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  1. #31
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    They Should have used an Odama Rassengan for the experiment, because now they have tipped their hand to Tobi, he'll just change tactics.

    Now, all Tobi has to do is use Susanoo and The Rinnegan's Chakra/Jutsu absorbing techniques together as a Combo, to keep our heroes at bay while the Juubi fully manifests.

    (Assuming he can use the two together like Madara does)
    Susnaoo requires 2 MS eyes or he would have used it long time ago.

    He can use the Rinnegans ability to absorb chakra rather than phase out. Wont work on Taijutsu though.


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  2. #32
    Ok so I've been reading the last two chapters over and over, looking at the same panels and I just don't get it.

    Kakashi's explanation of Tobi's jutsu just being one jutsu does not make sense. How can it be one jutsu when there are two different effects? The first being that Tobi can warp anything into and out of his dimension (when he does this he can either warp just the object or both himself and the object), and the second being that he allows attacks/solid objects to phase through him with his body still seemingly in tact or at least visible to the naked eye.

    It just doesn't make sense how he is allowing things to phase right through him without that being sucked into his dimension as well. This must mean that when things phase through Tobi, his body is either an illusion produced by a genjutsu, or some other kind of jutsu but there is no way that it can be just one jutsu.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by lunchroomclassic View Post
    Ok so I've been reading the last two chapters over and over, looking at the same panels and I just don't get it.

    Kakashi's explanation of Tobi's jutsu just being one jutsu does not make sense. How can it be one jutsu when there are two different effects? The first being that Tobi can warp anything into and out of his dimension (when he does this he can either warp just the object or both himself and the object), and the second being that he allows attacks/solid objects to phase through him with his body still seemingly in tact or at least visible to the naked eye.

    It just doesn't make sense how he is allowing things to phase right through him without that being sucked into his dimension as well. This must mean that when things phase through Tobi, his body is either an illusion produced by a genjutsu, or some other kind of jutsu but there is no way that it can be just one jutsu.
    Hes using the same jutsu in different ways. When he phases out hes using it on his body only by creating a barrier space around it. When he wants to warp someone or warp himself somewhere he pulls it all the way in.


    Compare it to the 4th Hokages Thunder god seal transporting himself with time space ninjutsu and the Time space barrier he used to deflect the Bijuu bomb. Same jutsu different application.


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  4. #34
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lunchroomclassic View Post
    Ok so I've been reading the last two chapters over and over, looking at the same panels and I just don't get it.

    Kakashi's explanation of Tobi's jutsu just being one jutsu does not make sense. How can it be one jutsu when there are two different effects? The first being that Tobi can warp anything into and out of his dimension (when he does this he can either warp just the object or both himself and the object), and the second being that he allows attacks/solid objects to phase through him with his body still seemingly in tact or at least visible to the naked eye.

    It just doesn't make sense how he is allowing things to phase right through him without that being sucked into his dimension as well. This must mean that when things phase through Tobi, his body is either an illusion produced by a genjutsu, or some other kind of jutsu but there is no way that it can be just one jutsu.
    You raise very good questions and I am not sure that I am quite satisfied with Kakashi's explanation (SO FAR). When Tobi Phases himself, there are no visible effects, Objects just seem to pass through him. But, when he Completely Shifts or Sucks himself and others to the other dimension, there is a Spiraling warp of space centered around his Sharingan. Plus, the object being sucked Visible appears to disappear into his Sharingan.

    The Two Jutsus both involve dimensional shifting. If Tobi Merely Emits a Barrier around his body that phases attackers attacks or object into the alternate dimension, then a person passing through him should momentarily notice the difference, they should see the other dimension as they intersect with Tobi's body.

    The only explanation I see is if Tobi can shift himself partially into the other dimension, but not completely, so that photons of light can still interact with him. However if this were so, so too should heat energy, meaning that Tobi should be singed by heat if he were only allowing objects to pass through his personal physical space volume.

    Even so I think it still qualifies as two separate jutsus.

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  5. #35
    Senior Member Afro Thunda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    You raise very good questions and I am not sure that I am quite satisfied with Kakashi's explanation (SO FAR).
    Rightfully so, seeing as how Kakashi has yet to explain anything at all. He's only made a claim so far. The explanation likely comes next chapter. In any case, his claim is based on the fact that Tobi can't phase AND warp objects at the same time. If he's in the process of doing one, like phasing, he can't move to suck someone into his dimension at the exact same time.

    If they were two separate jutsus, there wouldn't be any reason why Tobi couldn't use them both at the same time. This is likely along the lines of what Kakashi's thinking, hence his claim that both abilities are products of the same jutsu.

  6. #36
    SIMS for short >:] StareIntoMySharingan's Avatar
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    It could be that Tobi's time-space abilities are to Kakashi's Kamui, what Sasuke's Enton release are to Amaterasu.

    And assuming this is true, then it would mean Tobi has access to Kamui which would apparently allow Tobi to negate Kakashi's assault on Gedo Mazo, and justify Tobi's comment that Kakashi's Kamui would have no effect on himself.

    It would also point to the crazed theory of Tobi really being Obito. Perhaps Obito was rescued, alteredm and even trained by Madara before he passed away.

    Also, it's only a matter of time before Naruto's allies and Madara himself make it to the battle field.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by StareIntoMySharingan View Post
    It could be that Tobi's time-space abilities are to Kakashi's Kamui, what Sasuke's Enton release are to Amaterasu.

