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  1. #31
    Senior Member iron_maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonFox View Post
    I have a question for those that don't consider the Kyuubi to be naruto's power, and the cs to be sasuke's. If I am fighting someone and I use a skill that I was taught, a kick for example, am I using my own power? Also, if I am in the same fight, and I use a sword, am I using my power, or the swords power? If you say no, then that means no one in the world is actually using their own power ever. Everyone is using the power of the kick or the power of the sword to help them. If that is the case, when is anyone ever using their own power?
    lemme ask you these questions. during the entire manga series have you seen naruto go into his subconscious and talked to the kyuubi? during the entire manga series have you seen sasuke go into his subconscious and talked to the cursed seal? i think that should tell you why the cursed seal is sasuke's power and the kyuubi isn't naruto's power.


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  2. #32
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    Here is the thing. All skill, ability, power, and control is in some sense of the word developed. Sasuke developed his control of the cursed seal power, and Naruto is in the process of developing his control of the kyuubi's power. the only difference is that Naruto does not have complete control yet. At some point, sasuke had little if no control and the cs would drain him of all strength and sanity. the same goes for the sharingan. now that sasuke has had time to develop his control over the cs, he is now able to fully use the ability as his own. give naruto some more time, and the 9 tails power will also be considered his own.

    it does not matter if he was born with it, learned it, or simply developed the control. Once he does have control, it is HIS power. Not anyone elses

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wafflenet View Post
    How does that make it his power? Just because it's a controlled leak instead of a torrent doesn't make it any less of an external power source. The fact the he can occasionally control it (After he has become angry enough to release it in the first place -_-) doesn't make it any less external either, it just means it's the same as Sasuke's CS.
    I think that the reason why the seal is set up to slowly mix the fox's chakra with Naruto's is to have them slowly merge into 1 being with hopefully Naruto being the dominent personality. That is how the fox's power is naruto's power. Because eventually they will be one and the same.

  4. #34
    Senior Member iron_maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonFox View Post
    Here is the thing. All skill, ability, power, and control is in some sense of the word developed. Sasuke developed his control of the cursed seal power, and Naruto is in the process of developing his control of the kyuubi's power. the only difference is that Naruto does not have complete control yet. At some point, sasuke had little if no control and the cs would drain him of all strength and sanity. the same goes for the sharingan. now that sasuke has had time to develop his control over the cs, he is now able to fully use the ability as his own. give naruto some more time, and the 9 tails power will also be considered his own.

    it does not matter if he was born with it, learned it, or simply developed the control. Once he does have control, it is HIS power. Not anyone elses
    what? when has sasuke being shown to be drained after using the sharingan without some kind of outside factor. sasuke's an uchiha for christ's sake there's no way using the sharingan will drain him of his strength and sanity. again please tell me when sasuke was drained of his sanity and strength after using the fully activated cursed seal.


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  5. #35
    FoxHound CrimsonFox's Avatar
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    One thing I was thinking about that has to do with one's own power, and this is a real world topic of debate. When you have an athlete that develops his or her ability through hard work and natural talent only, vs. an athlete that takes perfomance enhancing drugs to push past barriers, the one taking drugs is considered cheating. What if both athletes take performance enhancing drugs? Is one cheating more than the other? Nope. They are both cheating the same. If athlete A is using steroids, and athlete B is using human growth hormones, they are still using perfomance enhancing drugs.

    The same can be said of Naruto and Sasuke. Naruto is using the kyuubi, and sasuke is using the cursed seal. Sasuke is one up on Naruto because he also has the natural talent (uchiha blood). Either way you look at it, both are relying on an external energy source, that is no doubt. The only difference is that Sasuke was able to control his in a much shorter time (two years) compared to Naruto (his entire life).
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    im talking aobut when he first was given the cs, you know forest of death, chunnin exam. before he had control, similar to how naruto loses control. as for the sharingan, I meant to put some thing else in addition but did not complete the thought. sorry about that part.
    Last edited by CrimsonFox; 01-18-2008 at 06:20 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  6. #36
    Senior Member iron_maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonFox View Post
    One thing I was thinking about that has to do with one's own power, and this is a real world topic of debate. When you have an athlete that develops his or her ability through hard work and natural talent only, vs. an athlete that takes perfomance enhancing drugs to push past barriers, the one taking drugs is considered cheating. What if both athletes take performance enhancing drugs? Is one cheating more than the other? Nope. They are both cheating the same. If athlete A is using steroids, and athlete B is using human growth hormones, they are still using perfomance enhancing drugs.

