The Tobi/Madara/Obito/ Theories Convo

[paulbee]

BTW, I don't much care for flaming or flamers.

Anyhow shogun, Madara/Tobi bypassed the Barriers not because he knew how they were formed, but because his dimensionl space-time thing allows him to go anywhere freely. So why Kagami as opposed to the many Uchihas that had been in Anbu and in Konoha's police force.

I agree on your other points.

[shogun313]

This is very true Paul. I guess its just speculation till kishi drops that bomb on us. One more thing, If Tobi is Madara he would have certainly used the space time phasing/ Whack-A-Mole no jitsu (lmafoo) when he was fighting Shodai. I wonder how he dealt with it, un like Minato he wouldnt have been able to match space time jitsu with him...wow I would like to see that fight (preferably animated)

[rinnebadass]

not a big deal..if madara tries to atack (warp you) he becames solid. so you just have to punch him in the face.

[shogun313]

If it were that easy then Rock Lee, Gai, Rai Kage, or anyone with good Tai Jitsu would be the ultimate weapon against him.

[rinnebadass]

yep.. anyone that understands that tech can defeat him.

[StareIntoMySharingan]

and yet minato is sure that it will take a unique power to defeat madara..

[Aga bomBa]

To be honest, this picture completely disproves my theory:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/399/01/

Sorry to link to onemanga on the day they remove their manga, but that's the page/chapter. I always remembered that page as showing Madara with his EMS active

lol !! I never thought that someone like you, wouldn't know that Madara didn't had the EMS @ that time.. ( two pages further and you see him taking his brother's eyes )

- .. soo that's the reason why I was like; WTF ?!?! How can you think that Rlin AND I was all prepared for a nice discussion with you on this subject, but yea; case closed

aga bomba..

1. or tobi (madara) is weak (we know) comparing to others and needs an army with sharingan to fight by his side.

2. and even with ems, he can't use all the ms techs he wants, or he will die.

3. my guess is that tobi(if he is madara) is not using ems because he doesn't have the chakra level to use a ems tech.

4. i don't get why madara at his prime is so enteresting.. the guy wasn't even the strongest..never was. he wasn't able to summon kiuby and use a lot of ms techs (the same techs that ems has) or he would die without chakra.

5. madara was a loser.. at his best he was the 2nd (we supose. he could be the 10th) strongest guy, and had to run..

6. the actual madara (tobi) is much better.. he isn't a fighter anymore. i mean, minato won in 2 minutes or less against someone that is an expert in how to fight like a p*ssy.lol he is a chess master. but not a fighter..

uhhhhmm okey :S don't know where to start..

1. It's possible what you just said ( transplanting all those eyes into bodies ) but I still don't think that's the reason why he has more then 100 sharingan eyes. I explained above what I think about this..

2. why's that ?!?! You do know that Madara had strong chakra, so its all related to his chakra source for using it multi times. EMS prevents you from getting blind.. so every time when he uses a MS tech, he won't have the side- effect ( losing his eye- sight ), so no matter how you look at it; if you have the EMS, you can spam those tech more then having only MS.. in the end; it all depends on your chakra capacity.

3. my guess is that he stored all of his power, knownledge etc.. into his eyes, with that being the reason why he has lived for so many years. Even if he isn't in his original body, that doesn't mean that he can't use that extra jutsu he gained when he achieved EMS. We both don't know what that extra jutsu is and how that jutsu is being used/casted,.. but his space/time ninjutsu looks an advanced form of Kamui that kakashi's uses,.. so my guess on this issue is that, Madara's space/time ninjutsu is the advanced form of Kamui with that being his EMS technique.

4. You don't understand why Madara was that interesting in his PRIME ?!?! You're kidding, right? The battle at the valley of the end showed us that Hashirama was the strongest, but Madara wasn't that weak compared to him? Don't think that Hashirama won that easily from Madara and the Kyuubi next to him.. No matter how you look at it, Madara was the second strongest shinobi + Tschikage even said at the meeting, that he ( Madara - tobi ) could beat them all etc..

5. Uhh okeey ;p

6. He isn't a fighter anymore? Let me explain why I think that his fight was only 2 minutes as you said..

Madara knew that Yondaime wasn't easy to capture. So his plans was messing the bond between Konoha and Uchiha, for letting the top tier of Konoha think that the Uchiha's were behind the attack. Madara knew that lots of people wouldn't believe that it was MADARA that made that attack ( except Yondaime, Jiraiya ).. but other sharingan users. The massacre was needed so he could get his revenge on his clan, simple because;

- his clan turned him down when they choose Hashirama as their leader
- the sacrifice of his little brother was for nothing
- and let us not forget; Madara just didn't like 1st Hokage and he wanted to be the LEADER. Madara Uchiha is the real core of Hatred among the shinobi's.

