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  1. #11
    Veteran Member luimac's Avatar
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    well is true that the 1st gets put in a whole new lvl after this chapter, but at the same time so does his brother 2nd and 3rd. Madara is considered the strongest in the world but the 1st manage to beat him, so that puts him at least at the same lvl. We know that the 2nd got put as Kage while 1st was alive so this implies that 2nd was at least almost at the same lvl as the 1st. The monster would be the 3rd, both this "strongest in the world" ninjas alive and they make a 13-16 year old Kage? I dont think even the 4th was as strong as the 3rd in his prime. Based on those facts and also couple of other things:
    1. 3rd wanted Jiraya as 4th but Jiraya-sama decided to follow Oro and travel the world as age told him.
    2. 4th became Kage when 3rd was very much past his prime.

    My opinion of ninja strengh based on fighters on their prime would be:

    1. Sarutobi 3rd Hokage
    2. 1st Hokage
    3. Uchiha Madara
    4. Jiraya and 2nd Hokage
    5. 4th and maybe coming close Oro since those two were the candidates for 4th.

    Just my opinion.

  2. #12
    Preacher of Haruhiism draciel's Avatar
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    luimac
    well is true that the 1st gets put in a whole new lvl after this chapter, but at the same time so does his brother 2nd and 3rd. Madara is considered the strongest in the world but the 1st manage to beat him, so that puts him at least at the same lvl. We know that the 2nd got put as Kage while 1st was alive so this implies that 2nd was at least almost at the same lvl as the 1st. The monster would be the 3rd, both this "strongest in the world" ninjas alive and they make a 13-16 year old Kage? I dont think even the 4th was as strong as the 3rd in his prime. Based on those facts and also couple of other things:
    1. 3rd wanted Jiraya as 4th but Jiraya-sama decided to follow Oro and travel the world as age told him.
    2. 4th became Kage when 3rd was very much past his prime.

    My opinion of ninja strengh based on fighters on their prime would be:

    1. Sarutobi 3rd Hokage
    2. 1st Hokage
    3. Uchiha Madara
    4. Jiraya and 2nd Hokage
    5. 4th and maybe coming close Oro since those two were the candidates for 4th.

    Just my opinion.
    I will have to disagree with you:

    Yondaime was hokage about 12-13 years before the story started and when th story starts Sandaime is about 60 years old. J-man was about 50 and I think he wasn't much pass his prime, if he was actually passed his prime. Sandaime would be about 50 years when he started to feel old or did he just wanted to stop is what you say but I still think Yondaime ought to b stronger than him at that time. Yondaime would be around the age Kakashi is at the beginning yet he already had developed such jutsu's as Rasengan and the Death God Seal and most important FTGT which is implied to have made the war for Konoha (Minato was known as the miracle who saved Konoha's war and we know how hw was known) so I think there are good chances that Yondaime had already surpassed Sandaime at that age and Sandaime couldn't have been that much worse from his prime.
    My list would be:

    1 - Yondaime
    2 - Sandaime
    3 - Shodaime
    4 - Nidaime
    5 - Godaime (note that we don't know much of her fighting abilities in the sense of direct fight as we only saw her fighting once. She is still a sannin so she must have jutsus and several abilities useful or else sh wouldn't be made Hokage but we still haven't seen that much)

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  3. #13
    darkness pitch black atriede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by icedout921 View Post
    Maybe some of yall can help me clear something up.

    Ok Madra is suppose to be this big immortal limitless power having bad guy right. Well than why would he lose to the first.

    Now I know the first is strong but it seems to me that the 3rd was the strongest Hokage when he was in his prime. From all reports he was a genius of all geniuses and learned the most justus. Also as a old man he fought a ressurcted first and second Hokage. He held his own against both of them he was scared to let the foruth join the fight however. So it would seem to me that the 3rd or the fourth would be the strongest Hokage.

    If this is the case than is Madra really that strong? Could Pein still possibly be stronger than him? Or Jiryaya for instance who trained the fourth and is definitely at Hokage level?
    From what we know from the manga and from what Kishi has told us the Fourth was the most powerfull of the Hokages in Konoha and the Third was the second most powerful. This is simply a fact rather than my opinion. Jiraiya is probably as powerfull if not more powerful than Sandaime but we'll brush that aside for now as speculation.
    As Madara lost to the First this makes him weaker than the First, as well as the third and Fourth who are even more powerfull. So far this is clear cut and simple.

