The Tobi/Madara/Obito/ Theories Convo

[???????]

I thought it was shown somewhere in the manga that zetsu reconstructs madaras body when madara gets injured, idk where it is but ill find it. and in the scenes where he loses his arm for example the fight with danzou and root anbu you see white stuff where blood should be gushing out of his arm and as we know zetsu can manipulate his body to copy someones looks and chakra so it wouldnt be hard to make madara new limbs.

[paulbee]

I thought it was shown somewhere in the manga that zetsu reconstructs madaras body when madara gets injured, idk where it is but ill find it. and in the scenes where he loses his arm for example the fight with danzou and root anbu you see white stuff where blood should be gushing out of his arm and as we know zetsu can manipulate his body to copy someones looks and chakra so it wouldnt be hard to make madara new limbs.

I don't recall where Zetsu is shown reconstructing Madara's body per se. However the following seem to be true as I see it:-

1) Madara's body is certainly similar to Zetsu's body
2) Zetsu and Madara both have a wood element (Hashirama's power) based body.
3) Madara's original eyes seem to be lost, or perhaps sacrificed by him to create the Rinnegan.
4) Madara's Original body was damaged by Hashirama. He (I think, still needs it somehow).
5) Madara needs to sync Sasuke up to the Gedou Mazou before he can fully utilize its powers.
6) Madara (as he says) likes to collect good eyes. When he syncs Sasuke (or if he does), he'll certainly keep the extra EMS set for further uses by him.

[DragonZypher]

I don't recall where Zetsu is shown reconstructing Madara's body per se. However the following seem to be true as I see it:-

1) Madara's body is certainly similar to Zetsu's body
2) Zetsu and Madara both have a wood element (Hashirama's power) based body.
3) Madara's original eyes seem to be lost, or perhaps sacrificed by him to create the Rinnegan.
4) Madara's Original body was damaged by Hashirama. He (I think, still needs it somehow).
5) Madara needs to sync Sasuke up to the Gedou Mazou before he can fully utilize its powers.
6) Madara (as he says) likes to collect good eyes. When he syncs Sasuke (or if he does), he'll certainly keep the extra EMS set for further uses by him.

PaulBee, where is the extra EMS coming from? Sasuke and Madara are not close relatives, therefore Madara is unable to use Sasuke's old eyes to supplant is own EMS.

[paulbee]

PaulBee, where is the extra EMS coming from? Sasuke and Madara are not close relatives, therefore Madara is unable to use Sasuke's old eyes to supplant is own EMS.

Remember that Madara has a stock pile of Sharingans, we know that he already blew one out when he used Izanagi. It is reasonable to assume that his stockpile is there so that he can swap used up Sharingans with fresh ones.

Madara does not need to develop a new set of EMS using Sasuke's eys, all he has to do is to Take Sasuke's newly developed EMS by removing Sasuke's eyes. My theory is that if Madara syncs Sasuke to Geddou Mazou, and if syncing somehow involves Messing with Sasuke's will (controlling him), then when Madara has him all used up (just as Nagato was used up) he might remove Sasuke's eyes and save them for a rainy day.

[paulbee]

I think the time is ripe to start wrapping up known facts, and to anticipate answers to Madara's intrigue. Any MOD reading this, please opine as to whether we can start a" Madara, Final answers Thread."

Until then, these are some thoughts and questions. I'd like to invite others to add their own thoughts and questions to mine.

Perhaps it's time we start piecing together the missing parts of Tobi/Madara's plan:

1) When he "died" or was killed by Hashirama:

a) He had transfered his essence into a Zetsu Clone
b) It was a Zetsu Clone that "died" , just as with Kisame.

2) When he spoke about gaining Hashirama's power (in order to become the new Rikudou, which didn't work BTW)????

3) Why haven't we seen his own original MGQ Sharingan ???
a) They were destroyed by Hashirama
b) He's saving them, while using other eyes for his Izanagis

4) What did he really mean about "Giving Nagato the Rinnegan" ???
a) He litterally implanted his originals into Nagato, and used Nagato to incubate them into Rinnegans
b) He merely Manipulated Nagato

[Icho Tolot]

I think the time is ripe to start wrapping up known facts, and to anticipate answers to Madara's intrigue. Any MOD reading this, please opine as to whether we can start a" Madara, Final answers Thread."

Until then, these are some thoughts and questions. I'd like to invite others to add their own thoughts and questions to mine.

Perhaps it's time we start piecing together the missing parts of Tobi/Madara's plan:

1) When he "died" or was killed by Hashirama:

a) He had transfered his essence into a Zetsu Clone
b) It was a Zetsu Clone that "died" , just as with Kisame.

