Naruto 597 Discussion / 598 Predictions

[nekko]

Who are Obito Parents ? If Izuna were his father (or Grand-Father), it would explain a lot of things.

[Zero]

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Huh ?

all this really do belong in the theory section coz it is nothing but theory. for every arguement there is for it being 1 person, there is an arguement for it being another person, for all we know it could be white fang's bastard step son or minato's deranged grandfather, they are all as viable as anything else at this point, no1 is correct and no1 is wrong either, and the only way to find out is to have tobi explain it himself.

You guys are just high. Take it to the theory section lol

Well, we are discussing what might be revealed in the next chapter, plus a little more :p. Basically, those are predictions, with explanation why we predicted it that way.

Obito theorists must believe he faked his death following massive trauma, a sacrifice to a friend he redeemed, and before a medical ninja directly tending him who would recognize the overall effects to the body. If his eye saved him then rin would recognize the lack of internal bleeding with the exposed half of the body she was with and if he was indeed crushed then ofc there was every reason to believe death was imminent. There would be nothing at all preventing rin from noticing the anomoly of his exposed half not behaving as if the other were crushed. Rin must have died the next day because obito miraculously surviving would have no reason to keep from his home and friends. Really? Obito just hung out in secret WAITING behind everyone's back for a reason to hold a grudge?

Why can't you guys tell that tobi's words had nothing to do with rin but instead are words showing his misunderstanding of what transpired there with obito's death, him accusing kakashi of failing obito. Its why tobi is misguided, he observed kakashi failing obito and not obito saving kakashi. Tobi, having such a skewed vision and understanding is what upsets kakashi and drives his reaction. Its an assault and insult to his memory. I can't believe everyone thinks tobi was making allusions to rin when only the scene which built the context was taken from the bridge where obito died. There was no angle in that context for referencing rin and for her to even be in consideration for use in tobi's speech would kinda need rin to be mentioned more often prior to these chapters but she simply hasn't been.

Also, IM glad someone else thinks tobi is the older son, even if wildly at guess. The circumstantial evidence, IMO, is every bit as convincing as what is there circumstantially supporting the obito theory, minus the eye.

The uchiha tablet was said to pertain to 9 tails control and manipulation when not acting as an account of the lineage origin and hidtory yet his knowledge and command of secret info appears to transcend even the tablets. His strange awkward words when he undergoes a bossy oration of history before konaha up to the present. His comfort in use of different eye doujutsu, the Guy doesn't ever show wear and tear fro
Their use and seems to require absolutely NO adjusting to them. This is a Guy who feels immediately right at home swapping eyes and rocking rinnegan without skipping a beat! Seriously, the villians in naruto seem to have a running gag of not dying or cheating death and gaining power. Makes sense to me that the shinobi world as we know it would have it's original villian out there lurking, setting the
precident. Having the heretical statue to me is an indication he is the son with inheritance of his father's tools and we have not seen any reason or picture of madara or hashirama having the juubi's vessel. That is ground equal in strength to establish tobi as the son as tobi's eye being obito's establishing tobi as obito. Great that tobi has madara's fan but big whoop.

It's alright to say that Tobi might not be talking specifically about Rin, but it's certainly suggested, what's more it's with 99% probability, especially that Kakashi was thinking about Rin (probably), just look here (middle right panel --> 597 p.14):

Spoiler!

After Tobi's response, we see Kakashi having a flashback, in which he stands above a grave (probably Rin's), a grave that is among Shinobi whose bodies were retrieved/who died at times of peace (like Asuma). If Rin died at war, her name would have to be carved on the tombstone just like Obito's, since her role in the Battle at Kannabi Brigde, was quite significant. She was one of the 4 people (well, Minato wasn't assigned to this mission, but we see him standing on the destroyed bridge with Kakashi and Rin) that went on that mission and 1 of the 3 that returned from it.

One way or the other, Obito was heavily damaged (all that blood coming from his mouth). I hope you don't expect him to be jumping from tree to tree the next day, do you ?


There is still much we don't know about Kakashi. We know that Kakashi was once an ANBU member (all those that became a genin before being 11 years old seem to be an ex or current ANBU member ;P), it's even suggested that he was leading a squad (similarly, Itachi was an ANBU captain as well and most likely, Itachi was one of the "...kids younger than Naruto, but stronger than Kakashi", he might even meant Shisui, because I have seen people suggesting that he was younger than Obito, even though he became even more famous than him at the same war). I would not mind another Kakashi Gaiden .

[knife eater]

Huh ?





Well, we are discussing what might be revealed in the next chapter, plus a little more :p. Basically, those are predictions, with explanation why we predicted it that way.




It's alright to say that Tobi might not be talking specifically about Rin, but it's certainly suggested, what's more it's with 99% probability, especially that Kakashi was thinking about Rin (probably), just look here (middle right panel --> 597 p.14):

Spoiler!

