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  1. #71
    you're too troublesome Shikamaru-sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueiris385 View Post
    we know that the Sharingan cannot copy ALL jutsu. It cant copy Kekkie Genkai. Also its been said it can't copy certian jutsu without handseals. I don't know how that makes sense though since sasuke copied Lees Taijutsu in chuunin exams.
    sasuke was copying his MOVEMENTS there. tiajutsu is punching and kicking... phsical combat. Im pretty sure you dont need to form handseals to throw a fist in naturo...

  2. #72
    Senior Member Afro Thunda's Avatar
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    Gotta agree with chrisss.... If the Sharingan couldn't copy some punches and some kicks, that would decrease its value to me lol.

  3. #73
    Preacher of Haruhiism draciel's Avatar
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    guys calm down.
    atriede: it has been said that jutsu's use a mix of spatial and elemental composition. The elemental defines it's affinity and overall effects (numbness of chidori, fire burns, water leave you wet, earth hurts like hell and explodes, wind cuts and leaves the girls skirt up, etc etc) and the spatial defines the scope, range and strength of the attack. In this point you have to reread Naruto's training with Kakashi more carefully. It is true that the Rasengan is a jutsu of pure spatial composition of the highest level. But cuz it only needs spatial composition control Kakashi said it was a class A jutsu that he could somehow copy and he says so when he shows Naruto that he can do rasengan too. Being that said no one has eve been able to put his element into Rasengan cuz the spatial recomposition is to great to enable people to do so.

    ironmaidenlive22: there are several jutsus that the sharingan can't copy not just kekkai genkai nor seal-less jutsus. Sasuke had to attain Lightning element to be able to do Chidori and the example you used said that Sasuke learned faster cuz he learned the Chidori in one month, along with gaining a lot of speed in comparison to Naruto learning Rasen-shuriken. This is what I understood of your post but that is a bad example of how Naruto learns slower than Sasuke cuz learning the rasen-shuriken in one week is a better achievement than Sasuke's one month train with Kakashi.

    Sharingan is like teevo: it predicts movement, is able to copy it in the same fashion as a video tape meaning that once you see it it is saved in your memory and, if you have the physical requirements for it (if you're strong enough, have enough chakra, have the same body, etc etc) you can repeat that same movement. Sharingan can also copy Taijutsu but it can't make you copy the opponent's speed. Kakashi made Sasuke train Lee's taijutsu in order for sasuke to develop that speed.


    I think Naruto didn't come from J-man training with a lot of new things cuz he is the main character. His development will be totally on screen time, where we can see how fast he does it and such. Think about it you never saw Sasuke's training, he just appeared a month later with Chidori and speed/taijutsu. Naruto learned the Rasengan in front of us. The only actual change in his abilities before time-skip is speed, timing with jutsus and other things that all-in-all seem meaningless. Sasuke once again came to the screen with a load of new things we never saw him training. His development is off-screen so it's free but Naruto's real development has to happen in screen time. I believe this is frustrating but we have to endure with it. Whenever we see Naruto learn something he learns it in time record I mean:

    KB - one night
    Kuchiose - about a month
    Rasengan - one week
    Elemental control and Shuriken-rasengan - about some weeks
    Sasuke:
    Katon Gokakyu no jutsu - one week
    Lee's speed and chidori - one month

    There isn't that much of a difference cuz before time skip they are still both evolving in rivalry terms - one has something, the other acquires better. However Sasuke learned endless jutsus off-screen when Naruto only learned Henge....Oiroke no jutsu....whom aren't much used anyways

    Oh and there are several battles where we see Naruto outsmart opponents and it isn't such a rare event(I will count the real important ones not random appearances of idiot nins):
    Zabuza first fight - Outsmarted Zabuza
    Zabuza second fight/Haku - He went Kyuubi not on his will
    Chuunin exam Oro - He went Kyuubi not on his will
    Preliminary rounds - Outsmarted Kiba two times
    Neji - Outsmarted him and when that didn't worked (due to Kaiten) he went Kyuubi willingly and still created a strategy to take down Neji. He outsmarted him
    Gaara - put a sennen goroshi in a sort of clever way, used his powers to TKBNJ plus GamaOyabin than used Kyuubi in the final to release from the sand.
    Sasuke VOTE - He mostly didn't did anything smart but he was also fighting a very good analytical opponent whom had the Sharingan on top of that so mostly Kyuubi although not exactly willingly.

