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  1. #21
    Senior Member
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    Aug 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    ^ The thing about natural energy is interesting and quite possible sine Kabuto already confirmed that So6p was using some kind of Sage Mode or at least utilized natural energy.

    Actually, we know how his eyes looked like, here is the picture of both sons (colors aren't confirmed):
    - Younger:

    - Elder:

    As you can see, his eye pattern, is exactly the same as the symbol of the Uzumaki clan. It's possible that the Younger one, chose it as the symbol of his clan in homage to his brother (after all, he probably still loved him):

    BTW. I found this draft on the net, it shows a possible(?) route of doujutsu degradation:
    That's interesting, I guess in the version I read online the image was too low res to see the pattern of the eyes clearly. The fact that it is different to any form of the Rinnegan or any other eye type we have seen is interesting. The fact that it is also similar to the Uzumaki clan's crest is also very interesting. This could be a hint as to why the Uzumaki clan (Nagato) was a good candidate for the Rinnegan.

    The difference in pattern adds a little more credibility to the idea that the Elder Son's eyes may have been closer to that of the EMS than the Rinnegan. The pattern of the Elder Son's eyes also remind me of Tobi's swirl mask. I am still suspicious that their are two aspects of the Mangekyou sharingan, as we have seen, Kakashi and Tobi both have eye powers that seem to manipulate space. Powers that seem quite different from the ones that Itachi, Sasuke, and Madara have shown. We still don't know enough to confirm why different Mangekyou seem to have different abilities but some are the same. Perhaps this is due to the impurity of the bloodline. Perhaps the Elder Son had all of the Mangekyou abilities that would be another possible explanation for why Tobi needs Sasuke. Perhaps Madara's EMS was incomplete, Sasuke still has a chance to awaken the true Eyes of the Elder brother which are also needed to create the true Rinnegan.

    We know that Madara was attempting to recreate the bloodline of the Sage of Six Path's within himself but we also know that he failed for some reason. Sasuke seems to be key in his plan of recreating that power but so far we haven't really seen any indication that Sasuke possesses something that Madara lacked. So perhaps it is that Madara made a mistake and tried to complete the Rinnegan without all of the necessary parts, as a result his Rinnegan was incomplete and so he attempted to evolve it further by giving it to another descendant of the line to develop it further. This could explain why the Rinnegan was given to Nagato. Now the eyes have absorbed Nagato's bloodline and been developed more but they still only represent one half of the who, which would explain why Nagato's rinnegan didn't possess any powers that the sharingan has. Madara himself is able to use Susanoo with his Rinnegan because he was an Uchiha who had already mastered the Mangekyou Sharingan.

    Tobi is now using Sasuke to completely master the Elder Brother's powers. Tobi has since obtained and mastered some of the powers that Madara himself did not have at the time of his death. The time/space abilities. As I said in a previous post, I think the fact that we still haven't been told how Kakashi obtained his Mangekyou Sharingan is very significant. I think there are other conditions to awakening a different set of Mangekyou powers. It is possible that Tobi understands the process of combining these powers but he needs Sasuke (the last pure blooded living Uchiha) to recreate the true power of the Elder Brother's eyes, then by combining those Eyes with the Rinnegan he already possesses, he will create the true Rinnegan, the one that only the Original Sage of Six Path's possessed.

    What I believe Tobi and Madara fail to understand though is that obtaining the power of the Sage Through scientific manipulation will not grant them the power of nature that is truly needed to control those powers the way the Original Sage was able to because he did it by mastering natural energy. As a result I think that when Tobi/Madara becomes the Jinnchuuriki of the Juubi he will lose control and the Juubi will break free. Naruto, who will have mastered the Sage Arts by that point and learned to balance Bijuu chakra with Natural energy will be the only one capable of being the Juubi's Jinchuuriki.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    You hate that because you cannot own sharingan
    Just kidding!
    火影忍者 狐忍

  3. #23
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    lol another one of these.

    - In any case even the EMS is not all powerful every jutsu has a weakness. Edo Madara doesn't represent the average Uchiha he is the pinnacle of power so of course he was meant to be menacing.

    - Also note The Tsuchikage's Dust release did destroy the other Susanoo protected Madara clones so the idea that Susnaoo is some kind of perfect defense is false.

    - We also know that a Rinnegan user could easily absorb Susanoo being made of chakra

    - Unconfirmed but I suspect the direct hit from a Kyuubi Bijuu bomb would decimate even Edo Madara's Susanoo to some extent.

    - A time space jutsu is another way to get past a Susanoo defense.

    - Using a powerful genjutsu or sound based jutsu to disrupt the users concentration is another way to get past it.

    So yeah the Sharingan has a lot of upgrades and powers but its far from flawless so I have never bought into that argument. If you lived in the Narutoverse I suppose hating it might make sense but since its just a manga whats the point?

    FYI: If I had to choose between the Tsuchikage's Dust release and the Uchiha EMS I would go with the Dust release.