After Tobi's response, we see Kakashi having a flashback, in which he stands above a grave (probably Rin's), a grave that is among Shinobi whose bodies were retrieved/who died at times of peace (like Asuma). If Rin died at war, her name would have to be carved on the tombstone just like Obito's, since her role in the Battle at Kannabi Brigde, was quite significant. She was one of the 4 people (well, Minato wasn't assigned to this mission, but we see him standing on the destroyed bridge with Kakashi and Rin) that went on that mission and 1 of the 3 that returned from it.

One way or the other, Obito was heavily damaged (all that blood coming from his mouth). I hope you don't expect him to be jumping from tree to tree the next day, do you ?


There is still much we don't know about Kakashi. We know that Kakashi was once an ANBU member (all those that became a genin before being 11 years old seem to be an ex or current ANBU member ;P), it's even suggested that he was leading a squad (similarly, Itachi was an ANBU captain as well and most likely, Itachi was one of the "...kids younger than Naruto, but stronger than Kakashi", he might even meant Shisui, because I have seen people suggesting that he was younger than Obito, even though he became even more famous than him at the same war). I would not mind another Kakashi Gaiden .

I gotta hand it to you, zero, that was a master class observation with the tombstones/memorial stones. I had forgotten there was a distinction between war and peacetime graves. Correct me if i am wrong, wasn't obito's stone segregated or secluded into its own space? I have a vague memory of kurunai offering sympathy to kakashi and so followed a scene of him visiting obito's gravestone and revealing why he is always late to morning training.

As for him being crushed or not crushed, jumping tree to tree is the point! If he was so damaged even then, how could he possibly have survived unless not already secretly watched? Think a zetsu, oro, danzo angle was the reason that eye was discovered fresh enough for use? rin would know if his wounds were fatal and it was obvious he was going to die. Hmmm, i should reread kakashi gaiden because now IM worried obito may have told rin to not bother treating him but instead focus on transplanting his sharingan. I would excitedly accept obito as tobi if at that crossroad of death and mangekyo awakening, he saw a figure, .maybe madara, standing above him in his extra dimension where he could speak to obito and nobody else would know. Creepy and awesome, i welcome it if is possible. Madara loves picking his pawns from the fruit of tragically misspent youth in wartime. Easy brainwashing nagato and obito. Next we will learn that obito didn't awaken sharingan but were madaras old eyes before his rinnegan blah blah

The personal appeals to naruto don't fit the situation if obito were addressing them. It seems tobi is just as interested in convincing naruto by effort of intimate details. Perhaps naruto reminded him of how he once was and kakashi reminds him of how he bacame what he is? He has Jack sh*t to say to gai or bee LOL and they are nothing to sneeze at in an epic hostile encounter!

[Kabow]

But wasn't Tobi a full grown man when he fought the 4th Hokage? Obito should still be little then yea? So there's no way Obito can be Tobi unless he got a body exchange.

[knife eater]

I just reread kakashi gaiden and realized i have been wrong in some things.

I think obito could be tobi now, if you reread kakashi gaiden after what i post your mind will be blown.

First, there are separate two sequences of panels which connect obito feeling a certain type of despondency and uncertainty and then going next panel a wide shot of the moon. The moon in the first sequence is out of place because it's primary function is not establishing setting or time of day. Go check them out

There was nothing there to do with the will of fire but lesser sentiments and perceptions of heroes.

The fact obito has goggles means he graduated to a mask!

There is no other black hair exactly like obito's except for tobi's (who cares, right?)

HUGE PART!!! This also is sequential panel interpretation but it is very probable to mean something. There is a sequence which overlaps kakashi's face and obito's to play on the two sharingans in two people, in the same sequence there is blackness, and the words within the blackness ask, "where am i? Have i died?" It then has panals going one measure of kakashi's sharingan in one panel and blackness in the other. See, it then ends with yondaime exclaiming, "you're finally up!" It misdirected intentionally to ensure you think the words in the darkness are kakashi and he is coming to BUT when at beginning or ending of sequence of panels the symmetry or rule of that sequence is to include both obito and kakashi. The darkness does not apply to kakashi either because he has already used the vision of his new sharingan. See for yourself and no, i don't care ho w the anime did it. That darkness was obito waking in illustrative parallel to kakashi. Its quite a clever sequence if you ask me. The fact that kakashi had a spiritual "Dipping of the toes to se if water cold" regarding death when he used the mangekyo in pain invasion. Itscrare for a writer to do that sort if thong more than once for the same character, i really think was obito.

HUUUUGE!! This may have been mentioned already but just before obito "peaces out" kakashi promises obito to protect rin at cost of his life. And the header for the last intermission of kakashi gaiden is, dun dun dun, "the wish entrusted" so.props to everyone who knew that already and dealt patiently with the likes of me.

In several conversations there are accusations of big mouth and empty words and so forth.

Technically, obito did say he would surpass kakashi when his sharingan will awake!

Kinda huge, when minato was having heart to heart with obito, he infers to him since kakashi was the son of such a legendary genius, he would think of tobi and rin as "nobodies "

To answer my old post and offer a tidbit for zero, rin had not the time to examine obito for internal injuries, it was strictly a rush to transplant the eye. Afterwards, the enemy was nearby and rin was no longer tending to tobi medically because of the last enemy's close proximity making her nervous.

