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  1. #121
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Hmmmmm, two complete Susanoos, looks like the first one was Madara's and the other, with raw physical power, comes from Hashirama. Yes, you heard it right, Edodara's Susannoo from the beginning was two faced (probably thanks to H-face boost) and thus, his complete form has two faces/forms as well. I guess one is a defensive mode, while the other is an attack mode. Not to mention that both forms are called complete/perfect (written on the side by the author ;P).

    Still, I'm not so sure about the legs and there is one more thing I'm wondering about. For what reason was the CS-no performing hand seals ? Was it needed to stabilize the chakra and transform it into attack mode, or did he do something else ?

    Oh right, I have one more strange question. How come a vertical slash have sliced a mountain horizontally ? Kishi is getting sloppy or what ?



  2. #122
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Personally, I think the Mountain-Slashing power of this new Susano'o is where Kishi has truly crossed the line in terms of raw power. It may have been crossed when Naruto deflected Bijuudama with his bare hands (and I had thought it was crossed back when the Third Raikage tanked a Rasenshuriken), but now the line has officially been ignored completely. Soon we'll see Naruto flying into the air, catching meteors, and flinging them back into space. And it won't be using a jutsu like the Tsuchikage, either.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rlinfamous View Post
    Madara wanted to be revived, but not as an Edo... I bet that when he notices himself fading, he'll say something like, "Looks like you guys lucked out for now, we'll finish this later."
    Yes, upon being resurrected Madara seemed to assume that it was Nagato who was responsible for his resurrection and he later asked Kabuto if he knows their (I assume he and Tobi's plan). Madara and Tobi apparently planned these events from the start, Kabuto resurrecting him at this stage was unexpected but it seems like he always intended to return.

    http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...0/page003.html

    Madara says that things don't seem to be going according to plan very well and then implies that Tobi must have something in mind but he can't seem to figure out what. Kabuto then tells Madara that he has been completed beyond what he was in his prime and Madara seems surprised that Kabuto would know about that. This seems to imply that part of the plan was always to infuse Hashirama's power into Madara (thus completed beyond what he was) and that Madara had achieved a higher level of power than anyone knew about (probably referring to awakening the Rinnegan).

    Based on Madara's attempt to summon the Nine-tails it seems likely that he never expected to be resurrected until after all the Bijuu were captured. The big question is why? Was Tobi prevented from resurrecting Madara or was it always part of the plan to wait. Also, the question of Madara's death is very suspicious, if he planned his resurrection with Tobi then he must have also been at least aware that there was something that would cause his death. Considering his power it seems unlikely that he would be at risk of being killed and since his battle with Hashirama didn't kill him it must have been something he did. It has been made quite clear that Hashirama was the only one capable of killing Madara so how did he die? I think that his death quite likely had something to do with attempting to complete the Rinnegan and use the Heretical Demon Statue. We have already seen that the Heretical Demon Statue is extremely dangerous to its user and even Nagato, a supposed pure blooded Uzumaki with the Rinnegan almost died attempting to use it briefly. Tobi has since said that he intends to sync Sasuke with it, yet we still don't know why that is necessary, Tobi himself seems to have almost complete control of the Statue so the Statue must have some other power that requires a very special type of person to sync with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rlinfamous View Post
    And Tobi's Jinchuuriki were all revived by Kabuto, and this was shown at the start of the war... some time during the war Tobi took them and made them into his new Paths, but they were already Edo Jinchuuriki. It makes sense that they'd fade when Kabuto's Edo Tensei was defeated.
    I was curious as to whether those were the bodies of the Jinchuuriki Kabuto Resurrected or corpses that Tobi had taken when he had extracted the Bijuu. I guess this confirms that they were indeed the ones resurrected by Kabuto. I am still very curious about all the corpses that Zetsu has been consuming all this time. Hording and manipulating corpses seems to be a theme of the villains in this series, I have to assume there is a good reason for Zetsu to consume the bodies and they somehow factor into Tobi's plan. With the Edo Tensei ended Tobi has lost the majority of his fighting force and the allies are still in pretty decent shape. Tobi always intended to fight this war without Kabuto's help though so I think it is safe to assume that he still has a lot more to fight with.

  4. #124
    Appearance of Darkness Aga bomBa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rlinfamous View Post
    Madara wanted to be revived, but not as an Edo... I bet that when he notices himself fading, he'll say something like, "Looks like you guys lucked out for now, we'll finish this later."

