The Tobi/Madara/Obito/ Theories Convo

[paulbee]

The Biggest problem with Tobi = Obito is the Timeline and this:-

Spoiler!

If The above is True, The Tobi Cannot Ever Ever be Obito. Tobi <> Obito.

Now Tobi=Obito fans will rush to claim that Tobi is a liar. Well right now I can't prove his veracity on this matter, but we are getting closer and closer to the truth. We'll find out soon enough.

Also looking at the page below:-

Spoiler!

Kabuto knows that Tobi is not quite exactly literally Madara. Tobi also knows that Kabuto knows. Yet, Tobi INSISTS that the Rinnegans were "Mine to begin with"

Assume for a moment that Tobi is not Lying Lying Lying, actually I don't think he lies much except if it's neccessary to manipulate someone essential. Tobi Could be telling the truth to Kabuto and Konan if:

1) a part of him really is Madara

2) if he is Izuna, the Madara Took his eyes from him, the eyes that became Rinnegans are quite literally Tobi's eyes.

From now on and until the TRUTH comes out, My Chice is Tobi = Izuna ( Or an aspect or piece/part of Madara himself). I hope Kishimoto also explains the matter of Tobi becoming Complete.

[Rlinfamous]

The Biggest problem with Tobi = Obito is the Timeline and this:-

Spoiler!

If The above is True, The Tobi Cannot Ever Ever be Obito. Tobi <> Obito.

Now Tobi=Obito fans will rush to claim that Tobi is a liar. Well right now I can't prove his veracity on this matter, but we are getting closer and closer to the truth. We'll find out soon enough.

Also looking at the page below:-

Spoiler!

Kabuto knows that Tobi is not quite exactly literally Madara. Tobi also knows that Kabuto knows. Yet, Tobi INSISTS that the Rinnegans were "Mine to begin with"

Assume for a moment that Tobi is not Lying Lying Lying, actually I don't think he lies much except if it's neccessary to manipulate someone essential. Tobi Could be telling the truth to Kabuto and Konan if:

1) a part of him really is Madara

2) if he is Izuna, the Madara Took his eyes from him, the eyes that became Rinnegans are quite literally Tobi's eyes.

From now on and until the TRUTH comes out, My Chice is Tobi = Izuna ( Or an aspect or piece/part of Madara himself). I hope Kishimoto also explains the matter of Tobi becoming Complete.

My first thoughts on "Completeness" go to the Moon's Eye Plan, and his assertions that he would be one with everything and thus complete. However, I've also wondered if his powers are limited due to:

-The Zetsu Mr. Potatohead nature of his body and
-The fact that he lacks a complete set of either Rinnegan eyes or Mangekyou (perhaps rendering him unable to perform Susano'o or other, yet unknown, eye techniques).

Personally, with Tobi as he is, I don't believe he can become the Juubi's Jinchuuriki, never minding the hatred that would allow it to consume him.

[Kenny Bones]

I have made my conclusion, we'll see soon enough who Tobi actually is.
But, he does have Obito's crushed body. This is probably why he's got zetsu parts on him. To repair what those boulders crushed previously. Why use Obito's body? Who the hell knows, perhaps he wanted the sharingan power, and that only his original body is most compatible.

So my two cents right now is, he is Izuna's soul in Obito's body, repaired with zetsu parts

[Zero Phoenix]

So my two cents right now is, he is Izuna's soul in Obito's body, repaired with zetsu parts

How did Izuna's soul get inside Obito's body? The technique used to transfer ones soul into another body was created by Orochimaru. Izuna would not have known of such a technique. That fact alone nullifies your theory.

[Kenny Bones]

Ok, he might be anybody then. But he's not Obito percé. Perhaps Madara's mind inside Obito's body or something. Anyway, it seems clear that he actually has Obito's body atleast.

[knife eater]

Just wanted to point out something. Obito is often dismissed as a naruto like flunker who no way could end up being on the level tobi was when fighting minato. Without reposting easy explanations why he can surpass or trade blows with minato I'd like to bring attention to a small detail the manga itself mentions at the beginning of kakashi gaiden.

Konaha was at an all time low militarily as was the fire country as a whole. Minato and kakashi were already known to be elite shinobi and minato was already husband to 9 tails jinchuriki. Kakashi was jonin at 13! Not average or easy even when shinobi are scarce.

