The Tobi/Madara/Obito/ Theories Convo

[paulbee]

I'm just saying, if one of those eyes was the EMS, we'd know, because it'd always be switched on. At least with my theory.

It's just strange that we always see him with EMS active after he achieved it, and then never see Tobi with it. We've all wondered what he did with it, if he lost it, or if he still has it.

Oh I totally agree with you, we're all waiting to find out the EMS mystery....IF he is indeed Madara as he claims to be.

RS has suggested he might just have his original head, but if he does, what happened to the eyes?

[Amargo Deathscythe]

if it were madara my question would be why would he have needed shinsui's sharingan if he had ems which should have been stronger? and wouldn't transplanting a non ms sharingan interfere with the ems?

[lunchroomclassic]

@ Amargo Deathscythe

Maybe madara can implant or transfer eye techs from other sharingans. Another bad ass use for em is if he just starts summoning sets of eyes during a fight to use different techs. But I bet it's just some sick obsession to be the greatest uchiha of all time, and becoming complete by mastering all sharingan secrets

[StareIntoMySharingan]

The Raikage stated the Tsuchikage was the only one who has fought with Madara.





Unless this was a translation error I take it for what it is.

whoa. didn't notice that, thanks! Hmmm, so the kage has first hand experience and vouches for madara's strength. he even goes as far as to imply that madara's original power was enough to defeat the kages and take them as hostages. impressive, i so need a flashback!

[shogun313]

Has anybody thought that Tobi is actually Uchiha Kagami (the Uchiha that was in Danzo and Sarutobi's squad)? Nobody knows what has happened to him and he certainly has the knowledge of Konoha to do what Tobi has done sofar.

[Aga bomBa]

I'm just saying, if one of those eyes was the EMS, we'd know, because it'd always be switched on. At least with my theory.

It's just strange that we always see him with EMS active after he achieved it, and then never see Tobi with it. We've all wondered what he did with it, if he lost it, or if he still has it.

No, No and No dude,.. you're wrong.

The scenes where you saw Madara with the EMS activated, was;

- when Itachi told sasuke that Madara took his little brother's eyes and with that, he gained a new sharingan power, EMS ( You can't blame kishi for showing us, the readers, the first time how EMS looked like and secrets behind it. )

Spoiler!

- The second time was when Madara ( Tobi ) told the story to sasuke about him taking his brother's eyes for being their leader and fight Hashirama etc..

Spoiler!

Again; this time it was Madara who's was talking about how he achieved EMS by stealing his little brother's eyes, how his brother's sacrifice was for nothing, how Hashirama ( the only person that he couldn't beat became THE LEADER + his own clan didn't want him as THEIR LEADER and they choose 1st Hokage.

So by showing Madara with the EMS activated on these pictures, doesn't mean that his EMS is always activated ?!?!

Before Itachi began telling the story about Madara, this picture was showed;

Spoiler!

.. as you can see, his normal sharingan is being showed on this picture with the same outfit and that thing on his back, when he left the clan and tried to attack konoha later on.

The way how I see it, is like this; the moment that you awaken MS, the side- effect begins to have effect on you.. meaning; blindness. By achieving Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, that side- effect is vanished. Eternal means " for always " and Mangekyou is the japanese word for " kaleidoscope ",.. meaning; always " intact " kaleidoscope sharingan.

So it's not like the Rinnegan being activated all the time. EMS has two plus points;

1. You can use for example; T- Yomi, Amatarasu and Susanoo as many times as you want without getting blind

2. Gaining a new jutsu

The confusion that he maybe doesn't have the EMS, is because Madara ( tobi ) uses his normal sharingan all the time when he wharps himself away and when we saw him controlling the Kyuubi with the Normal Sharingan.

Spoiler!

.. As you can see, Madara is putting lots of effort with his normal sharingan for having control over it, see those blood vessels around his eye when he tries to control the Kyuubi. Do you remember what Zetzu said; " A tool is only as powerful as the shinobi who uses it ". That shinobi needs skills, power, knownledge and experience with the " sharingan ".. so tell me; who could be better then Madara Uchiha, the first one ever achieving EMS and knowing almost everything about the sharingan?

It's true that Itachi was a genius, but Madara is also. You guys are underestimating him as a shinobi + overall skills.. IF YOU BELIEVE Itachi's words, then you have to believe what he said about Madara eyes. Itachi said that the power in his eyes were still intact, but he became a shell of his former self ( I assume that Itachi knows that Madara's body is 3/4 of White Zetsu's liquid ).

