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  1. #1
    Senior Member Lakritze's Avatar
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    666 Satan Why I hate the Sharingan

    At the risk of being banned off this forum:

    I am sick of it! At the very beginning of the Manga, the Sharingan was a useful technique. Being able to follow someone's movements and jutsus might come in handy. Being able to copy it the very second I learned it. Okay. But, the Sharingan itself wasn't so perfect you can't overcome it. We have seen several Shinobi (A, Bee, Naruto in SSJ4, probably Minato) who were fast enough so that the Sharingan couldn't follow. It seemed to be on equal footing with the Byakugan. It is safe to assume that the Byakugan is equally suited to see through a Genjutsu, and the Byakugan was better as well as worse than the Sharingan - depending on how you look at it. We were happy, Kishi was happy.

    Then, however, we had to learn that there is the Mangekyou Sharingan. A sh**-f*ck*** (nice and shining) Doujutsu that renders the opponent's eyes even more useless than they already are against the standard Sharingan. But okay, it was still possible to avoid the technique, and Genjutsus must be avoided anyway, or you are virtually screwed - which, by the way, surprisingly rarely happened. So, okay, there is Tsukyomi, a technique that consumes tons of chakra.

    Having bought this we had to learn that there is a second - supposedly chakra-consuming - Mangekyou-technique - Amaterasu - a fire technique hot/strong/"I don't really care what" enough to overcome even other fire techniques. The only way you can avoid this is by sealing it if you are a Sannin (Jiraiya), by using Shinra Tensei (Nagato), being the fastest Shinobi available (A) or whatever. But okay, Sasuke managed to come up with a strategy to counter it.

    As if it weren't enough, there is Susano'o, which can tank any - absolutely any - technique. No matter how fast or strong it is. And when you think it's over, and think that there are still ways so overcome this absolute - as usual extremely chakra-consuming - defense (as Gaara showed), there comes Madara with his extremely powerful - thus chakra-consuming - perfect susano'o.

    Meanwhile, the Byakugan-user looks rather petty with his ability to see chakra and every detail within a 100 yards. Susano'o is big enough, you won't need it.

    But then you think: OK, it could be worse. They are human, after all, so once you kill them, they die. NO, THEY DON'T!!! Because, well, yes, there is, exceptionally, this tiny little secret eye technique that helps you turn reality into an illusion. But hey, at least there is a catch: you lose your eye sight, so you just have to kill Tobi about 100 times until he runs out of Sharingans.

    And, of course, there is Izanami, this tiny little secret eye technique - as all Sharingan-techniques seem to be secret - that helps you counter Izanami. The only downfall here is, beside the fact that - again - you turn blind, you need a doctor in Sharingan-science and Uchiha-ancient-history to be able to understand how that techniques actually works.

    Hearing all this, the Byakugan-user starts crying and wonders how he could even learn to stand erect.

    And that's not all: It's not just that you can only fight a Mangeykou-Sharingan-user if you find a way to fight an absolute defense, the best Genjutsu, the strongest fire-technique, Izanagi and Izanami - techniques that are all, of course, so extremely chakra-consuming that they use them every ten minutes.

    There is also the fact that it is possible to evolve the d*** sharingan into the next level: Rinnegan! And that gives you access to all Rinnegan-techniques.

    In the meantime, the Byakugan-user seriously considers to work as a caretaker.

    I know that Kishi loves the Sharingan, but I am sick of it. I really do hope that we already know all techniques. Yet I know that we don't, because Itachi already revealed that once you have the EMS, there comes a - guess what - new, secret (and probably extremely chakra-consuming) technique nobody knows.

    I hate the Sharingan.

    P.S.: By the way, I forgot Kakashi's Kamui.

  2. #2
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Nobody is gonna ban you for this at Mangashare.

    Kishimoto probably changed many things along the way, and what we've got is what he decided to do. However, the Sharingan is balanced out by Hashirama's DNA, only that his (SENJU) blood has thinned out, was not protected by inbreeding, and as a result even his children did not possess his HAXED attributes.

    I have One question for you though. Since we are all beholden to Kishimoto, and no one has the power to change what he's done to the Sharingan, what then do you expect to gain from this thread?