There is no way obito would be placed in a team of two of konaha's best and most promising if he were simply a flunky loser. There might be mismatches in lesser squads given so few choices during that time but their best squads will be surely focused on and formed with the least risk of weakest link members.

obito had something special about him that git him into the minato/kakashi squad and as their star ninja's pupil.

It could be obito's blood relatives (neji's prestige owed in part simply fir his family ties) or sharingan powers in his particular lineage. Only the BEST and most promising would be assigned to such a valuable sensei, what was special about obito do you think that landed him as minato's pupil? He didn't even awaken sharingan yet! Whatever ends up being special about him then might very well contribute to why he is also tobi (if that's the case).

[Zero]

How did Izuna's soul get inside Obito's body? The technique used to transfer ones soul into another body was created by Orochimaru. Izuna would not have known of such a technique. That fact alone nullifies your theory.

The only problem is that the "fact" is not a fact at all. Oro didn't create that jutsu, he recovered it from the forbidden scroll the same as Edo Tensei. From what I understood, the information about that jutsu was incomplete within the scroll, thus Oro experimented and finally retrieved some of it's aspects, but the very fact that it has a 3 year limit, is a proof that he was never able to fully recover it, or simply it was always an incomplete jutsu.

The very fact, that it was within the Konoha's secret scroll of forbidden jutsu (that can be even stolen by an academic, not yet, ninja... the white/gray haired chunin must have done some diversion, otherwise this really is stupid ;P), means that there was a Konoha ninja that used this jutsu, or it's one of the jutsu they have stolen from another village.

[Zero Phoenix]

The only problem is that the "fact" is not a fact at all. Oro didn't create that jutsu, he recovered it from the forbidden scroll the same as Edo Tensei. From what I understood, the information about that jutsu was incomplete within the scroll, thus Oro experimented and finally retrieved some of it's aspects, but the very fact that it has a 3 year limit, is a proof that he was never able to fully recover it, or simply it was always an incomplete jutsu.

The very fact, that it was within the Konoha's secret scroll of forbidden jutsu (that can be even stolen by an academic, not yet, ninja... the white/gray haired chunin must have done some diversion, otherwise this really is stupid ;P), means that there was a Konoha ninja that used this jutsu, or it's one of the jutsu they have stolen from another village.

If you have a point you clearly failed in making it. Your argument, if this qualifies as one, does not change the FACT that Izuna would not have known about this technique. Debating details is somewhat fruitless when you've done little to refute for the main point which is, and this will be my third time saying it, Izuna would not have known about the soul transfer. Therefore Izuna couldn't possibly be inside Obito's body. It's "possible" that Izuna is Tobi if he is immortal like his brother. However, it's not "possible" that Izuna is using someone else's body.

[Zero]

If you have a point you clearly failed in making it. Your argument, if this qualifies as one, does not change the FACT that Izuna would not have known about this technique. Debating details is somewhat fruitless when you've done little to refute for the main point which is, and this will be my third time saying it, Izuna would not have known about the soul transfer. Therefore Izuna couldn't possibly be inside Obito's body. It's "possible" that Izuna is Tobi if he is immortal like his brother. However, it's not "possible" that Izuna is using someone else's body.

How can you call it impossible, when there exist a jutsu that allows it and whose creator is unknown ? We don't know who created it, when it was created, we don't even know if the way Oro uses it is the way it was meant to be, or even it's purpose at this point (perhaps it was more about sharing your soul, who knows ?).

The only thing we know is that some details (not all) of that jutsu were stored within Konoha, which isn't much considering ninja were stealing secrets and jutsu from each other since the beginning.

[Zero Phoenix]

How can you call it impossible, when there exist a jutsu that allows it and whose creator is unknown ? We don't know who created it, when it was created, we don't even know if the way Oro uses it is the way it was meant to be, or even it's purpose at this point (perhaps it was more about sharing your soul, who knows ?).

The only thing we know is that some details (not all) of that jutsu were stored within Konoha, which isn't much considering ninja were stealing secrets and jutsu from each other since the beginning.

I'll make this simple. Who would Izuna have learned the technique from? Unless you have an answer to that you don't have much of an argument.