    The same can be said of Naruto and Sasuke. Naruto is using the kyuubi, and sasuke is using the cursed seal. Sasuke is one up on Naruto because he also has the natural talent (uchiha blood). Either way you look at it, both are relying on an external energy source, that is no doubt. The only difference is that Sasuke was able to control his in a much shorter time (two years) compared to Naruto (his entire life).
    ------------------------------------------
    im talking aobut when he first was given the cs, you know forest of death, chunnin exam. before he had control, similar to how naruto loses control. as for the sharingan, I meant to put some thing else in addition but did not complete the thought. sorry about that part.
    but you're forgetting that when sasuke got the cs in the forest of death that wasn't the completely activated curse seal. he didn't get the completely activated cursed seal until after the sound 4 did their sealing jutsu on the big bucket with sasuke in it. the way i see it the kyuubi is a totally seperate entity from naruto. he's pretty much borrowing the kyuubi's chakra in order to do some stuff. but sasuke's cursed seal isn't a seperate entity. it's more like a key that unlocks his full potential. i think it's very similar to how opening the gates is that's why i don't think sasuke is cheating cuz at the end of the day he's using what his body produces while naruto is asking something that isn't created by his body for help.


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  7. #37
    FoxHound CrimsonFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironmaidenlive22 View Post
    lemme ask you these questions. during the entire manga series have you seen naruto go into his subconscious and talked to the kyuubi? during the entire manga series have you seen sasuke go into his subconscious and talked to the cursed seal? i think that should tell you why the cursed seal is sasuke's power and the kyuubi isn't naruto's power.


    really? you are saying that the cursed seal is a natural part of sasuke's body? I hope that is not what you are saying. I would quote it but i can save space by simply bringing it up. You said show you where sasuke has talked to the cursed seal. well, Juugo is the actual source of the cursed seal. Sasuke has spoken to him while recruiting him for Hebi, and while pursuing their goal. Also, the person that gave sasuke the cursed seal, orochimaru, has been seen speaking to sasuke on several occasions. I would say that Sasuke cheated way more than Naruto did in that he had help advancing his outside power source. No one is able to put naruto in a container an forcibly advance him to all 9 tails. Naruto has to develop that control on his own. sasuke had help, and the cs is from someone else.

    now to summerize: Naruto was given kyuubi from kyuubi and the 4th, Sasuke was given cursed seal from Juugo and orochi. Naruto has had to learn on his own how to deal with and control the kyuubi, Sasuke was assisted in controling the cursed seal, and was taught by orochi on its use. Naruto is developing his own ability the hard way, while Sasuke (the natural genius) is being assisted and tutored on the use of his new power.

    Everyone needs to stop giving Naruto such a hard time. He has to figure this stuff out on his own, and does not have any one to assisit him. Especially now that Jiraya is out of the picture.
    ------------------------------------------
    And dont forget, Naruto does in fact have high chakra. It has been stated that this is how he is able to keep the kyuubi chakra in check. Also, Naruto is not using the kyuubi chakra anymore.

    while learning the new rasengan, that was all Naruto. No kyuubi chakra there at all. He is willingly rejecting the kyuubi. when he does lose control, cpt. yamato is there to suppress the kyuubi. Naruto is trying to do this on his own.

    right before sasuke entered naruto's subconsious, naruto told kyuubi not to come out anymore. he did not need his power anymore.
    Last edited by CrimsonFox; 01-18-2008 at 08:06 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironmaidenlive22 View Post
    but you're forgetting that when sasuke got the cs in the forest of death that wasn't the completely activated curse seal. he didn't get the completely activated cursed seal until after the sound 4 did their sealing jutsu on the big bucket with sasuke in it. the way i see it the kyuubi is a totally seperate entity from naruto. he's pretty much borrowing the kyuubi's chakra in order to do some stuff. but sasuke's cursed seal isn't a seperate entity. it's more like a key that unlocks his full potential. i think it's very similar to how opening the gates is that's why i don't think sasuke is cheating cuz at the end of the day he's using what his body produces while naruto is asking something that isn't created by his body for help.
    I think the best description of the Curse Seal is that it kinda works like Tsunade's chakra seal on her forhead. It just stores chakra like a battery and then releases it at the users whim. But the Curse Seal takes things a step further by also causing physical changes like the black marks that spread across the body as well as making major changes when they go Level 2.

    But the side effects are more sever than Tsunade's Jutsu. Like after Sasuke uses it he's not only is very low on Chakra but also gets intence pain to the point where sometimes he can't even move. And it erodes the body making it weaker and weaker the more you use the Curse Seal. When Tsukade uses her jutsu she just gets low on Chakra, but can still move around and she's not in any pain, and it does shorten her life to some extent.

    Its never said that the Curse Seal works like opening the gates. If anything its more of a Chakra boost.

