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  1. #61
    Pervy Sage bluntman_exe's Avatar
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    That was so worth the wait. Props to kishimoto!

  2. #62
    I'll be waiting, be sure. Yoru's Avatar
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    I know this will be a bit off topic, but i just came up with an idea regarding Sasuke and what does he want to do now.
    You all remember Sasuke stated he wanted to go meet "them". Now, who are those you ask?
    And what if i told you the secret scroll contained the info on how to free souls from the dead God belly? Think about it. Suigetsu said whith this you can control the war: if the info really said how to free all the kages from the dead god seal, sasuke could use edo tensei to bring them back to life and gain control of the battlefield. Afterall
    Hashirama - the only worthy opponent of madara uchiha
    Tobirama - with superior space time ninjutsu
    Hiruzen Sarutobi - the man who learned all tchniques in the world and his strenght was acknowledged by the 1st and the 2nd
    Minato - the fastest kage in the world, with advanced space time seals and probably many other seals from the uzumaki clan.

    they are the perfect team to win over all enemies.
    Do you remember that after sasuke said he needed Orochimaru, Suigetsu said "we don't need him for that, i guess you'll realize it by yourself if you take your time". Maybe he was talking about using edo tensei after unlocking the dead god belly? Sasuke didn't know how to use it so suigetsu thought sasuke was gonna ask oro to perform the edo for him.
    Sasuke tho' wasn't interested in their fighting potential. The thing he wants to do is to hear their version of all that happened from before the founding of Konoha until the death of the 3rd hokage. He wants to know the value of a village, a clan, a shinobi...who is there of better to ask these questions to if not to the founder of konoha and the most brilliant shinobi? Plus Sasuke realized by now he can't trust all Tobi said to him. He said he was Madara and sasuke believed him, but some chapters ago Juugo said that the edo madara was still on the battelfield, meaning Tobi=\= Madara. Maybe sasuke wants to hear the whole story from a more reliable source than Tobi?

    Too much bold text.
    Last edited by Arbitrary; 08-14-2012 at 10:51 PM.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    I was checking some things while wondering about Kakashi's current capabilities and... somehow, it actually can be explained with the old cliché of "experiencing death makes you stronger"... heh, after all if what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, then coming back after being killed, would make you reach a new other level :p.


    We can't forget about the Black Zetsu, there is even less clues about him than Tobi... what's more, there are times that it looks like it is Tobi that reports to Zetsu and not the other way around...:
    Spoiler!

    Zetsu even says that "it's been so long"... as you can see a few years (around 8 ) can be long, depending on your perception of time.

    Funny enough, Tobi actually seems to somehow care about his fallen 'comrades', or at least acknowledge their help in completing his/their plan:
    Spoiler!


    Although, Madara, Zetsu and Kisame might be his only "true" comrades, since they were the only ones that knew about the plan. Kisame hearing about the plan for the first time:
    Spoiler!



    Speaking of Kisame, there is a problem. We have seen a portion of Tobi's face and it doesn't really remind me of Madara (especially since Edodara's face is in perfect conditon), though we haven't seen enough anyway... still Kisame recognized Tobi as the one that introduced himself as Madara (2 pics):
    Spoiler!
    what's more, there is only a close up on one eye (spoiler below), even though he probably had/could have the other Sharingan, since when he later took off his mask (spoiler above), he should have the other one which he later used in fight against Konan:
    Spoiler!



    Since we have seen some of Tobi's power explained, it's time to bring this up again:
    Spoiler!

    It is unknown if it was thanks to Zetsu, or if Tobi himself posses a sensing power, but seeing how well he can jump and follow up in the middle of battle (as in the fight against the 4th), it's possible that he even posses the same power as the Black one:
    Spoiler!

    Interesting enough, he didn't say that "they underestimate my power" but "they underestimate Black Zatsu's power"...


    Oh right, remember when I mentioned that Tobi can't be Obito because of a too big difference in intelligence ? Screw that, Naruto tripled his innate intelligence in 3-4 years, so yeah gaining 5 from 1 doesn't seem so impossible anymore . I know that brain can be trained like a muscle, but tripling your innate potential seems quite impossible... manga laws , or just the "intelligence" attribute is something else and the true meaning was lost in translation.



