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  1. #31
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by almara View Post
    well konohamaru wont be able to add an element to his rasengan, if minato could do it then he wont be able to do it either, also konohamaru isnt an uzumaki or a jinchuriki so he doesnt have the stamina or chakra pool that naruto has.

    also Zero, you are wrong that water and fire cancels each other out, there is no proof of that afaik, fire is just weak against water. as i see it, the only 1 that could possibly do it currently in the narutoverse is naruto, he has enough stamina and chakra to create 4 clones+himself and each can create a nature transformed(transforming his nature type chakra of wind and change it into fire, earth, water and lightning) rasen shuriken, each with a different element and then do what minato did with naruto and made the ultimate rasengan by merging them or just make a huge rasengan with each clone adding each elemental type of chakra to the rasengan atleast in theory.

    the real badass version would be the yin/yang version of the rasengan.
    I didn't meant that water and fire cancels itself out, I said that all of those elements will cancel itself out, like water cancels fire, while fire cancels wind and so on, leaving only chakra-manipulation without nature-manipulation, unless a new sub-element is created from a fusion of those elements, but that is already a kekkei genkai.

    No, Konohomaru has the potential to do it, because he has the required KB skills to do it (something that not even Minato or Kakashi had and supposedly beside those two - Konohamaru and Naruto - no one has). As long as he masters his element, he should be able to do it, especially since he has tons of more talent than Naruto (not to mention his lineage isn't anything weak as well).

    If Kakashi can pull out a Chidori a few times a day, then that already means that most of the notable ninjas have enough chakra to make it as well (a little lol, but that's how it is ;P).

    Naruto's Rasenshuriken is more like an Wind styled Odama Rasengan, rather than just a Resengan with wind manipulation. The first version after the element was added, was the same size as an normal rasengan (that's where Naruto tested his new version with Kakashi's normal one, thus injuring Hatake's hand).

    The thing with Rasengan itself, it was never complete. Without a diversion actions like KB, 4th's jutsu, or others, it's almost impossible to hit a ninja (not counting normal people and the movies). The reason why F:RS is big, is for the same reason that Jiraya's Great Rasengan is, since it's bigger it can block incoming attacks and is easier to hit with, plus it packs more power.

    The normal chakra itself, is a mixture of all elements chakra, although it will still tide to the one to which the user is more attuned to. Not to mention, that the only known people who could use all elemental ninjutsu are So6p and Nagato (well Madara can use at least 3: water, earth and fire, plus the sub-element: wood, but that's probably thanks to H-face boost).



  2. #32
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    you're forgetting that just doing the rasenshuriken takes a huge amount of stamina(uzumaki ftw!) AND chakra(kurama+uzumaki ftw!), konohamaru has neither so he wont be able to do it, i do agree that konohamaru does have some KB skill but you need to realize, that the KB split the chakra evenly among the clones, konohamaru simply doesnt have the necesary chakra to even try training, and i doubt he ever will as it takes a HUGE chakra pool and he needs uzumaki level stamina to do the training which was why minato never learned how to do the rasenshuriken, it wasnt due to lacking knowledge or skill about the KB which minato had quite a lot of knowledge about considering he used a version of it himself. it basically comes down to having naruto level chakra pool and stamina, and konhamaru doesnt have that, so he cant make it.

    also kakashi isnt using chidori, he is using raikiri there is a difference eventho they look similar they are different.

    and you are wrong about what you say about normal chakra is a mixture of all elements, it isnt. normal chakra is attuned to a certain element based on the person's attunement, which means that any1s "normal chakra" is always attuned to a certain element, so your term of "normal chakra" isnt really appropriate here, as normal chakra would be element attuned chakra, unique to 1 person but at the same time you are kinda right, that eventho it isnt a mixture of all elements, it can be nature transformed into every type of element, which is why some1 like kakashi, who is a lightning attuned user, can use water, fire etc.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    ^ Read my post dammit, then start spouting nonsense.


    No, Raikiri is a nickname of Chidori, it's the same thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    The normal chakra itself, is a mixture of all elements chakra, although it will still tide to the one to which the user is more attuned to.
    Normal chakra still has other elements, because if it didn't then you wouldn't be able to use more than one element (and most ninja can use from 2-3), yet I had indeed stated that it tilts (sorry wrong word before ;P) into one direction (element) more than others. That's what is called a base element, which means that there are more in the mix. Still, most ninja doesn't have enough of the other elements to cast jutsu of more than 2-3 elements.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    If Kakashi can pull out a Chidori a few times a day, then that already means that most of the notable ninjas have enough chakra to make it as well (a little lol, but that's how it is ;P).

    Naruto's Rasenshuriken is more like an Wind styled Odama Rasengan, rather than just a Resengan with wind manipulation. The first version after the element was added, was the same size as an normal rasengan (that's where Naruto tested his new version with Kakashi's normal one, thus injuring Hatake's hand).
    I stated here that if Kakashi (which is basically the only character needs to constantly check his chakra reserves ) can do a Chidori/Raikiri a few times a day, then other notable ninjas can perform jutsu of this quantity of chakra as well.

    As you can see, Rasenshuriken isn't a Wind Elemented Rasengan, it's a new jutsu that was possible thanks to Naruto's great chakra capacity, it's more of a follow up of Odama Rasengan.

    When Naruto was still working on his jutsu, his first notable version, one that can be just called a Wind Rasengan, was the size of a normal Rasengan, but already proved to be stronger than a normal Rasengan (and it was still incomplete). What I meant is that Konohomaru might be able to create a similar version to Naruto's trial jutsu.