    And Tobi's Jinchuuriki were all revived by Kabuto, and this was shown at the start of the war... some time during the war Tobi took them and made them into his new Paths, but they were already Edo Jinchuuriki. It makes sense that they'd fade when Kabuto's Edo Tensei was defeated.
    Of course!! Thank you RLIN.. I was going chapters backward like hell, haha. It was at the beginning of the war.. Edo Madara Uchiha's fight with the Kage's simple made me forget what has happened before

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Hmmmmm, two complete Susanoos, looks like the first one was Madara's and the other, with raw physical power, comes from Hashirama. Yes, you heard it right, Edodara's Susannoo from the beginning was two faced (probably thanks to H-face boost) and thus, his complete form has two faces/forms as well. I guess one is a defensive mode, while the other is an attack mode. Not to mention that both forms are called complete/perfect (written on the side by the author ;P).

    Still, I'm not so sure about the legs and there is one more thing I'm wondering about. For what reason was the CS-no performing hand seals ? Was it needed to stabilize the chakra and transform it into attack mode, or did he do something else ?

    Oh right, I have one more strange question. How come a vertical slash have sliced a mountain horizontally ? Kishi is getting sloppy or what ?
    first of all; In the beginning, I also thought that Hashirama gave him the boost for having two-faced Susanoo + the legs. but read my thoughts that I had written in my previous post:

    3. PERFECT SUSANOO of Edo Madara Uchiha is probably NOT because of Hashirama's cells... like I first thought. Back in the days, Madara extracted Hashirama's cells and made it look like he was dead at VOTE. After that; he never fought Hashirama. BUT against those 5 kages, he said it like he had this form in the beginning..

    I think that most of us, still underestimate his STRENGHT OF CHAKRA. It was said that he was born with the strongest chakra that the Uchiha clan ever had.. this could mean, that Edo Madara's Perfect Susanoo.. is simple his doing with his own spiritual powers, and not related to Hashirama!
    Besides; Sasuke didn't go ALL OUT against white zetzu, and let be honest; why would kishimoto make Sasuke CAST THE PERFECT SUSANOO after gaining EMS, against white zetzu? Something like that, has to be done at the end of the manga: against Naruto.
    - What if this two faced Susanoo appears, after the transplant of your brother's eyes?? From MS --> EMS

    Itachi Uchiha showed us his Susanoo in MS mode,.. right after that; we saw Sasuke's Susanoo also in MS. Later on; when he escaped Tobi's hide-out and burned those white zetsu's, just like I said in my post above: Sasuke simple didn't brought up THE BIG GUN: his version of " PERFECT SUSANOO ".
    Why would he do such a thing and waste chakra for those white zetzu's? And why would Kishi make us witness such a epic thing so quickly in the beginning?? Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo must be shown against Naruto.

    It's true that Edo Madara is riding his own ego infront of those 5 kages, when he said that Hashirama was the only one who could beat his Perfect Susanoo.. but what if Hashirama's really done that? Madara said that Perfect Susanoo is comparable with the destructive powers of a Bijuu?
    On top of that; two faced Susanoo after gaining the EMS ( which needs a brother's sacrifice pair of eyes ), could be a great symbolic way. The face on the back, could be a Izuna's Susanoo and the front, is Madara's version.
    Madara / Izuna and Itachi / Sasuke are the closest ones to Elder Brother's lineage if it comes to spiritual powers/strenght of chakra and Sasuke will be the strongest Sharingan user @ the end of the manga. We saw that Itachi is going to poke him for the last time, so who knows which powers he will give him.

    ** About that mountain, this is how I saw it: that huge sword gave a huge pressure at the end and sliced the tops of the mountain horizontal.. because the top of the mountains are the weakest parts.
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  5. #125
    Senior Member Maximo's Avatar
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    Too bad Kishi is taking a break next week, leaving us with so much suspense for what is yet to come .. I bet Madara wont be dealt with so easily as simply releasing Edo Tensei. He might just pull something out of his ass to save himeslf. I was a bit surprised to see Naruto still up and fighting, he looked like seconds away from fainting when I last saw him some chapters earlier.