  4. #64
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Obito is finished as a character and his role complete. He, at his young age, possessed what few uchiha acknowledged.. a will of fire and love for his friends above all else regarding the shinobi way of life. Obito's vision and will carry on in kakashi and kakashi's eye. His dying words were the intention to see the future from then on through his gift of sharingan to kakashi. It was arguably more life changing than any other event in kakashi's life and the white fang tragedy was nothing to sneeze at. It would be irresponsible of kishi to tread obito as tobi down a path incompatible with obito's spirit and rules many of kakashi's lifetime sentiments ill founded. Obito needs to stay dead and buried because if he turns out to be just a nobody awkward villian then the manga is ruined IMO and kishi tarnished his character, themes, and strong ideals present in the story. Obito's eye is more than enough to get all the tension and emotion we need with kakashi currently present and still feed more mystery, making tobi actually obito would be plain irresponsible to the characters and story.

    Psychological incongruencies aside, the mere fact this chapter was a huge eye tease makes the likelihood of tobi being obito pretty slim. You don't say, "aha! I have obito's eye" then still wear the mask THEN agterwards turn out to be obito. That's just stupid "art of revealing". To really get impact with revealing tobi as obito then you reveal the identity BEFORE you tease the eye, it lets all the info rush and click in the readers mind. Teasing the eye and then revealing he is obito is kinda anticlimactic redundancy. Teasing the eye implies identity (obito's) so you don't build up three more chapters for a centennial milestone to bring to the table what's already there, even kishi should know that much.

    Don't forget, kakashi was the orochimaru/sasuke in his 3 man group before obito redeemed him in an almost naruto like way. That story came and went, no need or possibility to turn a will of fire bearer into a villian or antihero.
    Last edited by knife eater; 08-15-2012 at 03:49 AM.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  5. #65
    GAI SENSEI 4 HOKAGE bankai's Avatar
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    will there be another naruto tomorrow ???????????????????
    Spoiler!

  6. #66
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    @ Zero,

    Manga reader is not a good source for spoiler pics because a good many readers can't see images on their site.


    @ Knife Eater....I Like your Sentiment.


    @ Bankai... I don't think so, my friend, seems we'll have to wait till next week

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  7. #67
    I think you bring up a very good point about Tobi entrusting something to some one and being let down by this person. I think Kishi made him point that out to show that he is bitter about something related to the subject. Maybe Tobi was the one who was entrusted with something and failed, and now he's overcompensating to correct his failure?

    My theory is that if Tobi is Obito (which I really, really hate the thought of and don't think it's the case) then I think what Obito entrusted was Rin's safety to Kakashi. I think he tells Kakashi that he's all words and no actions because he said he would protect Rin in Obito's "last" moments and Rin still died. This is why Tobi wants to create a world where "Heroes don't have to make pitiful excuses in front of graves". Meaning he wants to create a world where his loved ones (Rin) don't get killed and Kakashi (hero of the war) won't have to make excuses before her grave. He even says it's too late to regret. Wondering what he means here. Maybe that it's too late to regret that Rin died and Kakashi couldn't do anything, or maybe that he thinks it's too late to regret leaving things in Kakashi's hands. Interesting to think about, but most likely not the case.

  8. #68
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shishikamo View Post
    I think you bring up a very good point about Tobi entrusting something to some one and being let down by this person. I think Kishi made him point that out to show that he is bitter about something related to the subject. Maybe Tobi was the one who was entrusted with something and failed, and now he's overcompensating to correct his failure?

    My theory is that if Tobi is Obito (which I really, really hate the thought of and don't think it's the case) then I think what Obito entrusted was Rin's safety to Kakashi. I think he tells Kakashi that he's all words and no actions because he said he would protect Rin in Obito's "last" moments and Rin still died. This is why Tobi wants to create a world where "Heroes don't have to make pitiful excuses in front of graves". Meaning he wants to create a world where his loved ones (Rin) don't get killed and Kakashi (hero of the war) won't have to make excuses before her grave. He even says it's too late to regret. Wondering what he means here. Maybe that it's too late to regret that Rin died and Kakashi couldn't do anything, or maybe that he thinks it's too late to regret leaving things in Kakashi's hands. Interesting to think about, but most likely not the case.
    Right on, the rin angle has always been the snag for me when it comes to reasons why tobi is not obito. However, tobi has only been focusing on kakashi's personal shortcomings and memories since kakashi is the one actively engaging him with success. Since kakashi is meeting tobi's challenging nature he becomes, naturally, the prime audience for tobi's twisted version of talk-no-jutsu
    Tobi seems to know a great deal about many people and i wager he could aggravate anybody's personal demons. If tsunade were fighting tobi, tobi would spew out details personal to her and we would all believe tobi is really her dead kid brother. The recalling of the whole hero with the sharingan at the bridge was something tobi most likely discovered (he and.zetsu.are very pervasive "watchers") either by witness or by way of the legend first spreading. It's story probably struck a chord with him having experienced similar circumstances though without the triumph of the will of fire kakashi benefited from when obito showed his heart to kakashi.