  4. #34
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    uhm no, chidori and raikiri are 2 entirely different jutsus considering the chidori is an A-rank jutsu and the raikiri is a S-rank jutsu, they have the same strengths and weaknesses, its kinda like naruto's normal rasengan and odama rasengan, they are the basically the same, except the odama rasengan is larger, more destructive and more taxing, and so is raikiri compared to the chidori. didnt you find it weird that if they are the same then why do sasuke call his chidori and kakashi called his raikiri, if they idd were the same then why wouldnt they call it the same.

    you may have a point about konohamaru being able to potentially make the trial version of naruto's jutsu, but again that still comes down to having naruto levels of chakra and stamina, just to be able to learn it in the forseeable future using the KB training method but i do agree that he could most likelly make it if he had naruto levels of stamina and chakra.

    also if the the futon rasenshuriken was a version of the odama rasengan then it would be called futon odama rasenshuriken and if you look at it in the manga you will see that it is in fact much smaller than an odama rasengan, it is about the size of a normal rasengan but thats just me nitpicking.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Actually, it's way bigger than Odama Rasengan. Odama is around the size of his head, or little bigger (while normal Rasengan is the size of a fist/hand), on the other hand, Rasenshuriken is at least the size of half of his body, while Giant Rasengan is bigger than his entire body.

    Besides what's the point in giving his new killer move a long name ? Especially since he named it 'Rasenshuriken' because it sounded cool (and probably because of how it looks like)... although it wasn't clearly stated if it was Chouji's joke that made Naruto proceed towards throwing it or not... most likely the first option, since he said that it was 'cooler' to hit with it directly .

    Because Sasuke isn't named a copy ninja, he wants to distinguish himself as much as possible, from the time he was a little kid (originally so that his family would notice and praise him).

    I'm not sure if the databook actually separates them, but I'm pretty sure that if, then it was only when they were comparing Genin's version with a Jonin/legendanry shinobi's version. It would be strength if they had the same power, but otherwise they aren't different at all, it's just that Sasuke wasn't at that level then to fully utilize it.



  6. #36
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    the size of the rasenshuriken actually differs a bit, sometimes it is slightly smaller than the odama rasengan and other times its around the size of the normal rasengan, so it is somewhere between odama rasengan and normal rasengan in size which kinda makes sense if you think about it.

    as i said in a previous post, the chidori and raikiri are 2 different jutsus, chidori is an A-rank jutsu and the raikiri is a S-rank jutsu, so you cant tell me that they are the same jutsu, just called different things and each of them are being ranked differently that doesnt make much sense. what i said in a previous post still stands, they are like odama rasengan and normal rasengan, they might do pretty much the same thing, but they are different.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Greed-sama's Avatar
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    My name is Corey and I am an asshole. I get excessively drunk at inappropriate times, disregard social norms, indulge in every whim, ignore the consequences of my actions, mock idiots and posers, sleep with random women, and just generally act like a raging dick head. I contribute to society in no way what so ever

    Proud fan of the Oujou White Knights!

  8. #38
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by almara View Post
    the size of the rasenshuriken actually differs a bit, sometimes it is slightly smaller than the odama rasengan and other times its around the size of the normal rasengan, so it is somewhere between odama rasengan and normal rasengan in size which kinda makes sense if you think about it.

    as i said in a previous post, the chidori and raikiri are 2 different jutsus, chidori is an A-rank jutsu and the raikiri is a S-rank jutsu, so you cant tell me that they are the same jutsu, just called different things and each of them are being ranked differently that doesnt make much sense. what i said in a previous post still stands, they are like odama rasengan and normal rasengan, they might do pretty much the same thing, but they are different.
    Are you a troll ?

    It certainly is bigger than a Rasengan, it's even the size of Naruto:
    Spoiler!


    If you haven't noticed, this jutsu is shaped differently from a normal Rasengan. The thing made from tiny wind chakra blades, that is around the core is an important element to it, the one that can cut people, or even mountains. The core itself is more of an exploding device that makes those tiny blades explode rotationally in every direction. It's the reason why it's called a Rasenshurkien (spiral shurikan). It's more of a new jutsu based on the Resangan, similarly how Rasengan is based on the Bijuu Dama, yet their power and function, or even technical aspects differ strongly.

    Greed-sama already put pages about Rakiri and Chidori.



  9. #39
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    yes, i have to agree with greed-sama, but that also kinda provides proof for how rasenshuriken is just the rasengan with wind element, and not the whole odama look alike thing that zero argues about, if chidori and raikiri is the same then the same must be true about the rasengan and odama rasengan, making zero's arguements about rasenshuriken looking/being more like odama rasengan pointless due to the fact that it is the same as the normal rasengan, when the differences between odama rasengan and rasengan is the same as the differences between chidori and raikiri but the arguement i keep coming back to is that why, if the chidori is the exact same, are they ranked differently and they look differently, with the chidori being white in color and the raikiri being blue in color, and the only thing i can see fit into this is that while they have the same strengths and weaknesses, the raikiri is an evolved version of the chidori, just like the odama rasengan is an evolved version of the rasengan.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Odama Rasengan is a different jutsu, because it is done differently. It needs at least one clone, holding it with the original (because of the chakra density and weight ?)or with another clone, it can't be done without using KB, while a Rasengan can be done without KB. Not to mention that it utilize a greater amount of chakra.

    No, Chidori (Sasuke) and Raikiri (Kakashi) are the same thing, just like Konohomaru's Rasengan is the same as Naruto's Rasengan, yet you can see that it is less destructive and smaller(?) in Konohamaru's hands. It's not about packing more chakra, it's rather about doing it more skillfully thanks to the accumulated experience from performing it countless times.

    You could say that Odama Rasengan is a variation of Rasengan, while Raikiri works exactly the same as Chidori, it doesn't change a single thing. You can't call it an improved or evolved version, when it isn't different at all, as it doesn't improve anything. The only difference might be the experience in handling this jutsu, thus making it more effective.



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