There's also nothing in any chapter or databook that states you must have MS activated to control kyuubi. The only thing it states is you must unlock the power of the ms to control the kyuubi, but it has never been stated that it has to be activated @ the moment when you're trying to control the kyuubi? See it like this; - Kill the one you love, MS. The moment when you achieved MS, you would have the power inside for controlling such a beast.
Madara does it with normal sharingan, but that doesn't mean that anyone with the Sharingan can do it? If that was the case, then the rest of the clan probably would have done it a long time ago.

That's why you need to be unqiue siblings for achieving such power- up as Mangekyou Sharingan, and there were a few who achieved that. I don't know if you need chakra more sinister then the Kyuubi's.. but we already know that Madara and Sasuke has that kind of chakra.

Conclusion;

I quess that his left eye is still the EMS.. and the reason why he still lives is related to his eyes. If sasori can store his heart inside a tube, then why couldn't a master of the sharingan? I believe that he stored all of his powers, knownledge etc.. inside of his eyes and he moves from body to body by transplaning them. I can't believe that someone from his calibur has a obsession about sharingan eyes, and thats why he has collected 100 sharingan eyes ?!?!

1. He uses those eyes for learning all of the sharingan abilities, for example; Shishui's eye that was transplanted in Danzou.
2. Or he needs those eyes, when he's gonna cast his eternal genjutsu.

I also don't believe that juubi's body is inside of the moon. I honestly believe that he's fooling and making the kages afraid of what he's gonna do to the world. His aim is world domonition, but seriously; never under- estimate Madara ( tobi ) for who he is. That guy is a real Chess Master, so he's always 5 steps ahead. So why would he tell everthing @ that meeting? A true villain, who's been working 60 years for executing his plans, doesn't inform all of his enemies about his goal.. a part of the story is true, but not everthing IMO.

I believe that Juubi's body is Gedou Mazou. I asked and said this a long time ago in the ask a question thread, but nobody believed me. Those nine chakra arms out of his mouth when they extracted the power of Gaara, his two hands being chained and having nine eyes.. those other 8 eyes will merge into the middle eye, when they have extracted the last bijuu.. and you it looks like it's made of Wood. Madara ( tobi ) is putting fire under their asses, but he's secrets to be afraid off.

[Rlinfamous]

No, No and No dude,.. you're wrong.

The scenes where you saw Madara with the EMS activated, was;

- when Itachi told sasuke that Madara took his little brother's eyes and with that, he gained a new sharingan power, EMS ( You can't blame kishi for showing us, the readers, the first time how EMS looked like and secrets behind it. )

Spoiler!

- The second time was when Madara ( Tobi ) told the story to sasuke about him taking his brother's eyes for being their leader and fight Hashirama etc..

Spoiler!

Again; this time it was Madara who's was talking about how he achieved EMS by stealing his little brother's eyes, how his brother's sacrifice was for nothing, how Hashirama ( the only person that he couldn't beat became THE LEADER + his own clan didn't want him as THEIR LEADER and they choose 1st Hokage.

So by showing Madara with the EMS activated on these pictures, doesn't mean that his EMS is always activated ?!?!

Before Itachi began telling the story about Madara, this picture was showed;

Spoiler!

.. as you can see, his normal sharingan is being showed on this picture with the same outfit and that thing on his back, when he left the clan and tried to attack konoha later on.

The way how I see it, is like this; the moment that you awaken MS, the side- effect begins to have effect on you.. meaning; blindness. By achieving Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, that side- effect is vanished. Eternal means " for always " and Mangekyou is the japanese word for " kaleidoscope ",.. meaning; always " intact " kaleidoscope sharingan.

So it's not like the Rinnegan being activated all the time. EMS has two plus points;

1. You can use for example; T- Yomi, Amatarasu and Susanoo as many times as you want without getting blind

2. Gaining a new jutsu

The confusion that he maybe doesn't have the EMS, is because Madara ( tobi ) uses his normal sharingan all the time when he wharps himself away and when we saw him controlling the Kyuubi with the Normal Sharingan.

Spoiler!

.. As you can see, Madara is putting lots of effort with his normal sharingan for having control over it, see those blood vessels around his eye when he tries to control the Kyuubi. Do you remember what Zetzu said; " A tool is only as powerful as the shinobi who uses it ". That shinobi needs skills, power, knownledge and experience with the " sharingan ".. so tell me; who could be better then Madara Uchiha, the first one ever achieving EMS and knowing almost everything about the sharingan?

It's true that Itachi was a genius, but Madara is also. You guys are underestimating him as a shinobi + overall skills.. IF YOU BELIEVE Itachi's words, then you have to believe what he said about Madara eyes. Itachi said that the power in his eyes were still intact, but he became a shell of his former self ( I assume that Itachi knows that Madara's body is 3/4 of White Zetsu's liquid ).