    Tobi knows about almost everybody because he.has already been confirmed spying undetected all over the village, especially uchiha quarters prior to massacre.

    Also, would obito ever have a supreme sinister chakra that scared even the 9 tails? Kyubi most certainly said that the man who used him 16 years ago Had a frightening sinister chakra and that masked man was using obito's eye already at that point. No way a Goofball anti-hero like obito (if he were tobi) would have chakra that scares 9 tails.

    The only snag left is the scenario that during the stressful and shock moment of impending death as the rocks began crush him did he also awaken his mangekyo ability which instinctively shifted dimensions of half his body which was beneath the falling rocks. I doubt he would awaken such power mere moments after awakening a novice sharingan. Hell, the whole bridge legend could be another mind trick with altered memory or reality ; the same way like when everyone believed nagato awakened his rinnegan during the murder if his parents but reality later turned out to be a manipulation courtesy of madara/tobi. Even konan had a memory crisis when tobi explained the true origin of akatsuki she was unaware of, even though in her reality she was a founding member and always aligned with the wishes of yahiko and nagato.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  9. #69
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    you are right knife eater, he wouldnt awaken such a power mere moments b4 his death bcoz obito only had the standard version of the sharingan. i think the whole idea of tobi being obito has fallen to the floor, it is just plain illogical to think that it is obito, it can be his body as that would be entirely possible, since tobi has a hashirama growing at his base, but it isnt the "person" obito that has pulled a nagato and gotten a twisted point of view.

  10. #70
    I'll be waiting, be sure. Yoru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    Right on, the rin angle has always been the snag for me when it comes to reasons why tobi is not obito. However, tobi has only been focusing on kakashi's personal shortcomings and memories since kakashi is the one actively engaging him with success. Since kakashi is meeting tobi's challenging nature he becomes, naturally, the prime audience for tobi's twisted version of talk-no-jutsu
    Tobi seems to know a great deal about many people and i wager he could aggravate anybody's personal demons. If tsunade were fighting tobi, tobi would spew out details personal to her and we would all believe tobi is really her dead kid brother. The recalling of the whole hero with the sharingan at the bridge was something tobi most likely discovered (he and.zetsu.are very pervasive "watchers") either by witness or by way of the legend first spreading. It's story probably struck a chord with him having experienced similar circumstances though without the triumph of the will of fire kakashi benefited from when obito showed his heart to kakashi.

    Tobi knows about almost everybody because he.has already been confirmed spying undetected all over the village, especially uchiha quarters prior to massacre.

    Also, would obito ever have a supreme sinister chakra that scared even the 9 tails? Kyubi most certainly said that the man who used him 16 years ago Had a frightening sinister chakra and that masked man was using obito's eye already at that point. No way a Goofball anti-hero like obito (if he were tobi) would have chakra that scares 9 tails.

    The only snag left is the scenario that during the stressful and shock moment of impending death as the rocks began crush him did he also awaken his mangekyo ability which instinctively shifted dimensions of half his body which was beneath the falling rocks. I doubt he would awaken such power mere moments after awakening a novice sharingan. Hell, the whole bridge legend could be another mind trick with altered memory or reality ; the same way like when everyone believed nagato awakened his rinnegan during the murder if his parents but reality later turned out to be a manipulation courtesy of madara/tobi. Even konan had a memory crisis when tobi explained the true origin of akatsuki she was unaware of, even though in her reality she was a founding member and always aligned with the wishes of yahiko and nagato.
    You're right, tobi knows much about everyone but he seems to be especially mad at kakashi. he never scolded anyone like he did with kakashi, losing his coolness and pointing his finger at him in anger. He didn't say those words calmly as someone who's explaining his view and his plans to somebody else: his behavior was similar to accusation, yes..it almost felt like tobi was accusing kakashi for something he did wrong, meaning it's a personal matter.

    About his chakra: you seem to forget how much sasuke's chakra changed after he was consumed by hatred. A few chapters before he was caring about his partners from team taka, Karin said his chakra was completely different from before. If Obito has been manipulated by madara, it would amke sense for him to be consumed by hate as well. There is the possibility that obito is Madara's grandson, in that case his chakra would be inherited naturally. A goofy anti-hero can change under certain events. A child stops behaving like a child if he lives trough sufference and schock and hatred.

    In this years interview with Kishi, he said he will develop kakashi's past story (he said this year it'll be for real), and i don't see a better way of showing kakashi's past than making him encounter an old friend who awakens ome flashbacks, and shares some past with kakashi.

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