So by creating chaos in Konoha, other countries would surely take that as an opportunity to attack. It would have triggered a fourth ninja war and many innocent people with no ties to the ninja world, would die all for the sake of Uchiha's clan self- interest. That was his MAIN REASON. Creating Internal and External problems for Konoha; making them vulnerable from the inside as well from the outside.
Madara Uchiha has everything planned out from the beginning. He knows how the system work between the nations, the political reasons and the greed between the countries.

.. you see; if you think about it, Tobi ( Madara ) just wanted to capture Yondaime ( why not, even when he wasn't 100% convinced that it could happen, it would still be a win - win situation for him ). If you think that someone from his calibur didn't knew that Yondaime was phsysical stronger then him, then you're not thinking straight IMO. But just like I explained above; no matter what, Madara did what he wanted to do. Of course he wanted the Kyuubi back with him, but like he said in the end:

Spoiler!

Just think and realize how calm he was when he was hit by Rasengan and retrieved; He wasn't angry, pissed or WTF IS GOING ON !! Because he knew that the change for losing the battle was bigger then winning from Yondaime. And the reasons for him staying calm, is all because he MAIN PLAN was executed very well. A chess Master never underestimates his opponent, no matter what.. so in his current situation ( being artificial body 3/4 ), Madara is playing the shinobi world very well if you ask me. Madara manipulated everyone like dominos and is waiting for the right moment to shine. @ this page you can see him saying what I just said; below right corner:

Spoiler!

At least, I wasn't debating with Rlinfamous about what I just told you; he said that his EMS has to be activated all the time, but his theory was wrong, because he mixed some picture up.

SIMS it is kinda random but we dont know if Tobi is Madara, consider Tobi's look of surprise when he saw the other coffin from Kabuto's Edo Tensai. I know that this part of my post belongs in another thread, and I am pretty much asking to be flamed....however The popular theroy (and the one that I am a fan of) is that the last coffin is Madara's body which can lead us to make 2 assumptions (and I am well aware that untill Kishi shows us other wise these assumptions are only that.) 1 - Tobi isnt Madara at all, or 2 - Tobi is Madara's Chakra in another phyiscal form using Zetsu's goo. I think that it isnt a coincidence that Kishi showed us Kagami in Nidiame's squad. He would know how to bypass Kahona's barriers, and on another note we haven't seen Tobi using MS or EMS....this would make it lightyears easier to confirm that he IS Madara, so its still pretty much up in the air. We also never found out how or if Kagami died.

hmm,.. I would love it if Tobi is MADARA afterall. I wrote it a long post in another thread why I would love him to be the last villain. Btw, in the latest chapter, Yondaime himself indirectly explained that Madara is going to be the one that got to be defeated by Naruto and he is going to kick his ass ;p here's the post;

Spoiler!

I still believe in Itachi and I'm not denying the fact that his current body is a artificial body, but that doesn't mean that Madara himself is gone. The one person that brought hatred into the village Konoha and the rest of the world,.. he corrupted so many lives:

1. His plan with his second Kyuubi attack was to mess things up between Konoha and the Uchiha clan, so he could get his revenge on his clan who turned their back on him by choosing Hashirama as their leader + his brother's sacrifice was for nothing in the end. ( and it seems like he didn't put a lot of effort in fighting Yondaime. I'm convinced that his second kyuubi attack was to mess things up between Konoha/Uchiha. )

2. With his second attack with the kyuubi, he fcked the life of Naruto and Sasuke.. both of them lost their family, they grew up by themself and both of them didn't know anything about their life + the big picture of the shinobi world. The political structure of ruling nations and the sacrifices that had too be made. Madara manipulated Nagato etc.

Madara's influences on the shinobi world started the moment when he got defeated by Hashirama at the Valley of The End. So it would be the most fitting badass villain for Naruto in the end. IF HE ISN'T MADARA, then let it be his little brother; Izuna. Acting like he's his big brother, trying to take revenge for his sacrifice that he made and for his brother's honour.

I would really be disappointed in Kishi, if it wasn't Madara or at least, Izuna. If it's gonna be a Uchiha shinobi related to blablabla, woooohh.. I would be so disappointed !

The perfect ending for me would be like:
Naruto and Sasuke co-op against Madara. Sasuke has to redeem himself and thats why he's gonna use a jutsu on Madara by sacrificing himself with the idea that Madara is gonna die with him. ( same thing what Majin Vegeta did against Fat Buu ).

