchiha clan its clear that Tobi has a skewed view on historical events. He's obviously telling the story from an outsiders perspective possibly as something someone else told him or some other second hand knowledge. My point being Obito could of learned this stuff at some point,did something extreme with his Sharingan Power causing him to Age.
    I like your post, but the only thing with Kisame is, he is the only person that has seen both long hair and short hair Madara/Tobi. He seems to know the same person, but as I have said before Tobi is still a BIG mystery.

    He's obviously telling the story from an outsiders perspective possibly as something someone else told him or some other second hand knowledge. You have given me something to think about, I never thought of it that way. With Tobi this does seem very plausible because of the mystery that surrounds him. An outside view would fit Tobi's character pretty good.
    "RESPECT"

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOTS View Post
    I like your post, but the only thing with Kisame is, he is the only person that has seen both long hair and short hair Madara/Tobi. He seems to know the same person, but as I have said before Tobi is still a BIG mystery.
    This is exactly why Hardcasex said you guys don't share ideas and only post your own. I remember posting at least three times that Kisame could have been in a genjutsu. Like I said before, if Tobi was Madara he wouldn't need to hide it because everyone in the Nartuoverse knows what Madara looks like. It would be as if Tony Stark went through great lengths to hide the fact that he's Iron Man. You don't tend to hide your identity if everyone knows who you are yet Tobi has worn a mask everytime we saw him. The only person who saw his face was Kisame and yes Kisame did call him Madara but who is to say Tobi just didn't use a genjutsu on him? When Tobi showed part of his face to Sasuke he didn't look even remotely like Madara. How can we account for these misdirections?

  6. #156
    Senior Member Nano's Avatar
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    My comment does not have much to do with the manga, but jeaz "Zero Phoenix" you need to dial it back a bit. Making comments to Paul about staying quiet while the adults are talking, whilst acting like a petulant child is going a bit far.

    We get that you think Tobi is Obito, but many of us do not for the reasons listed many times in this thread. Respect that and move on - there is no need to keep insulting people who dont agree with your point of view.
    Quote Originally Posted by [JUiCE] View Post
    The virginity is strong in this one.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nano View Post
    My comment does not have much to do with the manga, but jeaz "Zero Phoenix" you need to dial it back a bit. Making comments to Paul about staying quiet while the adults are talking, whilst acting like a petulant child is going a bit far.

    I decide when things are going far. Not you.



    Quote Originally Posted by Nano View Post
    We get that you think Tobi is Obito, but many of us do not for the reasons listed many times in this thread.
    I don't care about your reasons. Not one of you has been able to refute the mountain of evidence that points to Tobi being Obito. I'll say this once for your convenience and I suggest you pay attention.

    These are the candidates for being Tobi: Obito, Madara, and Izuna.
    So far the evidence points to Obito or Izuna.
    Between the two, there is more evidence pointing to Obito than Izuna.

    I have already proven that it is patently impossible for Izuna to be Tobi in another thread. It's actually more likely for Tobi to be an Uchiha we don't even know than for him to be Tobi. At this point the only options are Obito or an Uchiha we don't know. So you'll excuse me if I don't acknowledge anyone still believing Izuna to be Tobi. That's my point and one I would advise you to acknowledge before you try to play peacemaker when you don't actually know what's going on.

    When the rest of you get serious about debating you know where to find me.

  8. #158
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Phoenix View Post
    . Not one of you has been able to refute the mountain of evidence that points to Tobi being Obito.
    I have by pointing out the timeline and the near impossibility of Obito developing and become some expert tactician and masterful ninja in just 1 year. The fact that Madara entrusted Tobi with his plans and resurrection proves it was someone he is close too & trusts.

    What mountain of evidence do you speak of? Because his hair cut looks the same and knows things about Kakashi?

    Tobi knew things about Itachi as well as the details of the Leaf villages inner council dealing with the Uchiha clan massacre.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Phoenix View Post
    I'll say this once for your convenience and I suggest you pay attention.