2) When he spoke about gaining Hashirama's power (in order to become the new Rikudou, which didn't work BTW)????

3) Why haven't we seen his own original MGQ Sharingan ???
a) They were destroyed by Hashirama
b) He's saving them, while using other eyes for his Izanagis

4) What did he really mean about "Giving Nagato the Rinnegan" ???
a) He litterally implanted his originals into Nagato, and used Nagato to incubate them into Rinnegans
b) He merely Manipulated Nagato

Ok, here is my thoghts:

1) When he "died" or was killed by Hashirama:

a) He had transfered his essence into a Zetsu Clone

I think just part of his body are Zetsu's, something like Danzou left side.

b) It was a Zetsu Clone that "died" , just as with Kisame.

I don't think so, because he did not know he would lose, he is to pride. Besides that i don't think Zetsu is that old.

2) When he spoke about gaining Hashirama's power (in order to become the new Rikudou, which didn't work BTW)????

We know that he needs both Senju and Uchiha chackra in the same body to become "new Rikudou", but I think we still don't have all the pieces for that riddle.

3) Why haven't we seen his own original MGQ Sharingan ???
a) They were destroyed by Hashirama

I don't think so, maybe he lost just one of his eyes and part of his body.

b) He's saving them, while using other eyes for his Izanagis

I think he still have part of his power, the time jutsu he's use, is his MGQ Sharingan but is just part of the jutsu( like if Sasuke had lost 1 eye and have just amaterasu but can't control because lost the right eye).

4) What did he really mean about "Giving Nagato the Rinnegan" ???
a) He litterally implanted his originals into Nagato, and used Nagato to incubate them into Rinnegans
b) He merely Manipulated Nagato

That I think is one more of Madara's lies, I believe if that much, he just manipulated Nagato.

[paulbee]

The More I think about it, the more convinced I am of some of my ideas above.

1) Uchiha Madara hatched his Moon's Eye plan WAY BACK in Hashirama's day.
2) He needed the Rinnegan, and for that he needed Hashirama Senju's Genes
3) He decided to challenge Hashirama in battle, and collect some DNA from their mutual blood letting
4) He Knew that he could die, but he had a back-up plan for that
5) Madara creates a backu up plan, using a Zetsu Clone that will carry out his plan if he should die in the battle
6) The Zetsu clone has Madara's Chakra and some random Uchiha Eyes.
7) The Plan was for the Zetsu Clone of Madara to Infuse itself with Hashirama's DNA, and using Madara's Chakra and spiritual energy, it was supposed to evolve a Rinnegan, with the Rinnegan the clone was supposed to revive Madara (only if he got killed in the fight, else Madara would do all this himself.
8) The fight happened, Madara lost, the Zetsu Clone Madara got Hashirama's DNA, everything seemed to be going according to plan.....except.

9) Something went wrong, The Zetsu Clone COULD NOT evolve a Rinegan, and Madara stays Dead. The senju DNA from Hashirama was not enugh, the Rinnegan Process probably required a living being with the strong Chakra of a living powerfull Senju or better still an UZUMAKI, and that person must be under Duress to force the evolution to happen. This just like the Mangekyou Sharingan requires a strong emotional event for it to evolve.

10) The zetsu Clone began to act independently, but having been made from Uchiha Madara's spiritual energies and Chakra, it went ahead and plotted to complete Madara's original plan.

So Tobi is Madara in every way that counts, his knowledge, his desires, his will, but he is not the original Madara.

SO where's the original Madra? Answer is, he's dead and Kabuto has the body. He may even have revived it but kept it inert. That's as far as I've thought it through. Guess we'll find out how it goes soon enough.

[Tobirama Senju]

Ok.. I find some of this bullshit.

Madara's dead body? What the hell are you talking about? In order for Impure World Resurrection to work, you would require the DNA of the body you want to resurrect. If all goes well you summon the SOUL of the person you wanted to resurrect.. with the body being
some random scapegoat. So how the fuck are you going to resurrect Madara's old body when Madara's soul is in tact. Alive and all.

You people are using zetsu clones way too much. I believe it was mentioned that Madara sustained a massive injury, and that weakened him gravely. I guess it does make much more sense, if Madara put some of his chakra on a white zetsu clone fight Hashimara Senju, and obtain the magical energies he needed.

