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  1. #21
    六代目火影仙人 Rokudaime Sennin ™'s Avatar
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    First off, Hidan really is immortal, kakuzu said it himself he can't die, so Pain must've known this also which is why hidan was recruited. A person who gets his head decapitated, gets it sewn back on, and acts like nothing happened, i call them either immortal or undead. Here's my theory to his immortality, Jashin priests sacrificed thousands (like in FMA when they use humans to create PS) of bodies to the shinigami and in return, hidan was granted immortality for being very faithful. Or hidan must've been sealed inside the death god's belly and managed to escape achieving immortality. (he ruined death's grand design so death had to start over) Maybe the belly was full and had to spit some1 out to accept a better sacrifice, the 4th.

    After first soul transfer, Orochimaru's old body was prolly decomposing, so he must've told kabuto to burn it inside the furnace to heat up the hideout. Few things orochimaru could've done instead of risking his own life with sasuke. First, when his first soul transferred body was failing, he should've sent kakuzu a whole lotta money to tell oro his secret on prolonging a body's life, that way he won't have to switch every 3 years, and he also could've prolonged kimmimaru's life. Second, he should've made a deal with sasuke, that he'll train him in exchange for sasuke's blood every week. I mean the sharingan's power was in the blood, in due time, oro could've figured out how to create sharingan bodies like he did with yamato from shodai's dna. Also if other countries are always trying to unlock a kekkeigenkai's secret and special hunters are sent to destroy a dead shinobi with kekkeigenkai, (think hinata's kidnapping and what haku said), it means that it's quite possible to replicate a kekkeigenkai with experiments. Oro had all the time in the world, why risk fighting a sharingan when he clearly lost to one earlier. He said it himself, he knew that sasuke would turn against him. He was successful creating the cursed seal from juugo's blood, he could've done same to create bone kekkeigenkai and sharingan.
    Last edited by Rokudaime Sennin ™; 01-10-2008 at 10:00 AM.

  2. #22
    Valdr galga Óðinn's Avatar
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    Whoa, never thought of that, but that's true. Though probably the story wasn't supposed to go this way.

    Anyhow I think that when Yamato meets with Kabuto on the bridge (ch 290), Kabuto tells him Orochimaru is protecting his old bodies' cells. Correct me if I'm wrong but that should mean Oro is keeping is old bodies, in a way. With all his crazy experiments he could implant the cells like for Yamato or clone a new body? And to me it looks more likely that he gets back to his body this way than just transferring back to his original one.

    But it looks like the bodies themselves were destroyed. So it all goes back to what you said, probably. Unless you reckon Kabuto was lying?

  3. #23
    Senior Member Shock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godofwar View Post
    First off, Hidan really is immortal, kakuzu said it himself he can't die, so Pain must've known this also which is why hidan was recruited. A person who gets his head decapitated, gets it sewn back on, and acts like nothing happened, i call them either immortal or undead. Here's my theory to his immortality, Jashin priests sacrificed thousands (like in FMA when they use humans to create PS) of bodies to the shinigami and in return, hidan was granted immortality for being very faithful. Or hidan must've been sealed inside the death god's belly and managed to escape achieving immortality. (he ruined death's grand design so death had to start over) Maybe the belly was full and had to spit some1 out to accept a better sacrifice, the 4th.

    After first soul transfer, Orochimaru's old body was prolly decomposing, so he must've told kabuto to burn it inside the furnace to heat up the hideout. Few things orochimaru could've done instead of risking his own life with sasuke. First, when his first soul transferred body was failing, he should've sent kakuzu a whole lotta money to tell oro his secret on prolonging a body's life, that way he won't have to switch every 3 years, and he also could've prolonged kimmimaru's life. Second, he should've made a deal with sasuke, that he'll train him in exchange for sasuke's blood every week. I mean the sharingan's power was in the blood, in due time, oro could've figured out how to create sharingan bodies like he did with yamato from shodai's dna. Also if other countries are always trying to unlock a kekkeigenkai's secret and special hunters are sent to destroy a dead shinobi with kekkeigenkai, (think hinata's kidnapping and what haku said), it means that it's quite possible to replicate a kekkeigenkai with experiments. Oro had all the time in the world, why risk fighting a sharingan when he clearly lost to one earlier. He said it himself, he knew that sasuke would turn against him. He was successful creating the cursed seal from juugo's blood, he could've done same to create bone kekkeigenkai and sharingan.
    I like your thinking on these things, but as for Orochimaru I don't think he wanted to wait for his sharingan clones bodies to fully mature before taking them and using the sharingan to copy all the jutsu's in the world. Plus he would need a strong body to make sure he could withstand/get all the jutsu's and that would mean that he would have to now train all these clones. To me it sounds like this would be a huge project that would take a reeeeeally long time and Orochimaru probably didn't want/have that kind of time to spend.

