The sharingan & the Kyuubi

[solidsphere]

You're saying Jiraiya trying to unseal the elephant seal a little bit was supposed to be beneficial to Naruto?

I've always assumed Jiraiya was trying to train Naruto in some technique that uses the Kyubbi. I figured Naruto was successful at first so Jiraiya opened the seal a bit and now Naruto can't control the Kyuubi anymore because the chakra gushes out in too great a quantity for Naruto to handle at the moment.

[iron_maiden]

All I can think to say to that is lol. But then comes some more thinking and this is what i get.... You're saying Jiraiya trying to unseal the elephant seal a little bit was supposed to be beneficial to Naruto? I can't remember him saying that would help him, tho he may have go look it up for me , all I can remember him saying is that he was curious as to what would happen which is far from wanting to help him control it. >.> Oh and whats there to control about the CS 0.o I thought that barrel sealing thing the sound 4 did fixed all that where does one's will power come in to play there?

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but you're forgetting that when sasuke got the cs in the forest of death that wasn't the completely activated curse seal. he didn't get the completely activated cursed seal until after the sound 4 did their sealing jutsu on the big bucket with sasuke in it.

i reread your quote of my post and i didn't see anything about me talking about the sound 4 sealing sasuke in the bucket so i assume you are referring to my earlier post so i repasted what i said and bolded it. now i'll show you pics that support what i was saying.

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[Shock]

All I can think to say to that is lol. But then comes some more thinking and this is what i get.... You're saying Jiraiya trying to unseal the elephant seal a little bit was supposed to be beneficial to Naruto? I can't remember him saying that would help him, tho he may have go look it up for me , all I can remember him saying is that he was curious as to what would happen which is far from wanting to help him control it. >.> Oh and whats there to control about the CS 0.o I thought that barrel sealing thing the sound 4 did fixed all that where does one's will power come in to play there?

I'll field this before ironmaiden's heart explodes lol.

Re: Naruto and the 8 celestial seal

- I think I do remember the conversation that Jiraiya had about Naruto and his Kyuubi training and he does say that he wanted to see what would happen if the seal was twisted a little and the result was the 4 tails. But I do not think Jiraiya would have just opened it and then not taught Naruto how to control the chakra seeing as how the Kyuubi form was way too strong to be left to Naruto to learn how to control on his own.

Re: Sasuke and the CS

- The Curse Seal barrel technique was used to help Sasuke go from the Curse Seal level 1 to Curse Seal level 2, thats all, there was also a high probablility that he would die if he was not strong enough to handle it.
- The will power comes into play because Kakashi put a seal on Sasuke's Curse Seal back during the Chuunin exams because the Curse Seal was too strong for Sasuke to handle at that time and in order for Sasuke to control the Curse Seal better the seal uses his will power to "seal" the Curse Seal from coming out when he does not want it to.

**EDIT** Damn beat me to it....

[iron_maiden]

I'll field this before ironmaiden's heart explodes lol.

Re: Naruto and the 8 celestial seal

- I think I do remember the conversation that Jiraiya had about Naruto and his Kyuubi training and he does say that he wanted to see what would happen if the seal was twisted a little and the result was the 4 tails. But I do not think Jiraiya would have just opened it and then not taught Naruto how to control the chakra seeing as how the Kyuubi form was way too strong to be left to Naruto to learn how to control on his own.

Re: Sasuke and the CS

- The Curse Seal barrel technique was used to help Sasuke go from the Curse Seal level 1 to Curse Seal level 2, thats all, there was also a high probablility that he would die if he was not strong enough to handle it.
- The will power comes into play because Kakashi put a seal on Sasuke's Curse Seal back during the Chuunin exams because the Curse Seal was too strong for Sasuke to handle at that time and in order for Sasuke to control the Curse Seal better the seal uses his will power to "seal" the Curse Seal from coming out when he does not want it to.

**EDIT** Damn beat me to it....

thanks shock. i was gonna talk about kakashi's seal and even put up pics but i decided not to since i thought i had enough info proving my point. but what you just said supports my point even more thanks again. lol i beat you to the punch.

[4go101]

Lol that proves nothing, you seem to put a huge emphasis on pre and post sound 4 barrel jutsu, that pic was pre sound 4 so he had to control it, but afterwards he didn't have to do as much since Oro had control, more or less, of him... And the way it was stated at first just said Jiraiya tweeked the seal, just trying to get people to be more direct with their points, of course Naruto had help.