There's also nothing in any chapter or databook that states you must have MS activated to control kyuubi. The only thing it states is you must unlock the power of the ms to control the kyuubi, but it has never been stated that it has to be activated @ the moment when you're trying to control the kyuubi? See it like this; - Kill the one you love, MS. The moment when you achieved MS, you would have the power inside for controlling such a beast.
Madara does it with normal sharingan, but that doesn't mean that anyone with the Sharingan can do it? If that was the case, then the rest of the clan probably would have done it a long time ago.

That's why you need to be unqiue siblings for achieving such power- up as Mangekyou Sharingan, and there were a few who achieved that. I don't know if you need chakra more sinister then the Kyuubi's.. but we already know that Madara and Sasuke has that kind of chakra.

Conclusion;

I quess that his left eye is still the EMS.. and the reason why he still lives is related to his eyes. If sasori can store his heart inside a tube, then why couldn't a master of the sharingan? I believe that he stored all of his powers, knownledge etc.. inside of his eyes and he moves from body to body by transplaning them. I can't believe that someone from his calibur has a obsession about sharingan eyes, and thats why he has collected 100 sharingan eyes ?!?!

1. He uses those eyes for learning all of the sharingan abilities, for example; Shishui's eye that was transplanted in Danzou.
2. Or he needs those eyes, when he's gonna cast his eternal genjutsu.

I also don't believe that juubi's body is inside of the moon. I honestly believe that he's fooling and making the kages afraid of what he's gonna do to the world. His aim is world domonition, but seriously; never under- estimate Madara ( tobi ) for who he is. That guy is a real Chess Master, so he's always 5 steps ahead. So why would he tell everthing @ that meeting? A true villain, who's been working 60 years for executing his plans, doesn't inform all of his enemies about his goal.. a part of the story is true, but not everthing IMO.

I believe that Juubi's body is Gedou Mazou. I asked and said this a long time ago in the ask a question thread, but nobody believed me. Those nine chakra arms out of his mouth when they extracted the power of Gaara, his two hands being chained and having nine eyes.. those other 8 eyes will merge into the middle eye, when they have extracted the last bijuu.. and you it looks like it's made of Wood. Madara ( tobi ) is putting fire under their asses, but he's secrets to be afraid off.

To be honest, this picture completely disproves my theory:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/399/01/

Sorry to link to onemanga on the day they remove their manga, but that's the page/chapter. I always remembered that page as showing Madara with his EMS active

[StareIntoMySharingan]

Has anybody thought that Tobi is actually Uchiha Kagami (the Uchiha that was in Danzo and Sarutobi's squad)? Nobody knows what has happened to him and he certainly has the knowledge of Konoha to do what Tobi has done sofar.

i doubt it.. it would be kind of random lol..

i wanna see madara fighting at his prime already >:[

[rinnebadass]

aga bomba..

or tobi (madara) is weak (we know) comparing to others and needs an army with sharingan to fight by his side.

and even with ems, he can't use all the ms techs he wants, or he will die.

my guess is that tobi(if he is madara) is not using ems because he doesn't have the chakra level to use a ems tech.

i don't get why madara at his prime is so enteresting.. the guy wasn't even the strongest..never was. he wasn't able to summon kiuby and use a lot of ms techs (the same techs that ems has) or he would die without chakra.

madara was a loser.. at his best he was the 2nd (we supose. he could be the 10th) strongest guy, and had to run..

the actual madara (tobi) is much better.. he isn't a fighter anymore. i mean, minato won in 2 minutes or less against someone that is an expert in how to fight like a p*ssy.lol he is a chess master. but not a fighter..

[shogun313]

SIMS it is kinda random but we dont know if Tobi is Madara, consider Tobi's look of surprise when he saw the other coffin from Kabuto's Edo Tensai. I know that this part of my post belongs in another thread, and I am pretty much asking to be flamed....however The popular theroy (and the one that I am a fan of) is that the last coffin is Madara's body which can lead us to make 2 assumptions (and I am well aware that untill Kishi shows us other wise these assumptions are only that.) 1 - Tobi isnt Madara at all, or 2 - Tobi is Madara's Chakra in another phyiscal form using Zetsu's goo. I think that it isnt a coincidence that Kishi showed us Kagami in Nidiame's squad. He would know how to bypass Kahona's barriers, and on another note we haven't seen Tobi using MS or EMS....this would make it lightyears easier to confirm that he IS Madara, so its still pretty much up in the air. We also never found out how or if Kagami died.