    When I say not willingly I'm just saying if he hadn't the Kyuubi the fight would be very different, in fact against Oro it didn't matter and against Haku if he hadn't gone Kyuubi he might have died but he could have also found a flaw or create a strategy that would work. I'm just saying since he didn't voluntarily used that power he ended up not needing to create a strategy.

    On Shippuden likely due to the seal been weakened through Jiraya's intervention and own weakening of the seal, Naruto seems to be taken by Kyuubi a lot easier:
    Deidara - he trowed a few punches. he was kyuubi since before the battle
    Oro - went Kyuubi
    Kakuzo - he nearly hit the first time due to good use of KB and then outsmarted Kakuzo


    This shows that if Kyuubi doesn't intervene, Naruto always comes up with a strategy.

    And please read the manga since the fights differ greatly and in the anime they make Naruto look way dumber and slower.

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  4. #74
    Regular Member ruiner-kun's Avatar
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    very good examples,

  5. #75
    darkness pitch black atriede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draciel View Post
    guys calm down.
    atriede: it has been said that jutsu's use a mix of spatial and elemental composition. The elemental defines it's affinity and overall effects (numbness of chidori, fire burns, water leave you wet, earth hurts like hell and explodes, wind cuts and leaves the girls skirt up, etc etc) and the spatial defines the scope, range and strength of the attack. In this point you have to reread Naruto's training with Kakashi more carefully. It is true that the Rasengan is a jutsu of pure spatial composition of the highest level. But cuz it only needs spatial composition control Kakashi said it was a class A jutsu that he could somehow copy and he says so when he shows Naruto that he can do rasengan too. Being that said no one has eve been able to put his element into Rasengan cuz the spatial recomposition is to great to enable people to do so.

    ironmaidenlive22: there are several jutsus that the sharingan can't copy not just kekkai genkai nor seal-less jutsus. Sasuke had to attain Lightning element to be able to do Chidori and the example you used said that Sasuke learned faster cuz he learned the Chidori in one month, along with gaining a lot of speed in comparison to Naruto learning Rasen-shuriken. This is what I understood of your post but that is a bad example of how Naruto learns slower than Sasuke cuz learning the rasen-shuriken in one week is a better achievement than Sasuke's one month train with Kakashi.

    Sharingan is like teevo: it predicts movement, is able to copy it in the same fashion as a video tape meaning that once you see it it is saved in your memory and, if you have the physical requirements for it (if you're strong enough, have enough chakra, have the same body, etc etc) you can repeat that same movement. Sharingan can also copy Taijutsu but it can't make you copy the opponent's speed. Kakashi made Sasuke train Lee's taijutsu in order for sasuke to develop that speed.


    I think Naruto didn't come from J-man training with a lot of new things cuz he is the main character. His development will be totally on screen time, where we can see how fast he does it and such. Think about it you never saw Sasuke's training, he just appeared a month later with Chidori and speed/taijutsu. Naruto learned the Rasengan in front of us. The only actual change in his abilities before time-skip is speed, timing with jutsus and other things that all-in-all seem meaningless. Sasuke once again came to the screen with a load of new things we never saw him training. His development is off-screen so it's free but Naruto's real development has to happen in screen time. I believe this is frustrating but we have to endure with it. Whenever we see Naruto learn something he learns it in time record I mean:

    KB - one night
    Kuchiose - about a month
    Rasengan - one week
    Elemental control and Shuriken-rasengan - about some weeks
    Sasuke:
    Katon Gokakyu no jutsu - one week
    Lee's speed and chidori - one month

    There isn't that much of a difference cuz before time skip they are still both evolving in rivalry terms - one has something, the other acquires better. However Sasuke learned endless jutsus off-screen when Naruto only learned Henge....Oiroke no jutsu....whom aren't much used anyways

    Oh and there are several battles where we see Naruto outsmart opponents and it isn't such a rare event(I will count the real important ones not random appearances of idiot nins):
    Zabuza first fight - Outsmarted Zabuza
    Zabuza second fight/Haku - He went Kyuubi not on his will
    Chuunin exam Oro - He went Kyuubi not on his will
    Preliminary rounds - Outsmarted Kiba two times
    Neji - Outsmarted him and when that didn't worked (due to Kaiten) he went Kyuubi willingly and still created a strategy to take down Neji. He outsmarted him
    Gaara - put a sennen goroshi in a sort of clever way, used his powers to TKBNJ plus GamaOyabin than used Kyuubi in the final to release from the sand.
    Sasuke VOTE - He mostly didn't did anything smart but he was also fighting a very good analytical opponent whom had the Sharingan on top of that so mostly Kyuubi although not exactly willingly.

