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  1. #31
    I'll be waiting, be sure. Yoru's Avatar
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    The real problem with Tobi being Obito isn't in his looks, but in his mind. Tobi seems like a mastermind, he seems even quite intelligent, while Obito's intelligence stat from the Databook was 1... his current state of mind, motivation, the reason for performing "THAT" plan are, understandable, but the big jump in intelligence seems quite strange.


    Still, he might not be Obito, because in reality, most Shinobi would have their wish unfulfilled, their promises shattered and their hopes pulverized.
    Hm..well, yeah. Tobi seems to be intelligent. Quite intelligent. BUT
    If he is obito and he really worked with Madara and Zetsu and was trained by him, then it would be reasonable for him to improve his strategic abilities. Even naruto, that was a total dumbass is the pre time skip was able to pull out some good strategies and over the 2 years he improved even more. I think the problem with Obito was that he was a lazy boy who didn't take reality too seriously, until everything he had and everything he believed in crumbled. Suddenly he had a motivation, given to him by madara and he got over his lazyness. If he started training seriuslu under the biggest mastermind in history, then he himself would become quite good at it.

    There is still the possibility that Tobi (if he's Obito) is just following Madara's instructions. Like Madara made all the plans and was the mastermind behind all this and Obito has all ready. He just has to follow the path madara traced for him. And he still has zetsu for consultance, in case he would do something stupid.

    I see only 2 possibilities: tobi is either Obito or Izuna, afterall the guy entrusted his eyes to madara who failed at protecting his clan from senju, but i don't see how would izuna behave in such a ridicolous way he did in the deidara arc. I just don't see a serious uchiha making a fool of himself. Obito on the other hand was clumsy from the start, so he may accept the role of a clown way easier than a serious character. (just remember how vegeta didn't want to use fusion cuz it was ridicolous. A real serious villain wouldn't behave like that. He would rather die XD)

  2. #32
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    The Age Factor with Tobi was not limited to the wrinkles around his face.

    When Tobi Fought with Minato, he was physically a Full Grown adult while Kakashi and Gai were physically Youngsters. Tobi had mastered his Sharingan, had taken down several Anbu, and was physically a match for Minato while Kakashi and Gai were still shrimps and physically immature.

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  3. #33
    I'll be waiting, be sure. Yoru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    The Age Factor with Tobi was not limited to the wrinkles around his face.

    When Tobi Fought with Minato, he was physically a Full Grown adult while Kakashi and Gai were physically Youngsters. Tobi had mastered his Sharingan, had taken down several Anbu, and was physically a match for Minato while Kakashi and Gai were still shrimps and physically immature.
    I dunno about that. I've controlled the characters heights in the databook.
    First of all, we haven't really seen tobi's body during the fight with minato cuz he was fully cloaked. We don't know if he had a body of an adult or a grown teen. In any case:

    -Tobi is said to be 175cm tall.

    -Minato is 179.2 cm tall. So tobi<Minato.

    -Kakashi at his current age is 181 cm tall. so in the tobi vs minato battle he could have been around tobi's height.

    Tobi could have stopped growing, unlike kakashi, or he was less tall than his 175cm back then. And of course, kishi could always use the other dimension as a hyperbolic time chamber from dbz (which i hope he won't use).

    Another scenario: if tobi=obito, his body has been crushed enough to make it crippled for life, but if he was saved by zetsu then the plant-man could have replaced the 90%of his body with zetsu parts, which would make him look like a more grown up like kakashi...

    They're all possibilities...but i could be wrong very easily ^^

    And to those saying "Tobi cannot be Obito cuz obito was super weak and tobi could cope even with Minato":

    You forget that if tobi=obito, then he would acquire a powerful mangekyou sharingan. Its technique is hax! A convenient technique like that could make even the weakes chinobi fight powerful enemies. Afterall all he does is making himself intangible and hiding n the other dimesnion. He doesen't even have to fight directly: he ends his battles sucking away his opponents. And if you remember well, Obito wasn't the worst fighter either...he was fst enough to respond to enemies traps with a fireball jutsu, and teaming up with kakashi he pulled out a really good combo.
    One day Obito said "once i awaken this sharingan of mine, I will surpass you!" and if tobi is Obito then this prediction came true.
    It isn't much tobi's fighting skills that make him a monster, but his only technique, which can cope with even the stronges enemies because of its nature.
    And those who say that tobi can't be obito cuz tobi can do huge things ike controlling kyuubi, using powerful barriers and such, they don't take into consideration that if tobi learned from madara, he would make sure to teach him everything he could potentially do as an uchiha, and everything necessary for him to complete his plan with success.