    However Madara is head of Akatsuki. This contains members such as Kakuzu who defeated the First Hookage and is therefore obviously has a skill level equivalent of a Hokage (remember Madara got trounced by the first). This shows us that Madara is not leader of Akatsuki because of his combat skills. This would not make sense because Kakuzu, an Akatsuki member, has greater combat skill than Madara, as does probably Pein who is the direct boss of Kakuzu. In fact Pein has the ability to keep all Akatsuki members in check. If Kakuzu defeated the first Hokage and yet is weaker than Pein then how strong is Pein. This leads me to believe that Madara is head of Akatsuki not for his combat skill (he is weaker than Kakuzu and much weaker than Pein) but for his one of his abilities, perhaps his ability to control the Kyuubi. Perhaps Madara is being used by Pein to that end.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Shinhan's Avatar
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    I remember kakuzu stating he fought the first, not that he defeated the first. I think you are wrong there.

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  5. #15
    Veteran Member luimac's Avatar
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    blue is correct and also the 4th was claim to be the best ninja konoha ever produced.... not the strongest ninja or kage in history. Specially after the fact that Madara was considered the STRONGEST NINJA IN THE WORLD and 1st beat him. that is more of a proof that 1st, in his prime, was stronger than the 4th. In my opinion.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Shinhan's Avatar
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    nah i think the fourth was the strongest. I actually think the fourth could take on the first and second at the same time. He may even beat all four other hokages together. he was bad ass. konoha loosing a battle. Minato swoops in and takes out fifty ninja. I'm not saying the were kage level, but probably chuunin and jounin.

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  7. #17
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    The best ninja that Konoha has ever produced. I don't get how people can misunderstand that. That means that he, the 4th, was the best ninja in Konoha's history. If you want to talk actual strength then Tsunade would be your winner. In my opinion when they say he's the best I take it that he was the best and still up to this point has been the best ninja to ever come out of Konoha which is basically what "best ninja that Konoha has ever produced" means. All you have to do is look at the key words in that phrase; best, ninja, Konoha, ever.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Shinhan's Avatar
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    Plus it says that Naruto will surpass the fourth. it was said like its something no one has accomplished yet. if someone would have stated naruto could one day surpass the third then I would think maybe.

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  9. #19
    Veteran Member luimac's Avatar
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    ..... well... who is a better ninja, Naruto or Shikamaru? No doubt Naruto could and would kill shikamaru if they ever fought... but who is the better ninja? Shikamaru. See the difference?
    the 4th was, without a doubt, strong, but to say that "best ninja konoha ever produced" means he beats all the other Kage's after all the info Kishi has given us UNTIL NOW, is just being naive or just plain favoritism.
    Minato probably was overall the best ninja ever produced.. like objectively speaking if jiraya was good in ninjutsu and taijutsu and 4th was good in taijutsu, ninjutsu and genjutsu everything else being equal would make the 4th a BETTER NINJA but not STRONGER than Jiraya. Specially after all the current info.
    If Kishi comes out with info that proves what I say UNTIL NOW wrong, hey so be it... but UNTIL NOW the 4th might had been the best overall ninja in Konoha's history but not the strongest.

  10. #20
    Madara is not the strongest ninja. We have yet to see him fight and it is just hear say. Also Madara might have been strong because he was the strongest of all Uchihas and had an army of them so I would lose in a fight against them with my army so I would consider Madara the strongest. Also he could have gotten his power from the kyuubi using him to destroy nations.

    Finally we can not say that the 1st is stronger then Madara and therefore the strongest ever simply because he defeated Madara. For all we know it could have been a bloodline limit that was the perfect matchup for Madaras attack.

    Seeing that this is all speculation we have to go on fact. That would be the 3rd or the 4th because these are the only two that we have actually seen them use some of their skillz

    Also 4th could just be called the best konoha produced because he saved the village single handedly by sealing the kyuubi infront of the whole village. even at the cost of his life
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