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  1. #21
    Senior Member iron_maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wafflenet View Post
    I've been waiting for that since the Mist arc, it has yet to happen. That's not to say he hasn't received lots of power-ups, they're just all one-offs or amazing-come-out-of-nowhere-and-increase-his-power-ten-fold powerups. Where's the talent? =(
    hey dude you twisted my words. i never said anything about naruto getting help from the kyuubi but you did bring up an interesting point. true naruto's main victories are either via main character protection or kyuubi aided. chances are naruto's ultra uber super duper power boost is gonna be him learning to control the kyuubi which sucks ass. i hope the kyuubi gets extracted from naruto but naruto somehow doesn't die due to main character protection and with the kage bunshin training he learns some jutsus, quits being a retard, and finally starts kicking ass without the kyuubi's help. but i'm pretty sure non of that is gonna happen :(


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  2. #22
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    I have to disagree with you guys about the curse seal. It was a power that was given to Sasuke by Orochimaru. Its not his power to begin with, it came from someone else. Sure he can access it at any time, but its still not really his own power.

    As for the Sharingan Sasuke had to earn it. It may have been in his blood, but something important had to happen to him in order to activate it. And to take it further other important events had to happen for it to evolve to the 3rd dot. Not to mention other events in order to get the MS, which as far as we know he hasn't gotten yet. Each form of the Sharingan required hard work and growth as a person. Its not like its something he got automatically as he got older like with puberty.

    As for Naruto. Its said somewhere in the manga that the way the seal is set up so that the 9 tail's chakra will slowly come out and mix with his own chakra over time. So in a way the power really is his. Its only on curtain instances where a large amount of the fox's chakra comes through. There have been plenty of instances before the time skip where he was able to use the 9 tail's power without changing and was able to control it. Like during the fight with Haku. In the Forest of Death fighting agains Orochimarue and his snake. During his training with Juraiya. And the fight with Neji. All of those times Nartuto had complete control over the 9 tail's chakra. So you could say that the power is naruto's since he has to do something in order to get it.

    Its only latter that the tails start to apear and the 9 tails somehow exerts control over him. But like I've said in another topic I think that is just a sign of how far the seal has broken down over the years. I think that if it ever got to the point where Naruto had all 9 tails that the seal will completely break and the Fox could either take complete control of Naruto and devour his soul, or escape from naruto's body completely and retake its original form. Either way Naruto is screwed.

  3. #23
    The Hiphopopotamus Wafflenet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MangaMan View Post
    All of those times Nartuto had complete control over the 9 tail's chakra. So you could say that the power is naruto's since he has to do something in order to get it.
    How does that make it his power? Just because it's a controlled leak instead of a torrent doesn't make it any less of an external power source. The fact the he can occasionally control it (After he has become angry enough to release it in the first place -_-) doesn't make it any less external either, it just means it's the same as Sasuke's CS.

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  4. #24
    Senior Member Shock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MangaMan View Post
    I have to disagree with you guys about the curse seal. It was a power that was given to Sasuke by Orochimaru. Its not his power to begin with, it came from someone else. Sure he can access it at any time, but its still not really his own power.

    As for the Sharingan Sasuke had to earn it. It may have been in his blood, but something important had to happen to him in order to activate it. And to take it further other important events had to happen for it to evolve to the 3rd dot. Not to mention other events in order to get the MS, which as far as we know he hasn't gotten yet. Each form of the Sharingan required hard work and growth as a person. Its not like its something he got automatically as he got older like with puberty.
    He still had to survive the CS to make it his own, its not like when Orochimaru bite him that he automatically became CS2 Sasuke, there was a 90% or something like that probablility that he would die during the transformation from CS1 to CS2 unless he was strong enough to survive it, the sound 4 said he "would" die but I think they ment just the old Sasuke would die, as in his old pussy self, and then the new power overloaded Sasuke would be born.