    ANd another thing:

    I assume edo tensei brings ppl back to life in the same exact appareance they had when they died, meaning age will be the same. Madara was quite old when he died, yet he is very young when summoned by kabuto, that means that he looked young at his detah ( surely thanks to his strong uchiha chakra). So if Izuna is Tobi (and izuna was around madara's age) why would Izuna be old behind the mask while Madara looked young when he died?
    Last edited by Yoru; 08-13-2012 at 05:26 PM.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Right there is no real way to check if Tobi wasn't getting taller, since the first time we see him (according to timeline), he is basically standing along the shortest kage ever, then there is the battle with 4th and it's even hard to tell since there isn't even one panel in which they stand tall beside themselves, later we see him standing before teenage Itachi.

    If Teenage (ANBU) Itachi is taller than adult Yagura, then that means that Tobi have really grown taller ( we know, thanks to ET, how Madara looked at his death and that Kisame recognized Tobi as Madara, thus Kisame only met Tobi since Madara doesn't have deformations/scars/things on his cheek as Tobi):
    Spoiler!

    Spoiler!

    since the difference between Itachi and Tobi seems even bigger than between Tobi and Yagura, what's more we don't know of their heights (even Madara's) at that time.

    Beside, Zetsu can grow and form itself as he wants anyway, so there is no real problem there. Hashirama cells could even fastened up his growth rate.


    The things with Tobi's height is similar with that part of his face. Unless we can compare it (with other part of his face/other peoples height properly) we can't really say yes or no.

    The way Kishi presented Tobi's aspects, where to make fans doubt, but not denied. Perhaps he even himself was wondering at that time what to do with Tobi ;P.



  5. #35
    首はねスレイマン Saiges's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    EMS is something that can be obtained through close blood ties, what's more EMS only strengthens the recipient's MS techniques than he himself awakened from his own eyes, the recipient doesn't gain any new techniques (example: Sasuke and probably Madara).
    Actually, EMS unlocks 1 new power - stated by itachi.


    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    When Tobi Fought with Minato, he was physically a Full Grown adult.
    Obito theorists will say Tobi could have used transformation jutsu (grown man).
    Though, he was fighting Minato.

    1.) Minato => Obito's teacher => would have recognized Obi's chakra/presence/feeling when they clashed.
    2.) Tobi talking to Kushina while ripping QB out of her body: "Do you know how long I have been waiting for this opportunity?" Can only imply he has been observing her for a long, looong time. (Before obito was born? Most likely.)


    I'm not convinced either, Kishi wants us to believe it is Obito by his knowledge on Kakashi. But Tobi seems to know ALOT about everyone.
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  6. #36
    Konjiki Ashisogi Jizō Daemon Spade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoru View Post
    Hm..well, yeah. Tobi seems to be intelligent. Quite intelligent. BUT
    If he is obito and he really worked with Madara and Zetsu and was trained by him, then it would be reasonable for him to improve his strategic abilities. Even naruto, that was a total dumbass is the pre time skip was able to pull out some good strategies and over the 2 years he improved even more. I think the problem with Obito was that he was a lazy boy who didn't take reality too seriously, until everything he had and everything he believed in crumbled. Suddenly he had a motivation, given to him by madara and he got over his lazyness. If he started training seriuslu under the biggest mastermind in history, then he himself would become quite good at it.
    The line in bold. Shikamaru is "lazy", but there are only a hand full smarter than him. Namely, his dad, Minato, Itachi, Oro, Madara, and Tobi. Based on that, if I was a character I would want to be classified as "lazy"!...lol

    Plus Obito had that Naruto determination. We've all seen what happens when someone that has that Naruto "will" goes astray, you get Pain! (physically and metaphorically)
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  7. #37
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saiges View Post
    Actually, EMS unlocks 1 new power - stated by itachi.




    Obito theorists will say Tobi could have used transformation jutsu (grown man).
    Though, he was fighting Minato.

    1.) Minato => Obito's teacher => would have recognized Obi's chakra/presence/feeling when they clashed.
    2.) Tobi talking to Kushina while ripping QB out of her body: "Do you know how long I have been waiting for this opportunity?" Can only imply he has been observing her for a long, looong time. (Before obito was born? Most likely.)


    I'm not convinced either, Kishi wants us to believe it is Obito by his knowledge on Kakashi. But Tobi seems to know ALOT about everyone.