[Shock]

...but afterwards he didn't have to do as much since Oro had control, more or less, of him...

And you know this how???

At least we post proof of what the facts are while all you do is talk about how we aren't proving anything...

Your statement proves nothing if anything, you don't know that the seal Kakashi placed on Sasuke that helped him control the CS wasn't being used anymore.

[iron_maiden]

Lol that proves nothing, you seem to put a huge emphasis on pre and post sound 4 barrel jutsu, that pic was pre sound 4 so he had to control it, but afterwards he didn't have to do as much since Oro had control, more or less, of him... And the way it was stated at first just said Jiraiya tweeked the seal, just trying to get people to be more direct with their points, of course Naruto had help.

my pics prove nothing then please post pics that prove that sasuke couldn't control the cursed seal after the sound 4 intervention.

[AmarSa]

In the Forrest of Death,Orochimaru said about the cursed seal (I think to Sakura,or Anko?) "He will seek power from me."
So that means that the Cursed Seal isn't the power of Sasuke,it's Orochimarus.
Maybe "from me" means from Juugo? In any case I don't think that the CS is a "stored" power of Sasuke or anything like that.

Ok,Naruto has to learn to control the Kyuubi's chakra on his own,but what if not?
We don't know what Jiraiya was trying to teach him when they practiced,I think they were working on more things as just Oodama Rasengan and releasing a Genjutsu.

If I compare Naruto's and Sasuke's growth in those years,Naruto's still nothing..and both of them were trained under Sannin. Ok,Orochimaru helped Sasuke with the CS,that's common sense,but on the other hand what could Jiraiya do about Kyuubi? Nothing..and that's the point,Naruto has to master it really on his own..

[Traiken]

Let's make this simple alright.

The Cursed Seal acts in a simple way, originally Sasuke and other users of the Cursed Seal are unable to use all of their body's chakra simply because it's limited in order to prevent the overload from damaging the body or even killing the person. Cursed Seal acts as a delimiter, allowing the full body's chakra capacity to be used - which is exactly why we see Sasuke in pain after using the cursed seal level 2 which gives him access to his complete chakra supply. The problem with this is that the body cannot handle that much chakra and therefore it begins to damage the body. It's completely Sasuke's power, it just allows him to use his full chakra rather than limiting him to the normal amount of chakra his body can handle.

The Kyuubi on the other hand, simply lends out it's chakra. It's not Naruto's chakra in any way, Kyuubi has it's own complete seperate chakra that it can effectively "leak out" into Naruto's body and therefore making Naruto more powerful, although if too much of the Kyuubi's chakra is leaked out then Narutos chakra is no longer dominating, which allows Kyuubi to take over Naruto's body as shown many times before. This isn't Naruto's own power, it's Kyuubi's chakra that his being lent. At that point, it's basically Kyuubi vs the opponent.

An example is if you were fighting an opponent which we'll call X. You decide that you want help in order to defeat X and call for someone else to come and take over the fight on your behalf. Kyuubi literally just takes over the fight for Naruto and faces his opponent instead.

You can argue that Naruto's chakra is slowly merging with Kyuubi's chakra, which is also true. Naruto's chakra is increasing quite a bit due to this, however when Naruto does have an aura of Kyuubi's chakra than that's when you know Kyuubi is lending it out to him. When Naruto's using Kyuubi's chakra but not controlled by Kyuubi (like against Neji) then you can pretty much say it's Naruto & Kyuubi (limited on the amount of chakra he can input) vs the opponent.

An example of this is if you're fighting X and you need help, you ask for me to come into the fight however I'm limited on the amount of strength and force I can put into the fight (don't bother asking about reasons why, it defeats the whole point). Either way, see how the Cursed Seal is just allowing Sasuke to use his full body's chakra which he already has just like the gates used by Lee and Gai while Kyuubi is just giving Naruto a boost by helping him out? Two different entities.

[Shikamaru-sensei]

And you know this how???

At least we post proof of what the facts are while all you do is talk about how we aren't proving anything...

Your statement proves nothing if anything, you don't know that the seal Kakashi placed on Sasuke that helped him control the CS wasn't being used anymore.

wasn't that seal disspelled when the sound 5 took sasuke away and he was napping inside that barrel?