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  3. #3
    Senior Member Lakritze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Nobody is gonna ban you for this at Mangashare.
    That's good to know. *g*

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    I have One question for you though. Since we are all beholden to Kishimoto, and no one has the power to change what he's done to the Sharingan, what then do you expect to gain from this thread?
    I expect to gain from this thread the same as I expect from reading Naruto: I just wanna have fun. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Back to the issue:
    When the Sharingan was able to evolve to the Rinnegan, that's where Kishi crossed the line. Until then, I thought that the Byakugan still might catch up. The Rinnegan and the Sharingan were uber-strong, but as long as there was a possibility that the Byakugan also had the potential to develop super-secret, extremely chakra-consuming, virtually unbeatable jutsus, I could still buy it. Three dojutsus, rare and great, with advantages and disadvanages. Yet Madara showed that there is a way to switch from one doujutsu do another one. The direction of the evolvement - Sharingan into Rinnegan - shows that there is some kind of hierarchy between the dojutsus. It is safe to assume that the Rinnegan won't develop into the Byakugan - although that is a funny thought.

    Where does this leave the Byakugan? Is it possible to evolve the Byakugan into the Sharingan? Theoretically maybe, but as we already know, the Byakugan is the best dojutsu when it comes to making chakra-flows visible. Thus, a development into the Sharingan would be a step back when it comes to chakra-vision. Yet, now that I think about it, the Rinnegan isn't entirely better than the Sharingan, neither, since the Rinnegan can't be used to copy ninjutsus or taijutsus. So as strange as it seems, my bet would be on the Byakugan evolving into the Sharingan.

    Kishi could reveal this mystery, but the Hyugas aren't important enough to find their back to the center of the storyline.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakritze View Post
    That's good to know. *g*



    I expect to gain from this thread the same as I expect from reading Naruto: I just wanna have fun. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Back to the issue:
    When the Sharingan was able to evolve to the Rinnegan, that's where Kishi crossed the line. Until then, I thought that the Byakugan still might catch up. The Rinnegan and the Sharingan were uber-strong, but as long as there was a possibility that the Byakugan also had the potential to develop super-secret, extremely chakra-consuming, virtually unbeatable jutsus, I could still buy it. Three dojutsus, rare and great, with advantages and disadvanages. Yet Madara showed that there is a way to switch from one doujutsu do another one. The direction of the evolvement - Sharingan into Rinnegan - shows that there is some kind of hierarchy between the dojutsus. It is safe to assume that the Rinnegan won't develop into the Byakugan - although that is a funny thought.

    Where does this leave the Byakugan? Is it possible to evolve the Byakugan into the Sharingan? Theoretically maybe, but as we already know, the Byakugan is the best dojutsu when it comes to making chakra-flows visible. Thus, a development into the Sharingan would be a step back when it comes to chakra-vision. Yet, now that I think about it, the Rinnegan isn't entirely better than the Sharingan, neither, since the Rinnegan can't be used to copy ninjutsus or taijutsus. So as strange as it seems, my bet would be on the Byakugan evolving into the Sharingan.

    Kishi could reveal this mystery, but the Hyugas aren't important enough to find their back to the center of the storyline.
    Well to be fair, it is still possible that they are all related. We have already seen that the bloodlines seriously degenerated overtime. The sharingan in its later forms are just some sort of progression back to the Rinnegan and/or whatever eye the Elder son possessed. If the sharingan is a devolved Rinnegan it could be that the Byakugan is similar but in a different way. We are seeing something similar with the Senju and Uzumaki. Both the Senju and the Uzumaki seem to show abilities that relate to the powers of the younger son. I can think of a couple possible reasons for this, the difference may simply be a case of the bloodline being divided or it could also be a case of the bloodline mutating. This would explain why the byakugan and the sharingan each have advantages over the other. The sharingan is not an obvious evolution of the byakugan they are different. The reason that the sharingan is better is mainly because it has been evolved to higher levels. Perhaps something similar could have been accomplished with the byakugan but it was not attempted or not discovered. It is also interesting to notice that the Sharingan must be awakened while the byakugan (at least in some form) seems to be evident from birth. To me this shows signs of the divided nature of the bloodlines. Again we see something similar with the Senju and the Uzumaki, the Uzumaki are born with an obvious strong life force and physical energy. The Senju, however, seem to have latent abilities that are powerful but less common, Hashirama has so far been the only one to master the Wood Release and other special bloodline abilities related to the Senju.