  9. #39
    Senior Member iron_maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonFox View Post
    really? you are saying that the cursed seal is a natural part of sasuke's body? I hope that is not what you are saying. I would quote it but i can save space by simply bringing it up. You said show you where sasuke has talked to the cursed seal. well, Juugo is the actual source of the cursed seal. Sasuke has spoken to him while recruiting him for Hebi, and while pursuing their goal. Also, the person that gave sasuke the cursed seal, orochimaru, has been seen speaking to sasuke on several occasions. I would say that Sasuke cheated way more than Naruto did in that he had help advancing his outside power source. No one is able to put naruto in a container an forcibly advance him to all 9 tails. Naruto has to develop that control on his own. sasuke had help, and the cs is from someone else.

    now to summerize: Naruto was given kyuubi from kyuubi and the 4th, Sasuke was given cursed seal from Juugo and orochi. Naruto has had to learn on his own how to deal with and control the kyuubi, Sasuke was assisted in controling the cursed seal, and was taught by orochi on its use. Naruto is developing his own ability the hard way, while Sasuke (the natural genius) is being assisted and tutored on the use of his new power.

    Everyone needs to stop giving Naruto such a hard time. He has to figure this stuff out on his own, and does not have any one to assisit him. Especially now that Jiraya is out of the picture.
    ------------------------------------------
    And dont forget, Naruto does in fact have high chakra. It has been stated that this is how he is able to keep the kyuubi chakra in check. Also, Naruto is not using the kyuubi chakra anymore.

    while learning the new rasengan, that was all Naruto. No kyuubi chakra there at all. He is willingly rejecting the kyuubi. when he does lose control, cpt. yamato is there to suppress the kyuubi. Naruto is trying to do this on his own.

    right before sasuke entered naruto's subconsious, naruto told kyuubi not to come out anymore. he did not need his power anymore.
    note i said has sasuke been shown to talk to the cursed seal in his subconscious. but you're absolutely right man now i realize the errors of my way. i was pretty sure naruto did get some outside forces in order for him to learn to control the kyuubi but i guess i was wrong. i always thought that jiraiya practicing with naruto was a way to teach naruto how to control the kyuubi, which would be an outside force but i guess i was wrong.

    oh and also i thought the fact that jiraiya tried to unseal the elephant seal a little bit with the toad scroll was also a cheat for naruto to learn to control the kyuubi but i guess i'm wrong as well. with those two things said naruto has really just mastered the kyuubi so far only by himself without any kind of outside help or cheat. the only thing naruto needs to figure out on his own is creating the final rasengan that's all. oh yea i was pretty sure you can't teach people will power but i guess according to your account oro thought sasuke how to control the cursed seal which is basically will based.

    Quote Originally Posted by MangaMan View Post
    I think the best description of the Curse Seal is that it kinda works like Tsunade's chakra seal on her forhead. It just stores chakra like a battery and then releases it at the users whim. But the Curse Seal takes things a step further by also causing physical changes like the black marks that spread across the body as well as making major changes when they go Level 2.

    But the side effects are more sever than Tsunade's Jutsu. Like after Sasuke uses it he's not only is very low on Chakra but also gets intence pain to the point where sometimes he can't even move. And it erodes the body making it weaker and weaker the more you use the Curse Seal. When Tsukade uses her jutsu she just gets low on Chakra, but can still move around and she's not in any pain, and it does shorten her life to some extent.

    Its never said that the Curse Seal works like opening the gates. If anything its more of a Chakra boost.
    no that's not how the cursed seal works. it doesn't store any chakra. it works like opening the 8 gates in the sense that it forces the body to work at 100% efficiency rather than like 20%. that's what it does.

    Spoiler!


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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironmaidenlive22 View Post
    oh and also i thought the fact that jiraiya tried to unseal the elephant seal a little bit with the toad scroll was also a cheat for naruto to learn to control the kyuubi but i guess i'm wrong as well. with those two things said naruto has really just mastered the kyuubi so far only by himself without any kind of outside help or cheat. the only thing naruto needs to figure out on his own is creating the final rasengan that's all. oh yea i was pretty sure you can't teach people will power but i guess according to your account oro thought sasuke how to control the cursed seal which is basically will based.
    All I can think to say to that is lol. But then comes some more thinking and this is what i get.... You're saying Jiraiya trying to unseal the elephant seal a little bit was supposed to be beneficial to Naruto? I can't remember him saying that would help him, tho he may have go look it up for me , all I can remember him saying is that he was curious as to what would happen which is far from wanting to help him control it. >.> Oh and whats there to control about the CS 0.o I thought that barrel sealing thing the sound 4 did fixed all that where does one's will power come in to play there?

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