    Anyway, this new and persumably final form of Susanoo is most likely only accesable with Rinnegan and uchiha DNA so unless Sasuke manages to grow Rinnegan out of nothing then its quite immposible for him to have this final form of Susano. But yes I do agree that it would be pretty cool to see a fight between this huge Susanoo and a bijuu like Kurama. Another thing, Madara sure does exaggerate about Hashirama, there is no way he fought this Susanoo in theyre time bcs back then Madara didnt have Rinnegan and so he could only have the small final version of Susanoo.

    Madara at his full strenght now could possibly be twice as strong as the Madara that fought with Hashirama, at least in my opinion. Kages should realize this and actually get proud of themselves to hold theyre own up until now.

    I really hope Itachi isnt going to poke Sasuke again .. that would not be cool as it was the last time. Maybe Sasuke pokes Itachi instead ? Why not go with a hug for a change ..
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  6. #126
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Madara seems to be saying that he always possessed this amount of power and that only Hashirama could have matched him. Makes you wonder, with this kind of power, why does Madara even need the Bijuus? Madara, if he were revived, could cream every and any ninja out there. Also, the Moon's Eye Plan does not seem to fit a man who loves battle and domination like Madara. The guy would be bored after 6 Seconds of Moon's Eye Peace.

    The Only reason, I suspect, that Madara wants to combine the bijuus and become their Jinchuuriki, is just to remove the possibility of someone else doing so and becoming a threat to him.

    If Madara and Hashirama were both The Next Best Thing when compared with the Older and Younger sons of the SO6P, then Just Imagine how beastly those Two would have been. Moreover, Imagine how unimaginable the SO6P was.

    Finally, Having seen the Final Susanoo, it makes you wonder whether Naruto + Kurama will be enough. I think that my old speculation that the other Bijuus implanted miniature versions of themselves into Naruto is probably true (not just their Chakra). Naruto is going to become the 10 Tail Jinchuuriki himself, and only by this power will he stand a chance. Also, I wonder if Naruto will not need to awaken the Mokuton. Will he get it from Captain Yamato? Obviously he currently doesn't have what it takes to beat Madara. I am going to guess that Naruto will probably destroy the Geddou Mazzou at some near future point.

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  7. #127
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    We're all excited to see what Naruto might have gotten from the Bijuu. However, if he truly needs more firepower to deal with his current opponents (Ultimate Susano'o, Gedo Mazou, possibly Juubi), there's still the chance that Kyuubi/Sage Mode will happen! I'd love to see Naruto upgrade literally become a Sage Mode Kyuubi. Or maybe in that mode, he could create several Kagebunshins, and each of them would go full Bijuu Mode. There's really no limit with Naruto's raw power at the moment.

    And I'm of the belief that any EMS user can create a Susano'o on Madara's level, and Madara had that power in his fight against Hashirama (but no Rinnegan). I think Madara gained the Rinnegan after he gained Hashirama's power, and his death was related to the Rinnegan somehow (Gedo statue?). I think Madara's Complete Susano'o should give us some sense of his "maximum power" prior to becoming basically a Rikudou. Edo Madara gained a greater share of Hashirama's powers thanks to Kabuto implanting that face.

  8. #128
    Appearance of Darkness Aga bomBa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post

    Finally, Having seen the Final Susanoo, it makes you wonder whether Naruto + Kurama will be enough. I think that my old speculation that the other Bijuus implanted miniature versions of themselves into Naruto is probably true (not just their Chakra). Naruto is going to become the 10 Tail Jinchuuriki himself, and only by this power will he stand a chance.
    Seriously PAUL? Become the 10 tails jinchirikuu? Naah bro, I would love to see him be with Kyuubi alone, and not Juubi. They both got a long history with lots of pain / sorrow and ironic scenarios between Naruto / Sasuke. Kyuubi played a big role for Naruto, as well for Sasuke..
    I hope you haven't forgot that Naruto is going to mix Sage with Kyuubi Mode later on ( those eyes he had against Nagato ). That combination WILL HAPPEN, 100% sure! Having that new power boost + Kurama is soooooooooo powerfull, that would be enough against Susanoo.

    - BUT, we all know that Tobi is going to revive Juubi.. for several reasons. Tobi's portion of RAW BIJUU CHAKRA is more then what Naruto has. Tobi extracted all the chakra juice from the first 7 bijuu's.. I still believe that Killer Bee will be captured and he has kyuubi chakra from GIN/KIN brothers. That all together, will be enough for a Juubi for lets say; 85% of the original ten tails.