Alright, I think we're going overboard with the rinnegan. Seriously. Paulbee is so sure that Madara wanted to evolve an rinnegan, when he already had a pair of rinnegan, from Nagato. What could make more sense is that Madara manipulated Nagato's genealogy to produce the rinnegan he needed.

And.. for the idiots who think Obito is Tobi.

Tobi = Madara.
Madara = 100 years old.
Obito = 13 year old kid during Kakashi's time.

And maybe Madara likes wearing a fucking mask, because he looks much more badass with it.

[StareIntoMySharingan]

The More I think about it, the more convinced I am of some of my ideas above.

1) Uchiha Madara hatched his Moon's Eye plan WAY BACK in Hashirama's day.
2) He needed the Rinnegan, and for that he needed Hashirama Senju's Genes
3) He decided to challenge Hashirama in battle, and collect some DNA from their mutual blood letting
4) He Knew that he could die, but he had a back-up plan for that
5) Madara creates a backu up plan, using a Zetsu Clone that will carry out his plan if he should die in the battle
6) The Zetsu clone has Madara's Chakra and some random Uchiha Eyes.
7) The Plan was for the Zetsu Clone of Madara to Infuse itself with Hashirama's DNA, and using Madara's Chakra and spiritual energy, it was supposed to evolve a Rinnegan, with the Rinnegan the clone was supposed to revive Madara (only if he got killed in the fight, else Madara would do all this himself.
8) The fight happened, Madara lost, the Zetsu Clone Madara got Hashirama's DNA, everything seemed to be going according to plan.....except.

9) Something went wrong, The Zetsu Clone COULD NOT evolve a Rinegan, and Madara stays Dead. The senju DNA from Hashirama was not enugh, the Rinnegan Process probably required a living being with the strong Chakra of a living powerfull Senju or better still an UZUMAKI, and that person must be under Duress to force the evolution to happen. This just like the Mangekyou Sharingan requires a strong emotional event for it to evolve.

10) The zetsu Clone began to act independently, but having been made from Uchiha Madara's spiritual energies and Chakra, it went ahead and plotted to complete Madara's original plan.

So Tobi is Madara in every way that counts, his knowledge, his desires, his will, but he is not the original Madara.

SO where's the original Madra? Answer is, he's dead and Kabuto has the body. He may even have revived it but kept it inert. That's as far as I've thought it through. Guess we'll find out how it goes soon enough.

i like it!!!

[lazybum]

The More I think about it, the more convinced I am of some of my ideas above.

1) Uchiha Madara hatched his Moon's Eye plan WAY BACK in Hashirama's day.
2) He needed the Rinnegan, and for that he needed Hashirama Senju's Genes
3) He decided to challenge Hashirama in battle, and collect some DNA from their mutual blood letting
4) He Knew that he could die, but he had a back-up plan for that
5) Madara creates a backu up plan, using a Zetsu Clone that will carry out his plan if he should die in the battle
6) The Zetsu clone has Madara's Chakra and some random Uchiha Eyes.
7) The Plan was for the Zetsu Clone of Madara to Infuse itself with Hashirama's DNA, and using Madara's Chakra and spiritual energy, it was supposed to evolve a Rinnegan, with the Rinnegan the clone was supposed to revive Madara (only if he got killed in the fight, else Madara would do all this himself.
8) The fight happened, Madara lost, the Zetsu Clone Madara got Hashirama's DNA, everything seemed to be going according to plan.....except.

9) Something went wrong, The Zetsu Clone COULD NOT evolve a Rinegan, and Madara stays Dead. The senju DNA from Hashirama was not enugh, the Rinnegan Process probably required a living being with the strong Chakra of a living powerfull Senju or better still an UZUMAKI, and that person must be under Duress to force the evolution to happen. This just like the Mangekyou Sharingan requires a strong emotional event for it to evolve.

10) The zetsu Clone began to act independently, but having been made from Uchiha Madara's spiritual energies and Chakra, it went ahead and plotted to complete Madara's original plan.

So Tobi is Madara in every way that counts, his knowledge, his desires, his will, but he is not the original Madara.

SO where's the original Madra? Answer is, he's dead and Kabuto has the body. He may even have revived it but kept it inert. That's as far as I've thought it through. Guess we'll find out how it goes soon enough.

i like the idea...but one thing, when we first saw zetsu use his jutsu on Team Gai, the clones were made to fight their originals, probably meaning that they were under zetsu's control. if this is true, that would mean the clone madara must also be under zetsu's control, but when we are shown a few conversations between madara n zetsu, it seems madara is still in control (though zetsu sometimes still refers to him as tobi as zetsu is talking with his alter personality, which makes no sense to me)