    Im sure Orochimaru could unlock the secrets of the Sharingan with samples of blood from Sasuke but it'd probably take a long time. I still don't see how Orochimaru didn't think Sasuke would try and kill him once Sasuke learned he was stronger than him, which is why I think there's some greater plan out there for Orochimaru, like maybe he's just letting Sasuke think he's been taken over but secretly Orochimaru is learning all the jutsu's Sasuke's learned via the Sharingan since hes inside him anyways. Then when the moments right he'll pop out and take control of Sasuke for maybe 5 mins tops (probably as long as he can manage to take him over) and go back to his body and transfer out....

    Speaking of which, now that Sasuke has trapped Orochimaru's soul inside him does the 3-year-transfer thing still apply? Does he have to transfer out of Sasuke in 3 years or else something not good will happen?
    A pie in the sky?

  4. #24
    Preacher of Haruhiism draciel's Avatar
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    dude the three years thing is the time he needs before he can use the jutsu again. I'm not sure the body gets bad after three years(Oro's old body was due to the experiments I think and not the jutsu)

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  5. #25
    Senior Member Shock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draciel View Post
    dude the three years thing is the time he needs before he can use the jutsu again. I'm not sure the body gets bad after three years
    Then why change bodies after every 3 years for??? Wouldn't it be easier to just stick with a plenty young body as it is and use that for a while before changing?

    Quote Originally Posted by draciel View Post
    (Oro's old body was due to the experiments I think and not the jutsu)
    Im not quite sure what you mean here. If your talking about the white snake part of Orochimaru I talked about that a little earlier in my thread, I don't think this is his real body, I think its a representation of Orochimaru's soul and what happens to the body of his host when he takes it over (kinda like he takes over a body and then forms himself as a snake in the body as a side effect or as a part of the jutsu or w/e), because if that was his original old body then its not much of an immortality jutsu when your just jumping from one body to another with your original body (just using the new body as a shell for your old material body) cause you would still age like a normal person.
    A pie in the sky?

  6. #26
    Preacher of Haruhiism draciel's Avatar
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    what no only the soul gets top the new body and he changes bodies to get more powerful or younger ones. the first was the experiment(younger I would bet) and the second was a very young one then he wanted Sasuke for Sharingan. The three years limit was told to us by J-man and being true that after three years he can change body, he was at least in the body for three years when he met Sasuke and if the bodies start going bad after 3 years he would have changed before trying to take sandaime or he risked getting his weakness explored. Oro must was planning on letting Sasuke grow before taking the body so he still had more time available.

    See the chapters were Sasuke kills Oro and you'll see that it's clearly stated that Oro was experimenting on his own body and that is, I think, the reason the body was going bad.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by draciel View Post
    (Oro's old body was due to the experiments I think and not the jutsu)
    Im not quite sure what you mean here. If your talking about the white snake part of Orochimaru I talked about that a little earlier in my thread, I don't think this is his real body, I think its a representation of Orochimaru's soul and what happens to the body of his host when he takes it over (kinda like he takes over a body and then forms himself as a snake in the body as a side effect or as a part of the jutsu or w/e), because if that was his original old body then its not much of an immortality jutsu when your just jumping from one body to another with your original body (just using the new body as a shell for your old material body) cause you would still age like a normal person.
    I was stating the body he was in when Sasuke killed him

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  7. #27
    Senior Member Shock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draciel View Post
    See the chapters were Sasuke kills Oro and you'll see that it's clearly stated that Oro was experimenting on his own body and that is, I think, the reason the body was going bad.
    I remember that page, and to be honest that was the only page that held me up on my conclusion about Orochimaru's body. I was thinking that the White snake was his real, original body that he just kept doing experiments on himself and as a result he ended up looking like that, but then that makes a immortality jutsu completely useless since he is still in his old body when he transfers (and it wouldn't even be a transfer too, it would just be him living in another body for 3 years like a ring worm or something).

    But if you mean he transfers his actual soul into another body then takes that new body he has taken over and experiments on himself/new body some more then that might make sense, I just thought he might experiment on other people first/only since he's so fond of that.

    Which made me think of the only other possible explaination, that the white snake is what happens when he takes over a body, the body slowly starts rejecting him and the rejected Orochimaru comes out in the form of a white snake, or something like that.