    Not quite, Itachi said that EMS (a new design with additional function) is a new doujutsu, the same way as MS is a new doujutsu compared to Sharingan and how Byukugan & Rinnegan are doujutsus different from themselves. There was a discussion at some point, about what he meant. People were wondering if he meant it as a new magical eye, or a new magical jutsu that is casted from the eye. Currently, he meant it as a new EYE and not JUTSU, since neither Madara nor Sasuke have presented another jutsu from the ones they previously had (heck, Madara didn't even show us his base 2 MS jutsu that create his Susanoo...).

    1) Tobi was infused with Hashirama X Zetsu cells, his chakra was greatly metamorphosed, it's impossible for it to have the same feeling, as when it had before he awakened his Sharingan (unless he was infused with them from birth).

    2) "Long" is nothing more than an subjective feeling of time passage. A second of pain might feel eternal, compared to second of happiness that passes away before you fully notice it.


    As always, Tobi's character is constructed in a way that would make us doubt, yet from even this point, I can see Kishi going wherever he wants with him, it all depends on the author at this point, his initial plan and how much he have strayed from it, or want to stray.



  8. #38
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    The Whole Point is this, We only know for certain that Tobi has Obito's Eye. There are lots of reasons to doubt that he is infact literally Obito. Even if he turns out to be Obito, we cannot conclude it yet.

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  9. #39
    I'll be waiting, be sure. Yoru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon Spade View Post
    The line in bold. Shikamaru is "lazy", but there are only a hand full smarter than him. Namely, his dad, Minato, Itachi, Oro, Madara, and Tobi. Based on that, if I was a character I would want to be classified as "lazy"!...lol

    Plus Obito had that Naruto determination. We've all seen what happens when someone that has that Naruto "will" goes astray, you get Pain! (physically and metaphorically)
    Lol you're right Shikamaru is lazy but he likes to engage in mind games which also makes him quite smart. Obito was lazy and he was't that much gifted, phisically nor mentally. But the technique he might have awakened with his mangekyou, gives him a great advantage over any foe. Plus if madara trained fim for 3 or 4 years, could have made him a lot better than he once was. Like you say, he was determined like naruto, so take that determination of his and put it in service of evil ideals: with a mentor like madara and the will to never give up and working hard he would become an evil powerful genius.

  10. #40
    Appearance of Darkness Aga bomBa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    The Whole Point is this, We only know for certain that Tobi has Obito's Eye. There are lots of reasons to doubt that he is infact literally Obito. Even if he turns out to be Obito, we cannot conclude it yet.
    Exactly.. I've been saying from the beginning that Tobi was using an advanced version of Kakashi's Kamui and believed that the reason why he could teleport himself/other things, had to be related with him having Uchiha blood( half uchiha/half zetzu, doesn't matter.. it 's still more then what Kakashi possesses ).

    - Now, it seems that he knows a lot about Kakashi/Jiraiya.. but that's still not a HUGE FACT for me for believing that he's Obito.

    Tobi seems to be knowing a lot of Shinobi's history / Uchiha-Senju and especially Konoha. We also saw Zetzu coming out of the ground, when Sasuke had beaten Naruto at the VOTE, meaning; Tobi had eyes all along on Naruto and Sasuke. Tobi, a Master in Manipulation, used Akatsuki for getting his hands on the Bijuu's.
    Naruto is a Jinchirkuu of the strongest bijuu, so its no suprise that he made Zetzu follow Naruto from the beginning; its the same for Sasuke.
    Tobi came to an understanding that he couldn't manipulate Itachi, and saw potential in Sasuke ( similar to Oro's perspective ). who knows, maybe he used white spore of Zetzu on Naruto/Sasuke, just for knowing where they were or what they were doing.

    tobi's interest in Kyuubi, Naruto/Sasuke, his knownledge about everything and even ITACHI's " a shell of his former self ", seems for me from a higher scale and way above of what obito would do. I BELIEVE that he has Obito's other eye, but he isn't Obito.
    Let us not forget about the other recent chapters, where tobi potrayes himself as being " NO ONE " and loses his cooleness/ calmeness by Naruto's provocations. There is more into Tobi, then just Obito's background.. this is simple a " mind rape " of Kishimoto through Tobi to us, the readers. Lets face it; every 100 chapters, kishi reveals something HUGE, and if we would know right now, that Tobi = obito, just because he told about Kanabi Brindge and some little background about Kakashi, then what kind of suprise would it be? Tobi's true identity has to be bigger then him being Obito.

    I'm still going on with my theories off;

    1. Tobi being Madara's creation of Rinnegan's version of Izanagi
    2. Izuna
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