    We still don't know what the true Rinnegan really originated or how it truly devolved. The Sharingan apparently descended from the Elder son but we don't know if he had the Rinnegan itself or a modified version. I personally suspect that the Elder son did not have the true Rinnegan but rather a different eye similar to the EMS since it has already been claimed that Senju cells are needed to awaken the Rinnegan. That would not make sense if the Elder brother already had the Rinnegan. So that begs the question of where the Byakugan came from. I have a couple of theories. The simple one is that the Byakugan is a mutation of the sharingan, the result of the Elder brother's bloodline mixing with another bloodline and becoming diluted. It could also be the result of a union of the Elder brother's descendants and the younger brother's descendants, which would explain why in some ways it is superior to the sharingan and why it is prevalent in all Huuga from an early age. Since it has parts of both bloodlines it would explain why it has similarities to the Rinnegan but it is also much more toned down, it is closer to the Original Sage's eyes but weaker than the Elder Brother's because it is less pure. The other theory is that the byakugan is a mutation caused by natural energy. There have already been hints that many of the bloodlines (an perhaps even the Original Sage of Six Path's abilities) are physical mutations brought on by the use of natural energy. Kabuto basically confirmed this by pointing out that Juugo's abilities are a result of his body absorbing natural energy but not being able to consciously control it. As a result his body can take on many different forms for many different purposes. When this ability is transferred to others though, via the cursed seal, it is more consistent to the user. I think that is a hint of how most of the bloodlines developed.

    The Byakugan may be a new bloodline that is really just a precursor to a physical mutation the Sage of Six Path's created in himself consciously to develop the Rinnegan. I do not believe that the Sage of Six Path's was born with the Rinnegan or any of his other powers. I believe that the Sage of Six Path's was a wise man who discovered the ability to use natural energy, absorb it into his body and use it to physically transform himself to create powerful bloodlines. We have already seen that natural energy can mutate the body, even Naruto's eyes change when he uses Sage Mode. The eyes changing is said to be a sign of a pure Sage. I believe that this is a hint to where the Eye Techniques derived from. Kabuto has also shown that there are different types of Sage mode which indicates that their are different aspects of nature to master. I believe that the Original Sage mastered all of the aspects of natural energy and obtained enlightenment, thus granting him the Eyes of God, the true Rinnegan. This would also explain why a Rinnegan user can control all 5 elements of nature. I believe that the other bloodlines are a more focused version of Juugo's ability. Juugo's bloodline is mutations caused by uncontrolled use of natural energy, I believe that most of the bloodlines are mutations caused by a specific use of natural energy. Like a supernatural evolution, the need or will of the individual paired with natural energy, develops a transformation resulting in a specific power or form that becomes a genetic trait.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Lakritze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artifice View Post

    We still don't know what the true Rinnegan really originated or how it truly devolved. The Sharingan apparently descended from the Elder son but we don't know if he had the Rinnegan itself or a modified version. I personally suspect that the Elder son did not have the true Rinnegan but rather a different eye similar to the EMS since it has already been claimed that Senju cells are needed to awaken the Rinnegan. That would not make sense if the Elder brother already had the Rinnegan. So that begs the question of where the Byakugan came from. I have a couple of theories. The simple one is that the Byakugan is a mutation of the sharingan, the result of the Elder brother's bloodline mixing with another bloodline and becoming diluted. It could also be the result of a union of the Elder brother's descendants and the younger brother's descendants, which would explain why in some ways it is superior to the sharingan and why it is prevalent in all Huuga from an early age. Since it has parts of both bloodlines it would explain why it has similarities to the Rinnegan but it is also much more toned down, it is closer to the Original Sage's eyes but weaker than the Elder Brother's because it is less pure. The other theory is that the byakugan is a mutation caused by natural energy. There have already been hints that many of the bloodlines (an perhaps even the Original Sage of Six Path's abilities) are physical mutations brought on by the use of natural energy. Kabuto basically confirmed this by pointing out that Juugo's abilities are a result of his body absorbing natural energy but not being able to consciously control it. As a result his body can take on many different forms for many different purposes. When this ability is transferred to others though, via the cursed seal, it is more consistent to the user. I think that is a hint of how most of the bloodlines developed.

    The Byakugan may be a new bloodline that is really just a precursor to a physical mutation the Sage of Six Path's created in himself consciously to develop the Rinnegan. I do not believe that the Sage of Six Path's was born with the Rinnegan or any of his other powers. I believe that the Sage of Six Path's was a wise man who discovered the ability to use natural energy, absorb it into his body and use it to physically transform himself to create powerful bloodlines. We have already seen that natural energy can mutate the body, even Naruto's eyes change when he uses Sage Mode. The eyes changing is said to be a sign of a pure Sage. I believe that this is a hint to where the Eye Techniques derived from. Kabuto has also shown that there are different types of Sage mode which indicates that their are different aspects of nature to master. I believe that the Original Sage mastered all of the aspects of natural energy and obtained enlightenment, thus granting him the Eyes of God, the true Rinnegan. This would also explain why a Rinnegan user can control all 5 elements of nature. I believe that the other bloodlines are a more focused version of Juugo's ability. Juugo's bloodline is mutations caused by uncontrolled use of natural energy, I believe that most of the bloodlines are mutations caused by a specific use of natural energy. Like a supernatural evolution, the need or will of the individual paired with natural energy, develops a transformation resulting in a specific power or form that becomes a genetic trait.
    That is why I love you guys: Great assumptions. My money is on the theory that there is a (maybe historical and long forgotten) evolution: Sharingan evolved from the Byakugan, and Rinnegan from the Sharingan. A few aspects make that assumption least likely. For one, Kakashi stated that "they say the Uchiha Clan's origins lie within the Hyuga Clan" (http://www.mangareader.net/93-83-13/...hapter-78.html). Further, the Rinnegan's shared eye sight is much closer to the Byakugan than to the Sharingan. The only thing that is missing is a clear Byakugan upgrade, and I think Hinata and Neji are the ones to do it.