    I dunno, his whole immortality jutsu is confusing and vague.

    The only end to his never ending search for new bodies to survive in is to find a body that will NOT reject him...I can only think of one body that he can call home for the rest of his life
    A pie in the sky?

  8. #28
    Preacher of Haruhiism draciel's Avatar
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    I think Sasuke means that he transformed the body in which he was in that white snake and cuz of those experiments he gets the body to start rejecting the Snake ADN or something like that I think. this means that the 'bodies' that are shown are just fakes since in the Naruto fight he never rally appears as the snake.

    ...it's confusing....

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  9. #29
    Senior Member iron_maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godofwar View Post
    First off, Hidan really is immortal, kakuzu said it himself he can't die, so Pain must've known this also which is why hidan was recruited. A person who gets his head decapitated, gets it sewn back on, and acts like nothing happened, i call them either immortal or undead. Here's my theory to his immortality, Jashin priests sacrificed thousands (like in FMA when they use humans to create PS) of bodies to the shinigami and in return, hidan was granted immortality for being very faithful. Or hidan must've been sealed inside the death god's belly and managed to escape achieving immortality. (he ruined death's grand design so death had to start over) Maybe the belly was full and had to spit some1 out to accept a better sacrifice, the 4th.

    After first soul transfer, Orochimaru's old body was prolly decomposing, so he must've told kabuto to burn it inside the furnace to heat up the hideout. Few things orochimaru could've done instead of risking his own life with sasuke. First, when his first soul transferred body was failing, he should've sent kakuzu a whole lotta money to tell oro his secret on prolonging a body's life, that way he won't have to switch every 3 years, and he also could've prolonged kimmimaru's life. Second, he should've made a deal with sasuke, that he'll train him in exchange for sasuke's blood every week. I mean the sharingan's power was in the blood, in due time, oro could've figured out how to create sharingan bodies like he did with yamato from shodai's dna. Also if other countries are always trying to unlock a kekkeigenkai's secret and special hunters are sent to destroy a dead shinobi with kekkeigenkai, (think hinata's kidnapping and what haku said), it means that it's quite possible to replicate a kekkeigenkai with experiments. Oro had all the time in the world, why risk fighting a sharingan when he clearly lost to one earlier. He said it himself, he knew that sasuke would turn against him. He was successful creating the cursed seal from juugo's blood, he could've done same to create bone kekkeigenkai and sharingan.
    the thing that makes me doubt that hidan was immortal is what kakuzu said during kakuzu's fight with the leaf ninjas. he said that there's no such thing as immortality and the only thing people are capable of doing is just prolonging their lives. if oro's body was becoming defected i don't think he could have stopped that by using the same method that kakuzu used to prolong his life. also kimmimaru was gonna die anyways so again kakuzu's method wasn't gonna do much good for him.

    true orochimaru could have tried to used sasuke's dna to replicate the sharingan but that would take too much time and as we know from oro's first try with shodaime's dna the chances of success would probably be low.

    I think Sasuke means that he transformed the body in which he was in that white snake and cuz of those experiments he gets the body to start rejecting the Snake ADN or something like that I think. this means that the 'bodies' that are shown are just fakes since in the Naruto fight he never rally appears as the snake.

    ...it's confusing....
    i'm not sure if i fully understand your post but i think you might be wrong and here's why. i believe the white snake is just a mode of orochimaru to transfer his soul. after 3 years his host starts to reject orochimaru's soul and then he has to do the transfer. i don't think the white snake is a recent mode for orochimaru since we've seen the white snake one other time in the manga. so i don't think it's the experiments that are making orochimaru have to change bodies but just that he has to change bodies.

    Spoiler!

    Spoiler!


    those are the two instances we've seen the white snake which leads me to believe that sasuke was wrong and assumed that the white snake was a recent development of orochimaru in order to move from body to body. but rather oro had already developed the white snake before he tried to get sasuke.
    Last edited by iron_maiden; 01-10-2008 at 11:07 PM.


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  10. #30
    Preacher of Haruhiism draciel's Avatar
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    if the first is from just before he changes to the body he has when Sasuke is training with Oro than it's not white Snake but Killing intent I think.

    The page you showed says pretty much what I was talking about:

    Orochimaru wanted Sasuke's body so he started experimenting the current, unimportant body which led to that form and that's why he can't continue on that body. I think that the white snake is Oro's soul and not that huge body. That's my opinion and the way I interpretate the manga

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