    These are the candidates for being Tobi: Obito, Madara, and Izuna.
    So far the evidence points to Obito or Izuna.
    Between the two, there is more evidence pointing to Obito than Izuna.

    I have already proven that it is patently impossible for Izuna to be Tobi in another thread. It's actually more likely for Tobi to be an Uchiha we don't even know than for him to be Tobi. At this point the only options are Obito or an Uchiha we don't know. So you'll excuse me if I don't acknowledge anyone still believing Izuna to be Tobi. That's my point and one I would advise you to acknowledge before you try to play peacemaker when you don't actually know what's going on.

    When the rest of you get serious about debating you know where to find me.
    What argument or evidence do you provide that shows it would be so impossible for Izuna to be Tobi?
    Last edited by POW; 08-25-2012 at 01:26 AM.


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  9. #159
    Senior Member Afro Thunda's Avatar
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    If Kisame was under a genjutsu when he saw Madara/Tobi's face for the first time, I'd find it hard to believe that he would believe Madara/Tobi to be the real deal so quickly. He was just having a mini-existential crisis about living a life of lies before Madara/Tobi showed up. There's no way he wouldn't have any idea of what the Sharingan is capable of, especially when it comes to genjutsu, and he's (supposedly) staring down its strongest user. And then after that, he spent years traveling around with yet another powerful Sharingan genjutsu user, who showcased such ability more often than not.

    I would think he'd have put 2 and 2 together and thought "Just maybe, the guy with the Sharingan eye that I saw with the Mizukage wasn't really who he said he was..." If that were the case, and he did come to that conclusion (we'll never know, but I don't think he did), then it's more likely that the plan outlined back when he saw Madara/Tobi the first time was so appealing to him that he didn't care who it really was in front of him. It was a desirable goal he was willing to work toward to achieve.

  10. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Afro Thunda View Post
    I would think he'd have put 2 and 2 together and thought "Just maybe, the guy with the Sharingan eye that I saw with the Mizukage wasn't really who he said he was..." If that were the case, and he did come to that conclusion (we'll never know, but I don't think he did), then it's more likely that the plan outlined back when he saw Madara/Tobi the first time was so appealing to him that he didn't care who it really was in front of him. It was a desirable goal he was willing to work toward to achieve.
    I think that conclusion is far more plausible than the idea that Kisame 1) Wasn't susceptible to Tobi's Genjutsu in any form or fashion and 2) He knows Madara's correct appearance to the point of recognizing him even after wear and tear/other circumstance that permits him from looking as he did in VotE statue. It would be logical to assume that the latter case, i.e Tobi looking as Madara did in the VotE statue isn't the case because it calls for immediate elucidation. Let me explain that a little better. If many many years after the supposed battle between Tobi/Madara and Hashirama happened, and Madara exhibited no change with his facial features, then I figure that calls for some elaboration, yes? You said yourself that Kisame was going through crisis of lies and what have you. Wouldn't you think that if he saw no wear and tear whatsoever and he wasn't under a genjutsu that he would inquire as to how and why his appearance was the same as was noted many years ago? Yet he didn't. He immediately accepted that it was Madara without any lengthy discourse or explanations. So then that begs the question: how would Kisame know what Madara looked like even with, as we can logically assume, wear and tear, wrinkles, or some other physical attribute that did not make him look as he did in the VotE statue? How would Kisame be aware of such things? (And before someone argues there "wasn't much change even with the wrinkles" note that, in the picture, Tobi didn't even have the same hair as Madara did. Note how Madara's hair drapes down to his shoulders. Tobi's didn't even go down to his face. And even though this is a moot point, note how Tobi looked when he showcased his Sharingan to Sasuke.)

    If you are like I am and assume that Kisame had no means to know such things, then the idea that he fell under some genjutsu, or "perhaps" the fact that Tobi was Izuna (and thus looked like Madara did) is far more plausible than assuming he had such knowledge and wasn't susceptible to any genjutsu.

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