Sasuke fails and dies... Naruto seeing Sasuke falling from above on the ground with blood all around his face, saying the last words:
Sasuke: Why that scary face, Naruto.. I was ignorant and jealous, a fool from the beginning for not admitting that that you're a true shinobi. Naruto, you've always been better and what a fool I am for hurting you guys so much.
Sakura: *screaming* SASUKE !!! She's running towards Sasuke. (Naruto just can't believe that Sasuke is dying, he's in shock)
Sakura: *holding Sasuke in her arms*; Everything is gonna be allright, Sasuke.. (tear drops falling on his face).

Sasuke: (coughing up blood from his mouth, staring into Sakura's eyes); How can you even shed those pure tears for a evil guy like me? How can you even look at me, when I wanted to hurt you, make you bleed for my own vengeance? You're a true angel that sacrificed everything for me, even now. Sakura, I always loved you, but the person that deserves your love more then me, is standing next you.
Sakura: *staring to Naruto, closing her eyes ans saying* The feeling that you've, that you don't deserve me, is the exact same thing what I think about Naruto. Naruto doesn't deserve me either. We are both broken and the only way for us to live in happiness, is being together for us and for the true savior of the shinobi world, Naruto.

Sasuke: *puts a smile on his face* touches Sakura face and saying; Thank you, Sakura.. then he stares at Naruto ( who's slowly getting crazy like a M.. fcker and not knowing how to react ) and says; you saved your friend like a true hero, like a true brother, like a true Hokage. Now start showing what a Hokage is made off,.. chance this cursed, hatred shinobi world once and for all. Spread your love and peace around the nations and mark yourself as the true Sage. Naruto, you know how much pride I have as an Uchiha, but I feel the need for bowing down in my last seconds on this world, to a true Hokage. You saved me from my pain, so it's time for saving the others. Good bye..
Naruto: Sasuke ? Sasuke? SASUKE !!!!!!!!!!! BAM BOOM --> Super Saiyan Kyuubi / Sage Mode 9
Sakura: Noo, don't... don't go, please, don't do this to me, sasuke? SASuke? SASUKE !! * She uses a more advanced jutsu what Chiyo used on Gaara for bringing him back from the dead. Sakura has to give Sasuke half of her life-span for saving him..

Uchiha Madara: God damn.. when does this love shit stops,.. OOh sasuke, noo Sasuke, don't sasuke !! Sasuke was a fool, simple as that. Am I the only one, who loves to spread hatred around here? Well,.. you've to be good in something, right Naruto??
Naruto: Madara, you're going down, you piece of shit !!
Uchiha Madara: that's it, let it all out Uzumaki Naruto !!! finally, a real showndown..

[rinnebadass]

that's why i said that today's madara (tobi) is much better!!!!he is always cool.. but in a 1vs1 he can't win against a s-rank. he is some sort of bonaparte and not a warrior like aquiles. but he can find and make the strongest guys doing that job for him. he is a chessmaster.

yes he had ems and strong chakra. however sooner or later his chakra was going to end. sasuke only managed to fight 10minutes while using ms jutsus (against danzou).
even if madara had more chakra, he summoed kiuby. so..

i have much more interest in a shodai gaiden then a madara gaiden. shodai was the best at his time. he was the 1st hokage. he was doing everything he could to achieve peace.

ps- naruto doesn't need kiuby to defeat tobi (1vs1 and yondaime knew this). naruto needs kiuby to defeat what tobi stands for etc.

[Seke]

The problem is that Madara's weakness only appears when he turns solid, so as long as he's not willing to give you that opening, you can't do anything against him. So you can only defeat him for as long as he's willing to fight you and hope that you land a heavy hit when he turns solid, if he wants to flee or laugh in your face, you can't do anything.
So perhaps Minato thought that the Kyuubi could be used to somehow nullify Madara's phasing, or as some sort of workaround, although i have no idea what that could be.

[rinnebadass]

The problem is that Madara's weakness only appears when he turns solid, so as long as he's not willing to give you that opening, you can't do anything against him. So you can only defeat him for as long as he's willing to fight you and hope that you land a heavy hit when he turns solid, if he wants to flee or laugh in your face, you can't do anything.
So perhaps Minato thought that the Kyuubi could be used to somehow nullify Madara's phasing, or as some sort of workaround, although i have no idea what that could be.

no seek. i believe that you are wrong.

minato gave kiuby to naruto for him to destroy not tobi as a man, but what tobi represents\stands for\believe etc. destroy that, and you will destroy tobi. destroy only tobi and not the rest, and another tobi will show up.