    Fire type

    What chakra type are you?

  4. #24
    Senior Member
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    Aug 2011
    the sharingan obv have its limits or hasirama wouldnt have been able to defeat madara with his wood-release and bodily powers, and i think lee showed it the best, if you can predict the attack but your body cant react to the attack then the prediction is pointless and i think in part that was how hashirama defeated madara, i also think that hashirama's powers or the senju powers in general, is unlockable like the sharingan but it is a lot rarer or maybe a special condition needs to be met, like learning senjutsu(hint maybe), as the toad elder said, it unlocks your body in various ways, who knows, he might have talked about this, as mastering the natural energies comes from matering of one self.

  5. #25
    The Wise One shadowfox87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    As with every anime, as it goes on, the characters eventually develop techniques that are hax. Ex. DBZ
    DB was way better than DBZ and actually used strategy to win a fight rather than raw power. Though Naruto's pretty good with the strategy stuff. Best fight I still find was Sasori vs Old lady+Sakura because of that. Still I get you, sharingan, is a hax move.
    Currently reading/watching:
    One Piece, Naruto, Shingeki no Kyojin, Kenichi, Hajime No Ippo The Rising, Hunter x Hunter

  6. #26
    Senior Member
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    Aug 2011
    just the shere amount of things you get or are capable of using simply from this 1 doujutsu makes it the most overpowered ability in the narutoverse, even more than the rinnegan, the only reason i can see why the rinnegan is deemed superior is the fact that you can use all elements AND can resurrect ppl, and i must say, if hashirama was able to defeat madara with a fully developed sharingan then hashirama must have had some pretty ubah hax moves, not just talking about wood-release and senju power.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Lakritze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by artifice View Post

    We still don't know what the true Rinnegan really originated or how it truly devolved. The Sharingan apparently descended from the Elder son but we don't know if he had the Rinnegan itself or a modified version. I personally suspect that the Elder son did not have the true Rinnegan but rather a different eye similar to the EMS since it has already been claimed that Senju cells are needed to awaken the Rinnegan. That would not make sense if the Elder brother already had the Rinnegan. So that begs the question of where the Byakugan came from. I have a couple of theories. The simple one is that the Byakugan is a mutation of the sharingan, the result of the Elder brother's bloodline mixing with another bloodline and becoming diluted. It could also be the result of a union of the Elder brother's descendants and the younger brother's descendants, which would explain why in some ways it is superior to the sharingan and why it is prevalent in all Huuga from an early age. Since it has parts of both bloodlines it would explain why it has similarities to the Rinnegan but it is also much more toned down, it is closer to the Original Sage's eyes but weaker than the Elder Brother's because it is less pure. The other theory is that the byakugan is a mutation caused by natural energy. There have already been hints that many of the bloodlines (an perhaps even the Original Sage of Six Path's abilities) are physical mutations brought on by the use of natural energy. Kabuto basically confirmed this by pointing out that Juugo's abilities are a result of his body absorbing natural energy but not being able to consciously control it. As a result his body can take on many different forms for many different purposes. When this ability is transferred to others though, via the cursed seal, it is more consistent to the user. I think that is a hint of how most of the bloodlines developed.

    The Byakugan may be a new bloodline that is really just a precursor to a physical mutation the Sage of Six Path's created in himself consciously to develop the Rinnegan. I do not believe that the Sage of Six Path's was born with the Rinnegan or any of his other powers. I believe that the Sage of Six Path's was a wise man who discovered the ability to use natural energy, absorb it into his body and use it to physically transform himself to create powerful bloodlines. We have already seen that natural energy can mutate the body, even Naruto's eyes change when he uses Sage Mode. The eyes changing is said to be a sign of a pure Sage. I believe that this is a hint to where the Eye Techniques derived from. Kabuto has also shown that there are different types of Sage mode which indicates that their are different aspects of nature to master. I believe that the Original Sage mastered all of the aspects of natural energy and obtained enlightenment, thus granting him the Eyes of God, the true Rinnegan. This would also explain why a Rinnegan user can control all 5 elements of nature. I believe that the other bloodlines are a more focused version of Juugo's ability. Juugo's bloodline is mutations caused by uncontrolled use of natural energy, I believe that most of the bloodlines are mutations caused by a specific use of natural energy. Like a supernatural evolution, the need or will of the individual paired with natural energy, develops a transformation resulting in a specific power or form that becomes a genetic trait.
    That is why I love you guys: Great assumptions. My money is on the theory that there is a (maybe historical and long forgotten) evolution: Sharingan evolved from the Byakugan, and Rinnegan from the Sharingan. A few aspects make that assumption least likely. For one, Kakashi stated that "they say the Uchiha Clan's origins lie within the Hyuga Clan" ( Further, the Rinnegan's shared eye sight is much closer to the Byakugan than to the Sharingan. The only thing that is missing is a clear Byakugan upgrade, and I think Hinata and Neji are the ones to do it.

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