    Naruto's Kyuubi chakra doesn't count as his own because he doesn't have control over it in the sense that it makes up its own decisions. I doubt 4th tail Naruto wanted to slap Sakura and poison her with his chakra on purpose, it was the Kyuubi that did that not him so technically Naruto wasn't even in the equation making it not his power.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member iron_maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MangaMan View Post
    I have to disagree with you guys about the curse seal. It was a power that was given to Sasuke by Orochimaru. Its not his power to begin with, it came from someone else. Sure he can access it at any time, but its still not really his own power.
    why isn't the cursed seal sasuke's power. if my memory serves me right the cursed seal forces the body to use more chakra and power than the body normally uses. these effects are very similar to opening the eight gates so does that mean that when gai and lee are opening the gates they aren't using their true power?


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  6. #26
    Lost in fathomed infinity Freakshow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironmaidenlive22 View Post
    why isn't the cursed seal sasuke's power. if my memory serves me right the cursed seal forces the body to use more chakra and power than the body normally uses. these effects are very similar to opening the eight gates so does that mean that when gai and lee are opening the gates they aren't using their true power?
    Gai and Lee did not got bitten by another living creature!!! They Developt it by them self. And sasuke CS was given by Orochimaru!!!Every one knows that!!

  7. #27
    Senior Member iron_maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freakshow View Post
    Gai and Lee did not got bitten by another living creature!!! They Developt it by them self. And sasuke CS was given by Orochimaru!!!Every one knows that!!
    yea but gai learned that move from someone so it was in some ways given to him just as sasuke was given the cursed seal. in the end of the day both cursed seal and opening the gates do the same thing so i don't think they can be called external power source since what they're doing is causing the body to go to it's limits.
    Last edited by iron_maiden; 01-17-2008 at 10:18 PM.


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  8. #28
    Senior Member Shock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freakshow View Post
    Gai and Lee did not got bitten by another living creature!!! They Developt it by them self. And sasuke CS was given by Orochimaru!!!Every one knows that!!
    I think your confusing the bite that Orochimaru gave Sasuke as liquid chakra that he injected into him instantly making him as strong as he is in level 2 CS, its not. All the CS does is allows Sasuke to take the limiters off his body and use energy that might not have been available to him before because doing so would push the body too far and might kill him, just like the 8 gates. Soooo it is all him its just he has something that lets him release all that chakra stored up in his body, kinda like a jutsu that lets you become faster or stronger but a permanent part of his body now.
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  9. #29
    Queen of the Boredom Zone Arhazivory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wafflenet View Post
    Sasuke is still strong without his Sharingan, Naruto isn't strong without Kyuubi.

    Think of it this way: You're playing MGS3, you wander around avoiding minions, finding items and what-not, then you get to The End. No matter how much you try you just can't beat him. You then give me the PS2 controller and I kill him. Did you win the fight? No. I did. Just because I used your PS2 to do it doesn't mean you should get the credit. The same applies to Kyuubi. Naruto's body is the PS2, Naruto's mind is the first player and Kyuubi is the talented player.

    Also, Sasuke was born with the Sharingan. If you think that's akin to Kyuubi then I guess Naruto shouldn't get credit if he wins a fight using his large chakra reserves. What about all of Neji's fights? he won them all using his kekkei genkai, does that mean he sucks?

    By the way, I consider the Curse Seal to be an external power source as it's not natural to Sasuke's body, unlike his Sharingan. Really, saying a kekkei genkai is an external power source is like saying the Thorpedo is a cheater because he has big feet.
    Nicely said, and I agree with you. I don't like when Naruto brings out any tails because it's not his power. Just like Yamato says, he should harness his own power and not rely on something so harmful. If the boy would sit and think things through he can become great. After all, he has some good techniques at his disposal.
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  10. #30
    FoxHound CrimsonFox's Avatar
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    I have a question for those that don't consider the Kyuubi to be naruto's power, and the cs to be sasuke's. If I am fighting someone and I use a skill that I was taught, a kick for example, am I using my own power? Also, if I am in the same fight, and I use a sword, am I using my power, or the swords power? If you say no, then that means no one in the world is actually using their own power ever. Everyone is using the power of the kick or the power of the sword to help them. If that is the case, when is anyone ever using their own power?

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