    Naruto, got all the spiritual energy from bijuu's.. those powers will somehow boost his current power to another level, for example; his bijuudama. If Kurama bijuudama was equal with those other bijuu's, then imagine what Juubi's bijuudama would be? I also don't see why he would use Mokuton.. and too be honest: I wouldn't even like it if he would. Mokuton should be Hashirama's style and Yamato, not Naruto's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rlinfamous View Post
    And I'm of the belief that any EMS user can create a Susano'o on Madara's level, and Madara had that power in his fight against Hashirama (but no Rinnegan). I think Madara gained the Rinnegan after he gained Hashirama's power, and his death was related to the Rinnegan somehow (Gedo statue?). I think Madara's Complete Susano'o should give us some sense of his "maximum power" prior to becoming basically a Rikudou. Edo Madara gained a greater share of Hashirama's powers thanks to Kabuto implanting that face.
    Agreed..

    1. Madara got EMS, had PERFECT SUSANOO..
    2. Madara extracted Hashirama's DNA @ VOTE
    3. Madara mixed that up into his body, and evolved his EMS to Rinnegan
    4. Madara, became because of this.. a manipulated version of Rikudou, so he began to lose chakra drasticaly
    5. Madara then, used the Rinnegan version of IZANAGI and created Tobi.. that's why he sees himself as " no one ", and got all the knownledge + skills from the original Madara
    6. Madara waited for Tobi to evolve and expand Hashirama's DNA. Meanwhile; Tobi has done this, but he could be having his own plan now
    7. Will Edo Madara come back, or will it switch to Tobi? This still makes me wonder, why Tobi was so afraid of Itachi: which secret was it, that Itachi couldn't know?
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  9. #129
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rlinfamous View Post
    We're all excited to see what Naruto might have gotten from the Bijuu. ........ETC
    I don't think any Susanoo user can acheive the Ultimate form, just as Not any Uzumaki or Senju could have acheived Hashirama's power. I think the two (Madara and Hashirama) were the most powerful offspring of the Elder and Younger sons respectively, the pinnacle of their respective lineages, hence they were able to reach such Ultimates.

    If it happens that Sasuke can Reach the same level of power as Madara, it would be odd that there is no comparable Senju/Uzumaki....And NO, Naruto's Younger Son Lineage is not sufficient, since he requires Kurama as a prop/boost, Kurama is not Naruto's own power. Hashirama was a beast without Bijuus, and so also is Madara.

    I too am waiting to see what Sage-Kurama will do, but I think/suspect that Kishi has been down pedaling Sage Mode, Sage Mode will be interesting, BUT...I wonder what Kishi is really up to.


    @Agabomba,

    Naruto becoming the 10 Tail Jinchuuriki is not too Far Fetched a prediction in the Light of The Dieing SO6P's prophesy to the Baby Bijuus regarding Naruto.

    One day They will all become one......
    All become one.jpg

    With Different names/Forms
    Different Names forms.jpg
    Last edited by paulbee; 06-08-2012 at 01:13 AM.

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  10. #130
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    It still doesn't make sense, since if it was a normal horizontal pressure it would blow the tip of the mountain (or make a big hole, or cut it straight) and not slice it horizontally clean, leaving the top to fall on the lower part. This is not a Destructo Disc where the blades changes it's shape to the fit the size it has to cut (funny enough, it's one of the most technical techniques in DBZ ), that is, if the target is bigger than the original size of the disc, like a mountain.

    Hmmmm, I noticed that Madara was only able to bring the whole body of Susanoo after activating the Rinnegan, but even with EMS, it still had 2 faces, so perhaps it really came from Izuna's version...

    ...wait, Susanoo comes from one eye that summons it's body and the other that forms it's specialized weapon, which means if Madara had a different specialization than Izuna, he wouldn't be able to pull out his weapons, but only his form... perhaps the first perfect-defense version comes from Izuna (It's more birdlike and it still has a crystal on top), while the second one is Madara's, since the first one had those base weapons of skeleton mode.

    The thing with Sasuke's Susanoo, is that his EMS version, already has a different form from his MS version. Beside being bigger, it has a different shape and an added layer (similar to what Madara's complete form has, you know those things on arms that look like tags), even it's eyes have a different shape.

    Speaking of Susanoo's eyes, do you think that it works like with Rinnegan's summons, you know shared vision ?



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