    And assuming this is true, then it would mean Tobi has access to Kamui which would apparently allow Tobi to negate Kakashi's assault on Gedo Mazo, and justify Tobi's comment that Kakashi's Kamui would have no effect on himself.

    It would also point to the crazed theory of Tobi really being Obito. Perhaps Obito was rescued, alteredm and even trained by Madara before he passed away.

    Also, it's only a matter of time before Naruto's allies and Madara himself make it to the battle field.
    Of course, if Tobi and Kakashi are each using eyes that belong to the same pair, than it's possible that Kakashi has the "Kamui" eye, and Tobi himself can't use that technique. It'd be like if someone took Sasuke's Amaterasu eye and another took his Enton eye.

  8. #38
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    Okay here's my theory behind this chapter:
    the dimension that kakashi sends objects to, and the one that we've seen tobi travel to with sasuke and karin are the same. furthermore when tobi phases, he sends his mass to this dimension (from now on referred to as "B") leaving his ghost body in the real world from now on referred to as "A".
    Now imagine A and B as two dimensions coexisting within the same space, overlapping, but unaffected by each other. So tobi's appearance in A while phased is not a genjutsu or illusion set up to make enemies think that he is tangible, but actually a remnant of his body while he is existing in B (this part im still working on). All his senses remain in A, that is the risk of the jutsu. He can only estimate what exists in B and where it is when he phases, but ultimately he is blind to dangers in B unless he teleports the traditional way.
    So hypothetically if tobi went to the same place in A where kakashi tore off diedara's arm, and then phased, he could trip over diedara's arm in B but appear to trip over nothing in A. Now when kakashi sent the kunai to B, tobi phased and because of this was still susceptible to the kunai and because of this it just grazed him.
    This is when my thoery becomes a bit flawed:
    When kakashi sent naruto's rasengan to B, tobi was phased but did not receive the hit immediately when his head passed the same region of space that the rasengan had been, but instead there was a delay.
    However what bothers me is the rasengan should have disappeared the moment naruto lost contact with it, as he could no longer maintain the chakra rotation and supply. The solution? There is a time delay between A's reality and B's reality, enough (id estimate 1 second) for tobi to move through naruto and then allow that impact on his arm that should have happened on his head.

    I know theres a few holes in this like the time delay i just mentioned, so apart from those any thoughts?

  9. #39
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaara Kazekage View Post
    Uhm, it makes no sense that Kakashi would be able to see "trough both dimensions" now, when he didn't before, to me it even sounds stupid. I'm pretty sure he just figured out how to get the Rasengan back from the other dimension, he clearly caught the idea that they were using the same technique when Tobi blocked his Kamui on the GM. So he tested out warping the Rasengan back, instead of just away.

    But does this mean we will see Kakashi start using Can't-Touch-Me-No-Jutsu? Not in this fight ofc, but if there ever is an after the war thing. Like when we see Naruto with Hinata 10 years from now with baby Jiraya running around and Naruto is Hokage. We see like Naruto have an epic fight with Konahamaru then after the fight Kakashi comes teleporting in like trolololololo.
    No, actually it make sense, otherwise Tobi wouldn't have been able to teleport so accurately, if he wasn't able to see from that other dimension, right ? There are times where only his heads disappears (with means his eyes from that part of earth as well), yet he is still able to catch Gai's weapons or kick Kakashi's kunai, that is, assuming that he shifts partially himself to other dimension. Still, how would he know where to appear (from that dimension) if he couldn't see through it ? He doesn't seem to use any markers (unless he can produce Zetsu Spores or something) and he doesn't appear to have any sensing powers.

    "WHITE-HOT" might refer to Naruto in his KCM as well, or rather it's probably it ;P.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirxxx View Post
    I hope you're right, cause I was JUST about to point out how Tobi should've taken a Susanoo arrow to the chest months ago (during the Kakashi vs. Sasuke fight). Also: third-degree burned by Deidara's exploding Bunshin, second-degree burned by Happy Pain's missile, and first-degree burned by a smack from a detached Deidara arm :-/

    Actually, there's a lot of holes that open up if your theory is not correct. Has Tobi just been living in constant fear, getting smacked around by random attacks and limbs since Kakashi activated his Mangankyo?
    You have a point there, just saying that Tobi wasn't using his jutsu at those times doesn't sound to well, because this would really mean that Tobi is scared of Kakashi transporting something when Tobi uses his jutsu. If that were the case, then Tobi would had quickly eliminated Kakashi, way, way before the war, probably right after hearing about Kakashi's Kamui from Daidera. It would be even more strange if he didn't knew about this drawback.



  10. #40
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    I hope kakashi doesn't make that bold claim of "one jutsu" only to have himself or a teammate succumb to tobi's genjutsu. Poor konan had such a painstakingly constructed analysis of tobi's phasing and warping that when she beat it tobi sacrificed a hidden eye to survive and then cast genjutsu from his one trick pony.

    Well done allusion with naruto's rasengan. It was plain old vanilla rasengan and it is first to actually deliver a blow, great allusion to minato's fight with tobi when the same thing happened. I wonder what tobi is thinking now and what other symmetrical occurrences will take place between naruto and kakashi defeating tobi and minato's battle to delay the "mysterious evil".
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