  6. #6
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Solidarity and understanding from me Jr gained. But it must be pointed out, not all Sharingan users reach the point of even second or third tomoe. Mangekyo level and beyond was extreme power few uchiha could reach. Its a shame we know so little about senju's I
    Inheritance of powers and techniques from the so6p bloodline. We know a bit about hashirama but so little about the powers of senju that put them as equal footed rivals against the uchiha for generations. We know more about Uzimaki :/

    We get much time spent with the rare and elitest of sharingan users that its easy to forget that it does not reflect the abilities and lackluster power of sharingan by typical uchiha ninja pre massacre.

    Don't also forget bloodline expansion. Power as rare and formidable as MS/EMS and here we see it posing a threat to the absolute strongest Sharingan. You don't lose a finger or kneecap executing dust techniques.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Afro Thunda's Avatar
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    I didn't read the thread, but judging by the title, I'm gonna assume you're stating the obvious. The same reasons any person, in the Narutoverse and in our real world, would hate the Sharingan. Well, unless you happen to be a Sharingan user yourself, that is hehe.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Greed-sama's Avatar
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    Does anyone else remember when they talked up the Byakugan and said that the Sharingan actually came from it?

    http://178.21.19.200/manga/mangas/Na...uto-9-6-13.jpg

    LOLZ
    My name is Corey and I am an asshole. I get excessively drunk at inappropriate times, disregard social norms, indulge in every whim, ignore the consequences of my actions, mock idiots and posers, sleep with random women, and just generally act like a raging dick head. I contribute to society in no way what so ever

    Proud fan of the Oujou White Knights!

  9. #9
    Senior Member Afro Thunda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greed-sama View Post
    Does anyone else remember when they talked up the Byakugan and said that the Sharingan actually came from it?

    http://178.21.19.200/manga/mangas/Na...uto-9-6-13.jpg

    LOLZ
    Key words there are "It was said". So it's only speculation in the Narutoverse that the Sharingan may have descended from the Byakugan. It is not the absolute, indisputable truth. And given what we've seen so far, it would seem that they have no connection to each other.

  10. #10
    Senior Member lazybum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greed-sama View Post
    Does anyone else remember when they talked up the Byakugan and said that the Sharingan actually came from it?

    http://178.21.19.200/manga/mangas/Na...uto-9-6-13.jpg

    LOLZ
    as afro menioned, "It was said"...
    also, tobi did mention that uchiha's were direct descendants of the older son of the SO6P. there was a panel showing a glimpse of the two son's, but i can't recall seeing the older son's eyes. does anyone else remember this ?

    @Lakritze, as explained by tobi during his history lesson to the kages, sharingan's origins lies with the SO6P, and the rennigan, and maybe from the Jyuubi (10 tails, its eyes seem to share the same eye design), its exponentially increasing abilities can be explained by kishi. but for its every upgrade, kishi has shown a counter to it.
    sasuke's fully activated sharingan vs naruto at VOTE,
    sasuke's MS activated vs bee,
    madara's EMS vs hashirama,
    nagato's rennigan vs naruto & konoha shinobi's, nagato vs naruto, bee, itachi...
    no matter how many upgrades come with a blood line, there will always be ways to counter them, kishi has implied this many times over the course of this manga. and a blood line is only a tool for a shinobi, as zetsu said during sasuke-itachi fight when sasuke overcame itachi's tsukiyomi, the use and battle prowess of that tool really depends of the shinobi's possessing that ability, so in that sense, a blood-line is almost like a jutsu (a blood-line only implies that the shinobi possessing them as some extra justus), the jutsu maybe all-powerful like the shinara tensei, but there are ways to counter them like itachi showed against nagato.
    the effectiveness really depends on the user, e.g. minato vs tobi, many including minato acknowledged that tobi time-space technique was more advanced than minato's own space-time technique, but in a direct confrontation between the two using their respective techniques, minato came up on top.
    so its not really an end-all thing to have a blood-line, even sharingan in specific, atleast not in the naruto-verse

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