Half of obito's body was not crushed, its more correct to say the majority of his body was crushed, the only part left exposed was his left arm and left part of face. Whole torso and both legs under rock.

HIS OTHER SIDE OF FACE WAS ONLY PINNED AND NOT CRUSHED!!! I believe obito recieved the appearance of severe injurywhen in fact he was merely pinned, NOT CRUSHED! The initial impact of a boulder gave him his external signs of injury while knocking him down yet collapsed among other rocks so that he was pinned, again, not crushed. The darkness sequence immediately follows and and chapter closes with the scene at hanani bridge and explanation of heroes of the sharingan /heroes of bridge. Obito regaining consciousness
would be the exact same day or night kakashi, rin and yondaime actually end up completing the mission and blowing up the bridge.

For paulbee, there mardy several panels of obito and kakashi sizing each other up and staringveach other down. Obito is actually a little taller but probably not substantial to any argument.

Rereading kakashi gaiden was like getting to the end of sixth sense ( decade old movie). Obito's attitude i can see turning into tobi ONLY IF MANIPULATRD BY AN ANTI-HERO SAVIOUR. What IM thinking is... just like kabuto, madara, zetsu, or older brother or somebody secretly observed and stalked obito. Orochimaru did it with kabuto, madara/tobi directly interfered with nagato and "gave him " the rinnegan and he was none the wiser. Orochimaru could have taken a battered obito, coveting sharingan but changed mind because having the set is what he needs to get what he wants. Danzou could have stages many things about the mission in order to "free up" a sharingan.obito's space time eyes could have been predicted if any immediate kin also displayed similar abilities. All kinds of reasons to covet his eyes and create the scenario to grab the eye and also obito. To make him a pawn.

[Afro Thunda]

But wasn't Tobi a full grown man when he fought the 4th Hokage? Obito should still be little then yea? So there's no way Obito can be Tobi unless he got a body exchange.

This is true. That and the fact that if Tobi were Obito, we'd have to believe that he leveled his Sharingan, the same one he had just acquired moments before losing to rocks, all the way up to one capable of controlling the Kyuubi in a matter of (supposedly) months, no more than a year. AND that in that same span of time, he acquired the ability to summon said Kyuubi.

So in about a year, Obito completely outgrows Kakashi, goes from killed by rocks by regular jack-off ninjas to tangling with the 4th Hokage and giving him problems... That's just too much for me to try and swallow for the Tobi = Obito theory to work.

[almara]

well, technically the 4th hokage gave tobi problems and forced him to flee, but you're right, the exponential growth is a bit too extreme. it would be like naruto instantly gaining complete control of the kyubi the moment he gratuated from the academy. i would certainly say that it isnt obito, its some1 older.

[Rlinfamous]

This is true. That and the fact that if Tobi were Obito, we'd have to believe that he leveled his Sharingan, the same one he had just acquired moments before losing to rocks, all the way up to one capable of controlling the Kyuubi in a matter of (supposedly) months, no more than a year. AND that in that same span of time, he acquired the ability to summon said Kyuubi.

So in about a year, Obito completely outgrows Kakashi, goes from killed by rocks by regular jack-off ninjas to tangling with the 4th Hokage and giving him problems... That's just too much for me to try and swallow for the Tobi = Obito theory to work.

The Kyuubi Attack flashbacks looked more like 5 years in the future than 1 year, to be fair. Kakashi seems to have gone from a young teen in the Gaiden to a late teen at the time of the Kyuubi attack. Compare between chapters 239 and 502.

The translation I read for chapter 239 stated that the Obito flashback took place 10 years before the series started... that's obviously a mistranslation or something.

[knife eater]

Its plausible obito survived through miraculous mangekyo awakening. Remember, some of the eye users in the manga, like nagato, had "helpful interference " in their lives to harness extreme power but to do another's bidding. Madara or danzou could have been theoretically tailing or spying him each for their own selfish reasons, especially if obito is from a known spacetime line of sharingans. Read my super long post just above for tidbits gaining meaning in retrospect and rereading kakashi gaiden. Obito was not crushed, he was merely pinned. Half his face was obviously not crushed because he was awake.with a fully functioning brain. The rock covered more than half. Hid body, if it had crushed at all it would have destroyed entirely his whole chest, neck, both legs and only half his head and most of left arm would be all that was left. Read kakashi gaiden again, the rock does not look as fatal anymore. He did not let rin tend or inspect his body with medical jutsu, she was permitted only to use medical jutsu to transplant the eye, further use of medical jutsu would have Been used to stable kakashi and the rock reinforcements arrived too soon for ant chance to be examined by rin at last min. It really seems obito had all the groundwork from those emotional occurrencs prior to awakening sharingan, to transform into tobi if someone like madara or orochimaru or even danzo got to his unconscious body or barely conscious body. He most like dimension jytsudvoutta there after a bad dream and bad psychic energy :0

[paulbee]

Look Tobi can only be Obito if he were lying about giving the Rinnegan to Nagato...And at this point I don't think so.