    When I say not willingly I'm just saying if he hadn't the Kyuubi the fight would be very different, in fact against Oro it didn't matter and against Haku if he hadn't gone Kyuubi he might have died but he could have also found a flaw or create a strategy that would work. I'm just saying since he didn't voluntarily used that power he ended up not needing to create a strategy.

    On Shippuden likely due to the seal been weakened through Jiraya's intervention and own weakening of the seal, Naruto seems to be taken by Kyuubi a lot easier:
    Deidara - he trowed a few punches. he was kyuubi since before the battle
    Oro - went Kyuubi
    Kakuzo - he nearly hit the first time due to good use of KB and then outsmarted Kakuzo


    This shows that if Kyuubi doesn't intervene, Naruto always comes up with a strategy.

    And please read the manga since the fights differ greatly and in the anime they make Naruto look way dumber and slower.
    ^ you are obviously person of sense. I agree with you more or less, and stand corrected.

    In your reference to the fact that the chidori uses spacial manipulation I agree with you and in fact never said anything to the contrarary.

    What I did say is that creating a form(or spacial Jutsu) sperately, and then creating an elemental jutsu seperately, before then merging them together, has never been done and that that is why the RasenSHuriken is distinctive and so special. Chidori uses both spacal manipulation and elemental manipulation but it is different from Rasenshurinken in that does not create a form jutsu (rasengn) seperately before merging it with an element. That is the very reason and the very foundation for the rasenshurinken being so powerfull, and so different from other Jutsu that use spacial and element manipulation, such as chidori. Kakashi explain this very clearly in the manga.


    If Kakashi ceated a whole new form jutsu seperately, before merging it with his lightning Chakra then show me an example because im pretty sure he does not fuse the rasengan or a similar form jutsu with lighting.Instead he generates lightning first, before manipulating the lightning to meet his requirement.

  6. #76
    Senior Member iron_maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draciel View Post
    ironmaidenlive22: there are several jutsus that the sharingan can't copy not just kekkai genkai nor seal-less jutsus. Sasuke had to attain Lightning element to be able to do Chidori and the example you used said that Sasuke learned faster cuz he learned the Chidori in one month, along with gaining a lot of speed in comparison to Naruto learning Rasen-shuriken. This is what I understood of your post but that is a bad example of how Naruto learns slower than Sasuke cuz learning the rasen-shuriken in one week is a better achievement than Sasuke's one month train with Kakashi.
    well i wasn't trying to state that sasuke learned things faster than naruto when i used the example you just brought up. when atriede stated that it took sasuke months learn chidori i stated that it was only a month and the training consisted of taijutsu training and then chidori. atriede also stated that kakashi, sasuke, and shodaime were unable to add elemental chakra to a spatial jutsu and i stated that that was incorrect. the fact that kakashi created chidori is proof that kakashi and sasuke had done it.


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  7. #77
    Ultimate Sharingan gohanex999's Avatar
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    Naruto will pull through one day... But its most likely not till near the end of the manga tbh... I really hoped that this manga would last forever but Kishi is planning on finishing the manga 2009 or 2010... Hopefully he will change his mind... Naruto keeps me sane :(
    Orochimaru reminds me of Michael Jackson... Hes pale and has long black hair LOL

    "Come here Sasuke, I'll show you the true power of the white snake" ROFLMAO

  8. #78
    darkness pitch black atriede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gohanex999 View Post
    . I really hoped that this manga would last forever but Kishi is planning on finishing the manga 2009 or 2010... Hopefully he will change his mind... Naruto keeps me sane :(
    Really! Did Kishi say this. Can you post me a link of which interview he said this in. Or at least explain it to me some more.

  9. #79
    Ultimate Sharingan gohanex999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atriede View Post
    Really! Did Kishi say this. Can you post me a link of which interview he said this in. Or at least explain it to me some more.
    It was confirmed in an interview with Kishi during a convention in japan. I can't remember where I saw this but it is true. He also stated that Naruto will not have his shine of glory during this year, he will focus more on other characters like Sasuke (his favourite, oh noes the creator of naruto is a sasuke fan boy why don't we cry.. xD). But yeah, should be interesting... I think there was something else I was supposed to say but i forgot...
    Orochimaru reminds me of Michael Jackson... Hes pale and has long black hair LOL

    "Come here Sasuke, I'll show you the true power of the white snake" ROFLMAO

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